Microsoft Vista News & Information Thread

[Spur]

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/07/26/vista.sales.hit.60.million/

Microsoft is now saying that it has sold over 60 million licenses for its latest operating system, Windows Vista. Reuters writes that the figure was announced at Microsoft's annual meeting with financial analysts, and is the most recent data available from the company since Vista hit the 40 million mark in May

The announcement appears to confirm a permanent slowdown in Vista sales, which ran to 20 million in the first month, but were halved for both March and April. This rate remained relatively constant from the beginning of May until the end of June.

[ultimatetailgater]

Vista is garbage. I know it works fine for some people but as a power user I don't see one benefit over XP. It's slower, has driver problems, doesnt work with a lot of software, UAC is annoying and worthless. The only gimick it has is DX10 which still performs slower than DX9. Also even DX9 games run about 25% slower on vista than XP.

memory hog (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3044)
Service Pack 1 delayed (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027459)
DX10 performance is horrible right now (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3029)


Windows Vista Melenium Second Edition is nothing but a prettier interface with a light bump in security and DX10(which hasn't show me anything to impress me yet). I hope they can make some improvements and driver/software support gets better but it seems like all they did was strip everything that was cool out of "Longhorn" rename it Vista and throw it on the shelf so they can force everyone to adopt it and fill their pockets again.

Sorry if I hijacked your thread Spur. Microsoft just pisses me off sometimes.

[Spur]

I am not a fan of it as well but thought this was news about it doing well

[ultimatetailgater]

If you have a little time to kill sometime these are pretty good and funny breakdowns of vista problems by one of the top IT consultants around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HELrxLdP85c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ3wuvg4sGE

[diehardgamecock]

don't like vista.

[uscnoklahoma]

I have both Vistas Pro and Office 2007 Pro...have yet to install them...not sure when I will but it sure will be partioned on the HD so I can boot either XP or Vista.

[JAYBEZ]

I don't think you can expect to have a new operating system come out and make everyone happy right away. You have to allow time for the rest of the world to catch up.

You have software issues because OS are built for future use, not really for backwards compatibility. While yes, it is important to insure older programs still work; this OS is going to be around a long time and is built more for what is on the horizon.

Every complaint you may see is exactly what was said when XP came out and ME before that. Now you praise what was once problematic.

Give it time. As software is built on the newer technology, you wont see the compatibility issues.

[gAmkok]

If you have a little time to kill sometime these are pretty good and funny breakdowns of vista problems by one of the top IT consultants around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HELrxLdP85c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ3wuvg4sGE

He's verbose - but obviously knows what he's talking about.

[ultimatetailgater]

ME was just total garbage. XP however, while having its share of problems was nothing like this. For one it certainly didn't need a machine many times more powerful than windows 98 capable PC did just to run much less run well. As for longevity Microsoft has already annouced the next version of windows code named "7" which is supposed to come out around 2010 so I don't think Vista will be around that long. It's nothing more than a filler and a mess just like ME was.

I've followed Vista since it was called Longhorn and was in early alpha. They have removed or crippled many of the features that would have made it better. Driver/software support isn't entirely M$'s fault but Vista is very hard to code for because of all the DRM(thanks RIAA and MPAA you suck). I upgraded to Windows XP from Windows 98SE in 2001 aside from my virus scan and one other program everything worked perfectly in XP. Vista on the other hand doesn't play well with many things and don't even get me started on the 64-bit version. Vista was also 2 years behind schedule and they have had ample time to work these kinds of kinks out.

I'm by no means a programmer but I understand how they work and how coding can be affected. Vista is a nightmare for game makers, driver makers and etc. Vista is poorly optimized and still loaded with bugs and Chris Pirillo(guy in those videos) said Vista is still beta software. It's no where near ready for the public yet.

Also XP offered many advantages over ME. A new file system unless you used server 2000 (NT file system), lots of secuity updates, DX9 support(which actually performed better than DX8 unlike DX10 vs DX9). A better start menu and windows explorer, much improved networking features.

Vista on the other hand is a jumbled up mess. Even the most basic of power user commands requires dealing with UAC at every turn unless you disable it which kind of defeats the purpose of having it. The meuns are poorly organized and you have to deal with a wizard to do anything(which is annoying for power users). Unless you have a pretty beefy PC then Vista won't even run smoothly much less run new games and photo/video editing software smoothly.Besides the fancy new Aero interface, some minor networking and security tweaks and DX10 Vista offers no improvement over XP.

Right now unless you just want to say hey I got vista because its newer there is no reason to get it. Driver support isn't good, most older software has trouble if it runs at all, DRM is all over Vista and can cause even "legal" multimedia to malfunction(read up on OpenAL sound and all the headaches sound card makers are having with Vista.)

XP outperforms it on similar hardware and a middle end PC with XP will outperform a high end PC with Vista. Its a memory hog(superfetch is poorly optimized and has no options to customize it). Games run slower on it, ya blame drivers on that but Vista sure isn't easy to make drivers for.

I follow the IT world pretty closely and I've yet to see anyone not on Micrsofts payroll say anything good about Vista.

[smtrgmcock]

Im a rising freshman at USC next year, and shopping around for a computer. Before i buy anything though, can anyone give some feedback on Microsoft Vista? Personally, Id rather stuck with XP, but I've been told that USC will soon be Vista only.

[eat_sleep_breathe_USC]

I haven't heard that one, but I only have a semester left so it won't effect me either way. I haven't heard anything in that regard, but some of their security programs may be vista only soon. Wouldn't surprise me either way...I'd personally go with a Mac, lol, but I'm not a big fan of microsoft right now (360 bit the dust...).

I dont' know that your going to find many brand new computers with XP on it still. You may not have a choice but to go with Vista. If you can help it def. grab XP. Good luck with that either way. Where are you staying your freshmen year?

[Spur]

Stick with XP.

[ultimatetailgater]

XP. Don't even think about getting that memory hogging, bloated, buggy, ugly, and utterly overpriced pile of crap called Vista. I'd be glad to give you some more technical info if you'd like but thats the short and sweet version lol.

more info (http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=42136)

[kosimpsononthestop]

as a student, vista is a waste. xp is the way to go .

