BBall Offense

[Blake]

I dont want to turn this thread into an odom bashing thread but i want to ask this question because i dont know much about basketball.

Do we run a good offense? It seemed like most of our guys just hang out on the outside with not a clue about where to be and what to do. Then finally when we run out of time we just launch up a three. It might be a good offense it might not i dont know. Archie just looks so good down low when he has the ball and i dont think we use him anywhere near enough.

I just see other teams all running around, setting screens, constantly moving, while our just hurry up and shoot a three or pass around the outside till we shoot a three. I saw no open 15 footers or any easy lay ups due to good ball movement and strategy.

I might be way off bc i dont know much about the game, but we just look so confused, this cant be the offense he is trying to run is it? Is it because the players were young? It seems like we did it last year with Sr's.

What do you guys think? am i way off? Thanks for any info.


...BCF

[cboom4250]

I dont want to turn this thread into an odom bashing thread but i want to ask this question because i dont know much about basketball.

Do we run a good offense? It seemed like most of our guys just hang out on the outside with not a clue about where to be and what to do. Then finally when we run out of time we just launch up a three. It might be a good offense it might not i dont know. Archie just looks so good down low when he has the ball and i dont think we use him anywhere near enough.

I just see other teams all running around, setting screens, constantly moving, while our just hurry up and shoot a three or pass around the outside till we shoot a three. I saw no open 15 footers or any easy lay ups due to good ball movement and strategy.

I might be way off bc i dont know much about the game, but we just look so confused, this cant be the offense he is trying to run is it? Is it because the players were young? It seems like we did it last year with Sr's.

What do you guys think? am i way off? Thanks for any info.


...BCF

the offense is a decent one, but WE DON'T HAVE THE PLAYERS TO RUN IT. we are an uptempo team. when we try to break it down into a half court game, we get beat. that's what we are trying to run...a half court offense. we need to run and gun the entire game. that's our only chance of winning.

[FinchMcCrunkNasty]

Well we have never had a true low post big man since he has been here. We run the weave offense that pretty much no one in American runs anymore. And we have absolute zero penetration for easy buckets and no one blocking out to try and get an easy put back. It isn't the players, the players are good, it is the coaching, ALL OF THE COACHES!

[Go Cocks]

I watch a lot of basketball and I see that a lot of teams don't seem to run real plays. They play more like streetball than actually running plays. Smart teams seem to play organized ball, like Vandy. We, on the other hand, don't seem to have much organization. I hoped that during the break they would learn plays and have a good game last night. It's very disappointing.

[jstrom]

The pace of play on offense begins with the point. Our point is seemingly setting a trend of going Ofer (owe-fer) before eventually getting a few to drop (see the avg total pts vs. shooting %). After watching several games and listening to a few of his interviews post game, the guy has me believing he's trying to set some sort of legacy rather than letting it happen. He's unbelievably talented and we're lucky to have him, but he has a lot of maturing to do if he wants to help this team win. Per the weave comment, can't agree with you on that one. We don't run a weave offense. One note also...put BJ McKie on point and this team is very possibly top 10 material in my opinion.

[willy]

the offense is a decent one, but WE DON'T HAVE THE PLAYERS TO RUN IT. we are an uptempo team. when we try to break it down into a half court game, we get beat. that's what we are trying to run...a half court offense. we need to run and gun the entire game. that's our only chance of winning.



You are correct, and we could use a big man in the center.

[Crazy_Gamecock]

I think our offense this year is awful. I think we have the right amount of people to run a 3 guard offense, but they need to start running crisp plays. When you have a couple of solid 3 point shooters like Brandis and Zam and no true big man, the point of attack has to be to drive and kick it out, and pass often. The more this happens, the more likely the defense will get caught in a hole of some sort, whether it is zone or man defense. The main advantage to a 3 guard attack is finding the wide open guard. It seems like we don't even try. Especially Devan, I think he's been watching too much Kobe. There is no way ever that your point guard should finish the game with only 1 AST. EVER

[Rydert]

Sure there is when your PG is your leading scorer. And when you have 4 people that bring the ball up the floor. And when you have people driving to the hole. And when you continuously pass and rotate your PG isnt always going to make the "assisting pass". And for everyone's next argument about lack of rebounding... THAT IS OK!!! When you have a smaller team that creates turnovers you just look to stay close in rebounds and your turnovers take it from there. I wish people would think about things before they bitch. I don't like Odom's style anymore than the rest of you, but the players are playing hard and listening to him. SUPPORT THEM

[jstrom]

I think our offense this year is awful. I think we have the right amount of people to run a 3 guard offense, but they need to start running crisp plays. When you have a couple of solid 3 point shooters like Brandis and Zam and no true big man, the point of attack has to be to drive and kick it out, and pass often. The more this happens, the more likely the defense will get caught in a hole of some sort, whether it is zone or man defense. The main advantage to a 3 guard attack is finding the wide open guard. It seems like we don't even try. Especially Devan, I think he's been watching too much Kobe. There is no way ever that your point guard should finish the game with only 1 AST. EVER

mmmm....much to think about, there is.

[Rydert]

Also I think that our big men have given a lot of assists away that Devan and other guards have made... thoughts?

[spartcock77]

I think that the offense we run is called Odom Ball it involves all 5 of our players standing aroung the 3-point line and passing it around as the shot clock runs down until with aroung 2-5 sec remaining on it we throw up a contestes three pointer that usually bricks.

If you care to learn the offense or defense yourself you can check out these instructional videos
http://www.championshipproductions.com/cgi-bin/champ/auth/209/Dave-Odom.html
They come from the how not to coach basketball series

[jstrom]

Also I think that our big men have given a lot of assists away that Devan and other guards have made... thoughts?