[MBSpur]

i was thinking about getting an apple, what about them?

[Spur]

i was thinking about getting an apple, what about them?

I did that a year ago and think it was the best computer buy I have ever gotten.

Year and a few months later and not one problem with my MacBookPro

[smtrgmcock]

Thanks for the help. I'm going to columbia on saturday to hopefully take advantage of the tax free weekend and find something good. Every model I've looked at comes with Vista, but from all that I've gathered, I may just have to pick up XP. Thanks again.

oh and I'll be in Columbia Hall next year

[uscnoklahoma]

Man, just look around the school....I promise you there is someone selling a great laptop with XP on it to get one with Vista...you could probably get it for $300 too. College students are notorious for selling stuff cheap. I saw, this year, a 52" Big Screen sale for $50....they didn't want to mess with moving it. I would beat my child's arse if they did something that stupid.

And for the record...I have a Compaq notebook and have had zero problems for 3+ years now.

[eat_sleep_breathe_USC]

Thanks for the help. I'm going to columbia on saturday to hopefully take advantage of the tax free weekend and find something good. Every model I've looked at comes with Vista, but from all that I've gathered, I may just have to pick up XP. Thanks again.

oh and I'll be in Columbia Hall next year

You'll like it at Columbia Hall, met some of my best friends there. And it beats the hell out of the towers that I stayed in my freshmen year. They aren't there anymore, luckily for you.

[gamecockpride]

USC has a deal with Dell, where you can get a laptop from them for a few hundred cheaper than buying from the store. They have bundles that the univeristy recommends to them that you can get that will have XP.


www.delluniversity.com (http://www.cockytalk.com/www.delluniversity.com)

[impirius]

A few notes on buying laptops:

- Tax-free weekend is good, but unless you see a great deal in the store, you'll probably have better luck with the online deals at dealnews.com and techbargains.com.

- If you want a Windows laptop, Dell usually has the best deals, although you can find some good deals on HP laptops in stores.

- I've been using Vista for a few days now, and despite the improvements, it's kinda lame. I wouldn't go out of my way to find a system with XP, but I certainly wouldn't feel bad about getting a system with XP installed, either.

- If you're feeling adventurous, look into getting a Mac laptop; student discounts knock about $200 off the price. I used a MacBook Pro for 6 months at my last job, and it was far and away the best computer I've ever used. They'll run Windows as well, if there's one or two apps you need to run every once in a while. I'm strongly considering buying one for myself now.

[JAYBEZ]

Stick with XP.


I like the guy with the Mac computer, iPod, and apple belt buckle not approving of a microsoft product.

Very out of the ordinary.

[ultimatetailgater]

I never use apple or linux but I still think Vista is utter crap.

[MACXIMVS]

vista is crazy.....you have to convert files so others can open them

[Spur]

I like the guy with the Mac computer, iPod, and apple belt buckle not approving of a microsoft product.

Very out of the ordinary.
Just calling a spade, a spade. Vista blows. Will be good in 2-3 years after all the kinks get worked out. Have had plenty of exposure to it at work and at my parents home. Mother wishes she never installed it because of terrible it is....thus I went back and installed XP.

FYI, I have XP on both my Mac's. I like to give Microsoft a few years window between operating systems before I enjoy them. :lol:

[ultimatetailgater]

By the time they fix Vista, Windows "7" will be out.

[SpuR48]

By the time they fix Vista, Windows "7" will be out.

I think it may have been you that suggested tailgater, but it seems like xp = 98se while vista = ME. It's like they're just squeezing wallets until the next best OS comes out. I'd definitely go with XP for the time being. Oh, and HP notebooks are pretty good if you're looking for a laptop. Got a great one for $1500 bucks completely loaded. Unless you're looking to do some light to moderate gaming though, you could probably get a nice one for under $900

[TheMule]

Spend a few extra bucks and get a business class laptop. They're made much better.

[cboom4250]

as far as vista goes, USC has just recently "corrected" their windows login programs to be compatible with Vista. I've heard that there are many problems with it though.
If you must have a windows system, either find one used or get a new one and buy a copy of XP on ebay or something.

If you want my recommendation, go with the Apple. It is the best computer available (in my opinion), and login at USC is soooo easy. For example:
on Vista or XP, you must download USC antivirus, Cisco CleanAccess and other programs to even get online in the dorms. (it's even worse for wireless, you must have what was stated above, Wireless VPN, and another program)
With Apple computers, you simply open the internet browser, type in your username and password, and you're online (same way with wireless).
for the money, go with apple, but it just depends on what you want.

[CockyHawkkz]

i love vista im using a mac now and they are similar but i want to tell u that the mac is SMARTER

o yeah i have a ibook g4

[FoghornLeghornCock]

Analysts happy, users annoyed with Vista upgrade http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/software/2007-07-14-microsoft-vista_N.htm


Enlarge image Enlarge By Andrei Pungovschi, AP USA Today
Chris Pirillo, originally one of Microsoft's "Windows enthusiasts," posted a 52-minute video rant on YouTube in March, complaining about its new Vista operating system.
By Jessica Mintz, Associated Press
SEATTLE — Chris Pirillo leaned away from his webcam and pointed to his printer/scanner/fax machine, which stopped scanning and faxing after he installed Microsoft's new Windows Vista operating system.

"I can't live in Vista if the software that I use in my life for productivity does not work," said Pirillo, in the third minute of a 52-minute video he posted on YouTube.

Nearly six months after it launched, gripes over what doesn't work with Vista continue, eclipsing positive buzz over the program's improved desktop search, graphics and security.

With Vista now shipping on most new computers, it's all but guaranteed to become the world's dominant PC operating system — eventually. For now, some users are either learning to live with workarounds or sticking with Vista's predecessor, Windows XP.

Pirillo is geekier than the average user. He runs a network of technology blogs called Lockergnome, and was one of several "Windows enthusiasts" Microsoft asked for Vista feedback early on.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: Microsoft | Windows | Analysts | Youtube | PCS | Windows XP | XP

Still, Vista tested even Pirillo's savvy. He fixed the hobbled printer and other problems by installing VMware, a program that lets him run XP within Vista. But when his trial copy expired, he decided the solution was too clunky — and too expensive.

He "upgraded," as he called it, back to XP.

Users' early complaints aren't a threat to Microsoft's dominance in operating systems. The various flavors of Windows run 93% of PCs worldwide, according to the research group IDC. Last fiscal year, Windows accounted for about a third of Microsoft's total revenue of $44.3 billion.

Industry analysts say Vista adoption is plodding along as expected, with most consumers and businesses switching over as they replace old hardware with new. IDC analyst Al Gillen said he expects Vista will be installed on the vast majority of computers in about five years, the time it took for XP to reach 84% of PCs.

It's too early for industry watchers to know exactly how many people are using Vista. At the same time, it's hard to gauge Vista's success by comparing it to XP, because the PC market has grown tremendously in the last six years.

In early May, Microsoft said it had distributed 40 million copies of Vista, which costs $199 to $399 depending on the version. But it did not specify the number actually sold through to consumers, versus those shipped to computer makers like Hewlett-Packard and Dell.

Analysts noted that as many as 15 million of those copies could represent upgrade coupons given to XP buyers during the holidays, before Vista went on sale. Microsoft would not say how many of those customers installed the new system, but Forrester Research analyst J.P. Gownder estimated just over 12 million U.S. consumers would have Vista by the end of the year, out of about 235 million PCs in the country.

As for the compatibility problems, 2 million devices — such as cameras and printers — now work with Vista, said Dave Wascha, a director in the Windows Client group.

"We are way ahead with Windows Vista right now than where we were when we shipped Windows XP," he said.

Still, it's an uphill battle: Vista interacts differently with programs and peripherals than previous versions of Windows, and some companies have chosen not to spend time and money updating older products. Printer makers, Wascha noted, draw profits from ink cartridges and services, and have little motivation to invest in updating drivers for old hardware.

As a result, many early adopters have made a sport of grumbling about the one device or program they still can't get to work.

And they've ranted about other things, from how hard it is to open Vista's snap-together plastic retail box, to what they see as arbitrary decisions on Microsoft's part to hide common settings and features.

One of the most common annoyances: Microsoft's user account control feature, designed to protect unwitting Web surfers from spyware and viruses that would otherwise install themselves on the hard drive.

Dan Cohen, chief executive officer of Silicon Valley start-up Pageflakes, bought a Vista laptop a couple of months ago. After one too many pop-up windows warning of possible threats from the Internet, Cohen switched the control feature off.

Now he gets pop-ups warning him that turning the feature off is dangerous.

"I feel more secure — and more irritated," he said. When Cohen went to buy his wife a new computer in April, he stuck with XP on a laptop from Lenovo.

Some analysts say Microsoft hasn't put enough energy into marketing Vista's benefits to consumers. But it may also be the case that Vista's biggest benefits are ones that cause average PC users' eyes to glaze over, like improved security.

"Everybody wants there to be a repeat of Windows 98 — the excitement, the sales volume, the rate of growth and everything else," said Michael Cherry, an analyst for the independent research group Directions on Microsoft.

At the time of Windows 98's launch, broadband access to the Internet was catching fire and consumers were pumped up about getting a faster, cheaper computer.

There's no such compelling reason to buy Vista, said Gownder, the Forrester analyst.

Businesses, like consumers, are in no hurry to upgrade. Before the business version of Vista landed late last year, a Forrester survey of about 1,600 companies found that 31% planned to upgrade within a year, and 22% more planned to be running it within two years.

Most businesses think those plans now seem too aggressive, said Forrester analyst Benjamin Gray.

While corporate technology departments are looking forward to some of Vista's security features and easier administration tools, there's little reason to switch if more secure PCs end up choking on a critical piece of software.

"They're waiting for Microsoft to bless it with a service pack," said Gray, referring to a major software update that fixes bugs.

The University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, a member of Microsoft's Vista Technical Adoption Program, started evaluating Vista in January 2006. Today, only 300 of the hospital's 30,000 desktop computers run the software.

Karen Malik, associate director of technical services, said the rollout is behind schedule because several key programs still aren't compatible, including patient scheduling software. Malik knows the software vendors will catch up to Vista — someday. In the meantime, she's not rushing.

"We know eventually we're going to need to move to this operating system," Malik said. "It's not really an option."
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

I guess the one thing I have learned about technology is don't be an early adopter there is usually a lot of annoyance and glitches involved.

[ultimatetailgater]

I posted two of his videos in another thread. That guy knows what he's talking about.

[impirius]

I'm about fed up with Vista now after using it for a week. The network connection cuts out randomly... and it's a wired connection!

[cboom4250]

I'm about fed up with Vista now after using it for a week. The network connection cuts out randomly... and it's a wired connection!

my sister has had it for two days. we are "upgrading" to XP (as Chris Pirillo states in his videos).

[purebredcock]

i have it on my hp and it works fine...

[TheMule]

I'm about fed up with Vista now after using it for a week. The network connection cuts out randomly... and it's a wired connection!

I knew you'd come around. :rotfl:

General rule of thumb is wait at least for the first service pack unless you're just wanting to play with the new OS and don't mind reinstalling the old one. Let someone else be the guiena pig.

[ultimatetailgater]

In the case of ME and Vista the general rule no longer applies. Please see rule #2

2.)inset cd/dvd into 10 sheet or higher quality paper shredder, reinstall previous operating system and wait for next operating system to be released.

[uscjd2004]

Why would anyone want a PC for home use? BUY A MAC.

[cockinorlando]

I'm a rising freshman as well and I got XP. I think they gave us something about which to use in a pamphlet during orientation

[TheMule]

In the case of ME and Vista the general rule no longer applies. Please see rule #2

2.)inset cd/dvd into 10 sheet or higher quality paper shredder, reinstall previous operating system and wait for next operating system to be released.

:lol: Personally I use them for skeet shooting. Just have one of the younguns frisbee them up in the air and blow them away with the ole 12 gauge. Wish AOHell still sent CDs out.

Talked with the IT guy over the school district lask week about Vista. He's hoping & praying that Microsoft will scrap it and start producing XP again. Fat chance of that.

[Spur]

http://news.com.com/Running+the+numbers+on+Vista/2100-1016_3-6207375.html

Standalone unit sales of Vista at U.S. retail stores were down 59.7 percent compared with Windows XP, during each product's first six months on store shelves, according to NPD Group. In terms of revenue, sales are also down, but the drop has been less steep, at 41.5 percent. The findings largely mirror the sales pattern NPD saw for Vista during its first week on the market in January.

Sales of standalone copies of Windows Vista are down nearly 60 percent compared with XP's first six months, according to a new report.

"It's just not doing well," NPD analyst Chris Swenson said of Vista's performance at retail stores, though he added that most people get their operating system on new PCs, with only a minority of customers purchasing boxed copies. The report, titled "Windows Vista Still Underperforming in U.S. Retail," will be sent to clients Friday.

[Ga_Gamecock]

i dont know much about vista, but the guys at Bestbuy told me they are steering customers away from it - said it really clogs up the works, taking up much more mem on a laptop ...

[uscnoklahoma]

I prefer XP. I don't see any advantages in Vista from my short 5 days of using it. Maybe I haven't found the good stuff yet. It seems to be more visual than anything. Of course I only paid $10 for the student/faculty CD of Vista Business. I guess I got my money's worth. LOL!

[gamecockgal]

I am using XP.. but at least where I live, if you buy a new computer, it *WILL* come with Vista, no questions asked. I dont thik any computers are being shipped with XP..
(of course if you are smart, or have a smart friend, and a copy of XP, you can uninstall Vista and reinstall XP, but most normal users wouldnt go through the trouble and expense.)
I go to schol and work int he computer field, and I have seen VERY mixed reviews for Vista. My dad uses it, and he likes it, but he is one of the few. I would love to get a new comp, but Vista is the main reason that I havent.
I dont want it, now or ever.

[Jolly Roger]

Ubuntu FTW!

[ultimatetailgater]

Ubuntu FTW!
Ya if you dont mind messing with WINE to try and play any decent games.

Vista is just total crap. I've explained why so many times to so many people I'm almost sick of talking about it.

[TheMule]

(of course if you are smart, or have a smart friend, and a copy of XP, you can uninstall Vista and reinstall XP, but most normal users wouldnt go through the trouble and expense.)

I did that for a customer and took half a day finding XP drivers. Finally wound up putting a sound card in it because the driver on the motherboard web site didn't work.

[ultimatetailgater]

I am using XP.. but at least where I live, if you buy a new computer, it *WILL* come with Vista, no questions asked. I dont thik any computers are being shipped with XP..
(of course if you are smart, or have a smart friend, and a copy of XP, you can uninstall Vista and reinstall XP, but most normal users wouldnt go through the trouble and expense.)
I go to schol and work int he computer field, and I have seen VERY mixed reviews for Vista. My dad uses it, and he likes it, but he is one of the few. I would love to get a new comp, but Vista is the main reason that I havent.
I dont want it, now or ever.

Most custom order sites: DELL, HP, Gateway and on the higher end, Falcon Northwest, Velocity Gaming, and etc will still allow you to choose if you order online. If you do go buy one in the store just get the basic version, format and install XP. Just be sure you can locate the drivers for your hardware on XP.

The average user likes Vista because it can do what they need and they don't understand the techical drawbacks but I've yet to see a Power User or enthusiast say anything good about it.

[lawdog100]

XP is the ticket.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[diehardgamecock]

vista sucks.



i like xp just fine.

[Spur]

I put XP on two of my computers at work/home and enjoy it.

I would never put Vista on my home computer...AGAIN

That was a mistake

[sc455]

i have vista..it seems much simpler to work with. to find things.etc

[ColaCock]

Personally I don't think Vista sucks, I think it is just getting a lot of hell from the ones who were so eager to be skeptical or those who love to find flaws in everything. I don't think that is the reason it isn't doing well- I feel that the basic consumer just wasn't ready for it. XP works just fine for the most part and really only needs minor improvements to be a great OS...they should have invested money into that route if you ask me.

My friend has Vista on her laptop and while it does seem to bog down every now and then, it is certainly more visually appealing than XP. Most OSs aren't perfect when they come out anyways, hence SP2.

[smtrgmcock]

Vista works just fine if you have ample RAM (memory). The thing is, to just run Vista you need atleast 1 GB of RAM, and that is to just simply run it. When I went to Best Buy this past summer to get a computer for school, they were all comming with Vista, but with only 512 MB or 1 GB of RAM. I updated my RAM to 2 GB, and it runs just fine. So, if you're looking into purchasing a new computer, which more than likely will come with Vista, I urge you, update your RAM to 2 GB.

[ultimatetailgater]

My friend has Vista on her laptop and while it does seem to bog down every now and then, it is certainly more visually appealing than XP. Most OSs aren't perfect when they come out anyways, hence SP2.
You can change XP to look anyway you like. There are icon packs, custom themes, heck you can even redo the entire GUI if you want. For the average user ya it works ok but it doesn't run any better than XP. Aero is nothing but a little gimmick. O boy a 3D desktop now I can't live without that...


DX 10 is terrible and gets smoked in every benchmark out there by DX9 and DX9 runs about 25% faster on XP that it does on Vista. Vista doesn't support alot of 3rd party software that people use for everyday work. Ya if you're the average internet surfer and microsoft word user no big deal but for people like Chris Pirillo and other Power Users. Vista also uses more memory in everything not just the super fetch caching but even games user about 25% more memory just to run than they do in XP and they don't run any faster or better. In fact the run slower and are more buggy. Also most drivers are still a mess especially sound and video drivers. Not to mention that Vista doesn't support Direct 3D sound(Due to its massive and bloated DRM) so unless you have an Creative X-Fi card and want to mess around with Alchemy then you can forget getting hardware sound in your older games and by older I mean games made last year and back.

If Vista works fine for you then great but I don't see any real world performance benefits over XP and I certainly don't see any reason to throw down another $230-$400 for it when XP runs just as well and in most cases better on the software I use.

Sorry if I was a little harsh. I've just seen so many people switch to Vista in my profession and then are so sorry they did. I want to make sure people know what they're getting into if they do switch.

[Spur's Addiction]

XP works just fine for me. I don't see a need to upgrade.

[ColaCock]

You can change XP to look anyway you like. There are icon packs, custom themes, heck you can even redo the entire GUI if you want. For the average user ya it works ok but it doesn't run any better than XP. Aero is nothing but a little gimmick. O boy a 3D desktop now I can't live without that...


DX 10 is terrible and gets smoked in every benchmark out there by DX9 and DX9 runs about 25% faster on XP that it does on Vista. Vista doesn't support alot of 3rd party software that people use for everyday work. Ya if you're the average internet surfer and microsoft word user no big deal but for people like Chris Pirillo and other Power Users. Vista also uses more memory in everything not just the super fetch caching but even games user about 25% more memory just to run than they do in XP and they don't run any faster or better. In fact the run slower and are more buggy. Also most drivers are still a mess especially sound and video drivers. Not to mention that Vista doesn't support Direct 3D sound(Due to its massive and bloated DRM) so unless you have an Creative X-Fi card and want to mess around with Alchemy then you can forget getting hardware sound in your older games and by older I mean games made last year and back.

If Vista works fine for you then great but I don't see any real world performance benefits over XP and I certainly don't see any reason to throw down another $230-$400 for it when XP runs just as well and in most cases better on the software I use.

Sorry if I was a little harsh. I've just seen so many people switch to Vista in my profession and then are so sorry they did. I want to make sure people know what they're getting into if they do switch.

Well I never said I supported Vista, I just said I didn't think it was worth getting upset over and bashing- XP is certainly the better choice right now. Oh I am familiar with being able to change the layout of XP as well, my ex girlfriend wanted a mac so I pretty much made it look exactly like one and she loved that. I guess I was just talking about the initial appearance that the common user with interact with.

[ultimatetailgater]

Vista Rules!!! (http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Provides+XP+Downgrade+for+Unhappy+Vista+ Users/article9027.htm)

[geekcognito]

Wow. Haha. XP pro all the way here.

[lawdog100]

The link goes to a page that does nothing.

EDIT: It's working now.

[4|_3|<54/\/|)3R]

Anyone get a blue screen every 3 weeks or so while playing a game? Has DirectX 10 been known to cause anything like this?

[ultimatetailgater]

Vista Sucks!!!

It's the most unstable and resource hungry OS ever created. They should just rename it to Windows Millennium R2.

[4|_3|<54/\/|)3R]

Yea, I'm beginning to realize how bad it is. I'm stuck with it though..
I updated my graphics card drivers and my games seem to be running fine. Hopefully no more crashes.

OT: have you played Company of Heroes or World in Conflict?
I just got both of them and I can't stop playing them. WiC is probably one of the best RTS's out there =)

[Spur]

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/microsofts_windows_vista_dog_slow_even_outperforme d_by_ancient_xp/Microsoft’s Windows Vista dog slow; even outperformed by ancient XP



"In the latest Mac versus PC ad, that put-upon Windows guy quietly concedes he's 'downgrading' from Vista to XP. He may have good reason: new tests show that the older XP runs common productivity tasks significantly faster than Microsoft's newest operating system," Paul McDougall reports for InformationWeek.

"Researchers at Devil Mountain Software, a Florida-based developer of performance management tools, have posted data from their most recent Windows performance tests -- and Vista, even after it's been upgraded to the new Service Pack 1 beta package, is shown to be a laggard," McDougall reports.

"Devil Mountain researchers ran a mix of tests comparing existing versions of the operating systems -- the original Vista and XP SP2 -- and versions that had been patched with the latest updates -- Vista SP1 beta and XP SP3 beta. Tests were also run on machines with 1 Gbyte and 2 Gbytes of memory," McDougall reports.

"Windows XP trounced Windows Vista in all tests -- regardless of the versions used or the amount of memory running on the computer. In fact, XP proved to be roughly twice as fast as Vista in most of the tests," McDougall reports.

"Microsoft rival Apple is seizing on the Vista backlash to promote its new Leopard operating system. Its latest ad is an attempt to portray Microsoft as a company that's tone deaf to user concerns about Vista," McDougall reports. "'Ask not what Vista can do for you, but what you can do for Vista,' says the PC guy, posing as a politico. Given the latest research, an increasing number of Windows users may end up seeking a new candidate."

[Spur]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/23/vista-sp1-due-on-february-15th/

Vista SP1 has already been previewed, gone through a Release Candidate cycle, and had a changelog released -- so all that's left is for Microsoft to hit us with it, right? Not so fast, Sparky -- according to various sources, you're still going to have wait three more weeks to get your hands on that hot SP1 action: circle February 15th on your Ballmer / Gates pinup calendar and start counting the days. Of course, Microsoft isn't confirming anything one way or another other than Q108, so don't get too excited, but after all we've been through together, we can't imagine the Redmond crew not giving us a (late) Valentine's Day present -- we're like, totally serious, right?

[USCya]

usually it is best practice to not jump on the band wagon of any new release until SP1 bu tin the case of Vista might consider not jumping on it at all and wait for the new release.

Vista reminds me of Millinuem....

[ultimatetailgater]

usually it is best practice to not jump on the band wagon of any new release until SP1 bu tin the case of Vista might consider not jumping on it at all and wait for the new release.

Vista reminds me of Millinuem....

I might consider getting Vista after service pack 10
:grin:

[TheMule]

It'll still be a PoS.

[acejrock]

I have 4 PCs that I personally use between work and personal use. 3 of the 4 are XP sp2 and one is vista business. Vista is terrible and the SP1 is not gonna fix it.

[Spur]

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Has-Microsoft-Disavowed-Vista/?kc=EWKNLBOE020208STR1

"It seems that Microsoft is already giving up on Vista and is setting up business users to switch from XP to Windows 7," Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols writes for eWeek.

"Technically, Vista is pure misery. It eats system resources like an elephant does peanuts, Windows applications break and its so-called improved security is a joke. I know it. You know it. Even Microsoft's most devoted yes-men know it--although they won't admit it--and perhaps Microsoft knows it as well," Vaughan-Nichols writes.

Vaughan-Nichols asks, "What else can explain why Microsoft is now leaking news about Windows 7, the next version of Windows?"

[COCKDIESEL]

It eats system resources like an elephant does peanuts,

Did you know that elephants don't really like peanuts. So does that mean that it doesn't eat resources at all?

[The Yancey]

I'm happy with XP.

[uscnoklahoma]

I was too until my computer crashed due to Acronis...so I just got my copy of Vista for $10 and installed it....I hate it. I think I am going back to XP Pro.

[womfalcs3]

Development of future products starts even before the about-to-be-released product is finished. They most likely started development of Windows 7 a year or so before Vista launched.

It's the same with other software development. Video games and sequels are done this way... and Firefox is done this way. It also has some prevalence in hardware development. For example, Microsoft and Sony have already started work on their next video game console releases. Sony started work on slimming down the PS3 before the PS3 even launched. Microsoft is already in the process of finalizing their CPU/GPU specs for the next Xbox.


The main feature of Vista that I was most excited about was the new filing system (they obviously canned that). The other stuff can be done on XP... even with free 3rd party software. I love Windows XP... by love, I mean LOVE. As to Vista, it will never be a failure. As long as PC's are being sold, so will Windows.

[NXS]

I think its a combination of things. The fact that many new Vista users were happier with its XP predecessor and the fact that the corporate users are slow to embrace Vista (my company decided to stay with XP), Microsoft may be putting the rush on Windows 7. It probably doesn't help that Apple's recent OSX Leopard launch has Mac's running Windows (XP and Vista) more reliably and faster than many PC's. I am sure the next Windows release will incorporate many of the same features as Apple's OSX, at least I hope so.

[headdenz]

My laptop I just bought came with Vista AWEFUL!!!

[YouCanNeverTell]

I really have no problem with Vista....

[TheMule]

Watch how many PCs Vista service pack 1 screws up.

[FlorenceCock]

Vista has made the sales of XP almost double. Computer shops around the nation are advertising that they remove Vista and install XP.....
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/02/xpvistasigntwo.jpg

[2000grad]

I purposely bought a laptop without Vista

[Crazy_Gamecock]

That is one of the reasons I am very skeptical about buying a new tablet pc, because I am fine with XP and I don't want any of the problems with Vista. I think I am going to try to find a Dell Latitude on their outlet site with XP before I make any decision on a new one.

[The Dude]

My brother was a beta tester for Vista before it was released, and based on everything he told me I never had any intention of ever trying it.

why wouldnt microsoft try to put out an OS that uses resources more efficiently?

[diehardgamecock]

vista blows.

[acejrock]

vista blows.

Yes, yes it does.

[LollerCock]

vista worked well on my computer, everything went like it should have except for counter-strike. unfortunately i didn't want to sacrifice CS so i reinstalled xp. =D
I have a pretty high-powered computer, so that may be why it's different in my case.

[palmettogirlusc]

if they are rushing windows 7, that doesn't sound like a good thing to me. usually when they rush something out like that it turns out worse than the problem they are trying to fix.

[CockySpaniel]

If you don't have at least a dual core processor yoiu won't be happy with vista.
If you do have a dual core processor it's a great system!

[carolinafan53186]

A lot of old school games won't work on Vista either

[FlorenceCock]

If you don't have at least a dual core processor yoiu won't be happy with vista.
If you do have a dual core processor it's a great system!
That has a little bit to do with it but really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things. The fact is that Vista is simply a POS with to many problems. If you have a dual core cpu Vista can take advantage of that and do some additional things that a regular CPU can not do but that still does not fix the fact that Vista is a total and utter POS.

[sc455]

i love vista..the firewall is great

[Spur]

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/02/08/analysts.keep.xp.til.09/

Microsoft should keep Windows XP on the market until at least 2009, two major research firms are suggesting. Sales of the operating system, which was launched in 2001, are currently set to end on June 30th of this year, according to InfoWorld; this in turn is actually an extension, as Microsoft originally set a deadline for December 31st, 2007. Neither date would have been enough, says Richard Jones, a VP with the Burton Group. "A good rule of thumb in any OS transition is that you have to have the original and new products available for at least two years to handle customer needs," he comments.

XP's replacement, Windows Vista, debuted only in January of last year. Jones argues that Microsoft's transition schedule has been overly aggressive, mainly as a result of having to delay the release of Vista in the first place. "Microsoft is up against a rock, with Vista coming out seven years after XP's release. But it's their fault it took seven years, not my fault," he complains, suggesting that customers should not be made to suffer for corporate timetables.

A research VP with Gartner, Michael Silver, echoes these views. "It would be wise for XP to be available until the end of 2008," he says. The real issue however is said to be the time needed for third-party applications to release for Vista, among these homegrown ones and replacements for products from defunct companies.

Though it has yet to make a decision, Microsoft says that it may be willing to extend XP sales, based on feedback from partners and the public at large. A research VP at IDC, Al Gillen, notes that past deadline extensions have included Windows 2000 and NT Workstation. He recommends against online petitions though, proposing instead that customers should harangue Microsoft through its official channels, such as its feedback website.

[FoghornLeghornCock]

The New york Times has a good article for those looking to switch to Vista or already have it. It has memos from inside Microsoft that show this operating system may not play well with others http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/business/09digi.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[CockySpaniel]

The security enhancements has raised incompatibilty issues, but they are still nowhere near the incompatibilities of Mac & Linux software.

[The Yancey]

No different than the compatibility issues when we switched from DOS to Windows to WIN-95 to WIN-XP. The various and sundry software and peripheral makers had plenty of lead time to update their drivers.

[GotSpurrier82]

Either Vista is screwing up or it's Windows Media Player. When I go to the Video Page or gamecocklife.com or anything like that, the videos are all choppy and blurry on my media player. When I had XP Pro, they were perfect. Anyone know if I can change the choppiness and blurriness? I tried to let it load completely so it'd play more smoothly (like with YouTube), but WMP just sits there.

[cack]

prob vista ... it blows

[Spur's Addiction]

Reinstall XP.

[JAYBEZ]

Or maybe you could do something less drastic, that isn't suggested by a couple Mac fans... Update your media drivers.

See if any of your players need a new patch.

[SNEEZ]

i dont' have a problem and i have vista...but whenver I play downloaded songs in Win. Media player the last 15 seconds it skips once or twice

[Spur's Addiction]

I'm not a mac fan - lol. I have never bought any apple products but whatever. I just have heard bad things about Vista and see no point in getting it.

[ultimatetailgater]

Vista is a pile of crap

[SNEEZ]

Mac...what? VISTA is Windows...or am I missing something?

[ultimatetailgater]

Mac...what? VISTA is Windows...or am I missing something?

I believe he was suggesting we are MAC fans for not liking Vista.

[GotSpurrier82]

I'd much rather have a Mac, and give Bill Gates and his anti-Christ software the finger.

[Spur]

http://www.news.com/Microsoft-Vista-feature-designed-to-annoy-users/2100-1016_3-6237191.html

SAN FRANCISCO--A Microsoft manager has said that one of the security features in Vista was deliberately designed to "annoy users" to put pressure on third-party software makers to make their applications more secure.

David Cross, a product unit manager at Microsoft, was the group program manager in charge of designing User Account Control (UAC), which, when activated, requires people to run Vista (http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9905831-56.html) in standard user mode rather than having administrator privileges, and offers a prompt if they try to install a program.

"The reason we put UAC into the (Vista) platform was to annoy users--I'm serious," said Cross, speaking at the RSA Conference (http://www.news.com/RSA-2008-Blanketing-security/2009-7355_3-6236457.html) here Thursday.

[SNEEZ]

:-?

[TheGuitarCock]

http://www.news.com/Microsoft-Vista-feature-designed-to-annoy-users/2100-1016_3-6237191.html

I was wondering about that. It does that to me ALL THE TIME.

Well, atleast I don't have a MAC.

[Spartan]

Actually, all Macs and other operating systems have this feature, and have had it for years. Microsoft is just slow to catch up to everyone else. It is somewhat annoying, but it prevents viruses from installing things on your computer without your knowledge. And if you think about it, how often do you install programs on your computer? It only ads about 3-5 seconds to the process.

[CockySpaniel]

UAC is what most of the Vista haters complain about most, but it is the thing that keeps Linux and Macs safe! Not to mention vendors balking at installing proper hardware to run vista at a reasonable price.

[theuscerock]

When I make movies or covert youtube videos on my laptop...I GET NO SOUND!!!!!! I've tried several Codex's but nothing works...
Any clue????

[TaterHater1984]

I don't think that's Vista. I've never had that problem.

[YouCanNeverTell]

I don't think that's Vista. I've never had that problem.
It's Vista...Vista is the cause of all problems...Just ask the Mac users.

[SNEEZ]

Vista has the AIDS virus as programming code.

[TheGuitarCock]

Works for me.

[gAmkok]

It's Vista...Vista is the cause of all problems...Just ask the Mac users.
Yep. He's right.

[theuscerock]

any ideas....

[YouCanNeverTell]

any ideas....
Are you playing them in Windows Media Player? If so try another program. If not make sure you have the proper drivers for your sound card. You may also want to try updating your windows media player or deleting it entirely and installing the newest version.

I had an issue with sound on my old lap top and it was my drivers.

[Gamecock_Aholic]

...plug in your speakers....























haha, just kidding man!

[theuscerock]

none of the programs give me sound when i bring a mpg over. Works fine on my XP desktops... I've installed a couple codexs with no change...Installed and uninstalled several programs. Really need the sound for a big youth retreat at the end of this month. I really hate to have to take it somewhere, but might have to.

[GotSpurrier82]

I hate Vista. I hate Bill Gates. If I ever get a Mac, I will leave my wonderful, worked-just-fine-with-XP-but-sucks-with-Vista computer in a pile after bashing it with a baseball on Windows' doorstep, with a post-it note that says, "Fix me now, bitches! Would you like to continue?" That is all.

P.S. I have Vista because my well-meaning father meant to do the right thing but managed to DL every anti-virus, anti-popup, anti-spam, anti-anything (even though I had those things because I bought them and I update them) software but somehow DLed a virus that ate my OS.

[NXS]

I have a Mac so I have no idea what you are talking about..lol
:woo:

[GotSpurrier82]

I have a Mac so I have no idea what you are talking about..lol
:woo:
Lucky you. Bill Gates is an evil, evil man.

[TaterHater1984]

I've used Windows for 10 years. Never had a problem. Ever.

[crevil3lf]

i enjoy vista...but i just started usin it lastnight

[AllGamecock]

ive had vista since i got my new comp for christmas and i have had no problems with it at all.

but to each their own.

[CockySpaniel]

Stop going to those shady porn sites and you won't have to worry about the viruses! :thumbs:

Isn't the cocky babes thread good enough? :woo:

:wink:

[TheGuitarCock]

Stop going to those shady porn sites and you won't have to worry about the viruses! :thumbs:

Isn't the cocky babes thread good enough? :woo:

:wink:

You can get a Virus from those? Shit.........................

[CockySpaniel]

Yep! Just like in the real world!

:lol::-?

[TheGuitarCock]

How?

[crevil3lf]

How?

Your computer gets a nasty virus from nasty sites and you get nasty viruses from nasty girls.:rotfl:

[MACXIMVS]

man if you learn vista is ok but ill never run it as long as i dont have too

[GotSpurrier82]

Stop going to those shady porn sites and you won't have to worry about the viruses! :thumbs:

Isn't the cocky babes thread good enough? :woo:

:wink:
Considering I'm a girl, all I have to do it take my clothes off if I want to see a naked chick, so you're reasoning is flawed.

[MACXIMVS]

gs needs a web cam

just kidding

[GotSpurrier82]

gs needs a web cam

just kidding
LOL.

[theuscerock]

tried another codex today...and it still doesn't work...

[McNasty]

It's Vista...Vista is the cause of all problems...Just ask the Mac users.

Vista isn't as bad as people say. honestly, it pisses me off when people seriously act like Vista is the devil or something (i'm not saying you are, i cant read sarcasm if it's there). i've had Vista since it was released and i've had no serious problems with it, and no problems that weren't fix simply by updating.

if it's worked on laptops with XP but not this one with Vista, it could be some sort of virus that was picked up from a site you wouldn't expect. i run into those a lot. it could be a number of outside causes imparing your OS. do a full scan for problems and all. if it still doesn't work, it may be a setting somewhere or something. it could be a MILLION things.

but to everyone that bad mouths Vista, dont immediately say all problems are because of Vista. especially if you haven't used it (again, not saying any of you haven't, i wouldn't know. i just know people that say this crap and have never actually used it)

[khosk]

tried another codex today...and it still doesn't work...
I have trouble with Windows Media Player and sound with mpg and asf files in Vista but the same clips always seem to work in Windows Movie Maker on Vista. Have you tried it in Windows Movie Maker in Vista? If it works, export it back out as a wmv. That always solves the problem for me.

If not, can you convert the mpg files to wmv on your xp machine with it's version of Windows Movie Maker or some other video editor and see if that will work?

[Spur]

Vista to cost MS $395m in next year

Windows Vista's poor reception will cost Microsoft an estimated $395 million dollars over the next 12 months, says a new investment note by Bernstein senior analyst Charles Di Bona. The researcher predicts the sharp drop in revenue for Microsoft's fiscal 2009, starting in July, after a survey found mounting complaints about the new operating systems from companies concerned about problems with future upgrades.

Expectations that Vista will be used at the firms by 2011 has dropped from 68 percent in May 2007 to just 26 percent a year later; concerns about steep performance requirements has only 10 percent of those customers now planning to install Vista on existing systems versus 27 percent a year before.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/06/11/vista.may.cost.ms.395m/

[CockySpaniel]

Apple desktops are a good deal for the money. Macbooks are waay over priced for what you get.

UAC is not there for the power user, it is there for the average user who "thinks" he is a power user.

New software coming out in the next few years will be optimized for vista. If you stick with XP you won't be able to use the newest shiney thing on the market.

[theuscerock]

I have trouble with Windows Media Player and sound with mpg and asf files in Vista but the same clips always seem to work in Windows Movie Maker on Vista. Have you tried it in Windows Movie Maker in Vista? If it works, export it back out as a wmv. That always solves the problem for me.

If not, can you convert the mpg files to wmv on your xp machine with it's version of Windows Movie Maker or some other video editor and see if that will work?
Haven't tried that yet....thanks khosk...i'll try that later this weekend.

[2DamCocky]

Considering I'm a girl, all I have to do it take my clothes off if I want to see a naked chick, so you're reasoning is flawed.

:cigar:

[Simpleville Gamecock]

I am not sure what happened but I suspect that I've changed some sort of setting on my laptop in error. It runs Vista, which I'm not a big fan of, but...

The issue that I'm having is that I get 2 characters from 1 keystroke with certain keys. I'm typing this from my desktop because I can't deal with the frustration.

Examples are when I type u I get u' when I type 9 I get -9 and some other strange issues, when I hit the backspace key, it erases the next left character, then jumps all the way to the far left and I have to then delete.

Does anyone have any suggestions other than doing away with Vista?

Thanks,

Ted

[The Yancey]

Um, do you have your Fn key on? Sounds like a laptop keyboard setting that has zilch to do with Vista.

[Simpleville Gamecock]

Yancey, I checked that but that was my first thought that it was the fn key. Maybe it's stuck, I'll 'clean' it and check that again. Thanks for the response.

[Simpleville Gamecock]

Yancey, after some canned air and a toothpick under the fn key, it's working and I'm sending this from my laptop. I guess the 'hate' for vista and a few beers last night made a mountain of a mole hill!!

Thanks

[GapoGamecock51]

From what little I understand and from alot of what I hear, Vista has some major issues..........Im hoping when I am able to get a new laptop Vista's issues will be fixed, or a downgrade (if you can call it that) to XP will be available.


Gapo

[The Yancey]

Glad that is working for you! Vista deserved much of the hate it generated out of the gate. The service pack fixed most of it. Still no reason for me to leave XP for my desktop though. I will probably migrate to Vista next year when I upgrade my laptop.

[crevil3lf]

From what little I understand and from alot of what I hear, Vista has some major issues..........Im hoping when I am able to get a new laptop Vista's issues will be fixed, or a downgrade (if you can call it that) to XP will be available.


Gapo

Vista isn't so bad man I've been using Vista for around a month now. Not that long I know but it has been spotless as of now. Just take good care of the compuer no viruses and blah blah. Vista will be fine.

[McNasty]

Vista isn't so bad man I've been using Vista for around a month now. Not that long I know but it has been spotless as of now. Just take good care of the compuer no viruses and blah blah. Vista will be fine.

THANK YOU!

i've had Vista for over a year and it runs perfectly fine. people just dont know how to use computers. they panic when they see Vista, make a mistake, then blame it on Vista. gah!

[acejrock]

The problem some of us had with vista was it being too intrusive actually. I don't need to go through extra security practices when I use a computer. Oh yeah it's not as fast as xp either which is my number one issue. My next issues is moving all kinds of settings around to make it more difficult to troubleshoot. I use both xp and vista and xp is just better as of right now.

[McNasty]

i have Vista at home and XP at work. my XP at work always freezes up and stuff. granted, it's probably the share network the company has, but even so, XP seems to run slowly even when i'm using just Word, Excel, etc. i RARELY have any kind of problems with my Vista. i dunno, i'm just saying.

[ultimatetailgater]

Vista is a pile of crap and any I.T. person that has a clue will say the same.

Even Intel one of Microsoft's closest partners is refusing to install Vista on all of its workstations at its offices.

http://gizmodo.com/342920/holy-crap-did-bill-gates-just-say-windows-sucks

[crevil3lf]

Vista is a pile of crap and any I.T. person that has a clue will say the same.

Even Intel one of Microsoft's closest partners is refusing to install Vista on all of its workstations at its offices.

http://gizmodo.com/342920/holy-crap-did-bill-gates-just-say-windows-sucks

Vista Home isnt so bad though. But its ok becuase xp used to be terrible then Vista came now its great. When 7 comes out Vista will be the best in some peoples minds.

[CockySpaniel]

Vista Home isnt so bad though. But its ok becuase xp used to be terrible then Vista came now its great. When 7 comes out Vista will be the best in some peoples minds.

Yeah, I was around for the 98 to xp switch. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth then too.:lol:

[go_carolina_528]

Yeah, I was around for the 98 to xp switch. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth then too.:lol:
Your lucky you missed Windows ME. Worst OS ever.