I do agree with that thought too, but those opportunities have been very, very seldom. The guy's a shooter and on defense, a stealer. He could be sooooo much more.

[superstar90]

Most season's our offense does suck, but our problem is defense as of now. We are averaging 79pt/g. That's an improvement over the past seasons. Usually it is the offense holding us back, but as of now it is the defense.

[willy]

I think our offense this year is awful. I think we have the right amount of people to run a 3 guard offense, but they need to start running crisp plays. When you have a couple of solid 3 point shooters like Brandis and Zam and no true big man, the point of attack has to be to drive and kick it out, and pass often. The more this happens, the more likely the defense will get caught in a hole of some sort, whether it is zone or man defense. The main advantage to a 3 guard attack is finding the wide open guard. It seems like we don't even try. Especially Devan, I think he's been watching too much Kobe. There is no way ever that your point guard should finish the game with only 1 AST. EVER



Tend to agree with you on every point, Crazy_Gamecock.

[bgallup]

I think this team will be god in a few years...........

[willy]

I think this team will be god in a few years...........



I certainly hope they are not GOD in a few years.

[Cockadiddle]

Could some of you guys w/ the opinions of our offense and Odom's strategy qualify some of your points w/ some tangible evidence of your expertise (i.e. coaching/playing experience, etc). Just curious.

[Spur20001]

Most season's our offense does suck, but our problem is defense as of now. We are averaging 79pt/g. That's an improvement over the past seasons. Usually it is the offense holding us back, but as of now it is the defense.

Agree, our offense is scoring enough points to win games. Our problem has been defense. As our young players gain experience, our defense should get much better. When that happens, we are going to have a very good team.

[Crazy_Gamecock]

Could some of you guys w/ the opinions of our offense and Odom's strategy qualify some of your points w/ some tangible evidence of your expertise (i.e. coaching/playing experience, etc). Just curious.


I don't know about everyone else, but really it's easy to even see when you are watching on tv, the way offenses are set up. Now for my own sake I played baseball and basketball for 15 years before I gave it up. So I do know a little something about the game. And to the poster who said it is ok that devan can only have 1 ast a game. That is a complete falsehood. You never want your PG giving more TO in a game than dishing ast. And to say the big men take away his assists are crazy. If devan had the ball he would just go to the hole, or take a shot. That would take away from his assists.

[Crazy_Gamecock]

Agree, our offense is scoring enough points to win games. Our problem has been defense. As our young players gain experience, our defense should get much better. When that happens, we are going to have a very good team.

Our offense is definitely scoring enough that every game we should be in it. But, the problem lies in not setting a proper offensive play when you are cold from the floor. We almost gave Providence a chance to beat us in OT because we got cold and did nothing to improve it. This team is perfect for some backdoor cuts and I rarely see them.

[CockyChrisCox]

our offense is called the vaunted "THREE MAN WEAVE" three players run around the top of the perimeter passing the ball to each other to try and shake the defender to get an open 3 point shot while the other two players stand there in the key. it never works. it's boring.

and if you're dave odom...ITS AWESOME!!!!!!!!

[fightingamecocks]

I think that we can ALWAYS be better! I mean we won in the last 2 seconds...thats not exactly strategy. Our boys need more practice, it's early enough in the season to relax and let them work out the kinks we're not playing the big 10 just yet.
Thoughts on the UC Irvine game?

[willy]

I think that we can ALWAYS be better! I mean we won in the last 2 seconds...thats not exactly strategy. Our boys need more practice, it's early enough in the season to relax and let them work out the kinks we're not playing the big 10 just yet.
Thoughts on the UC Irvine game?



Unless a miracle happens and we get much much better and get a middle man, we will lose this game big time. Cal Irving is not a very good team either.

[Cocklover]

I just can't see us losing big time to this team tomorrow night, i think it will be close and we'll pull it out.

[bgallup]

Why are we even thinking UC Irvine can beat us?? Thats says alot right there!

[hardcock2]

Why are we even thinking UC Irvine can beat us?? Thats says alot right there!

well, they did beat us last year....just sayin'.

[usc89]

Agreed. We need to support the team first and foremostly. The comments thus far all point to the same problem, which can be surmised as decision-making. Instead of using a system to force the style of play they want to see, many coaches these days fashion the offense around the style and strengths of their players.

If you have a team that doesn't shoot well and doesn't have a big man, you may try to bridge that gap by running the uptempo game to take advantage of speed.

On the other hand, there are teams that will get back on defense, which forces the halfcourt offense. When this occurs, the PG must run the play, get the ball to the open shooter or the guy who can break the defense down and take the ball to the basket.

It all boils down to making the right decisions, something that our team is still learning how to do. This falls on Downey's shoulders as PG to understand his guys' strengths and get the team into the right play for the situation. He's getting better at doing this, although he still has a habit of trying to do too much individually.

I do agree that hanging around watching the shot clock go down to nothing and taking a desparation shot is ridiculous. A good high school coach wouldn't put up with this and a D-1 college coach shouldn't, either.

I'm still hoping these guys will get theirselves together and make it to the NCAA. We have the talent to do it, but the question that remains is "will this team find a way or will they find excuses?"

GO COCKS! NOW AND FOREVER!

[jstrom]

our offense is called the vaunted "THREE MAN WEAVE" three players run around the top of the perimeter passing the ball to each other to try and shake the defender to get an open 3 point shot while the other two players stand there in the key. it never works. it's boring.

and if you're dave odom...ITS AWESOME!!!!!!!!

That may be a sometime thing, but that's definitely not all the time. I haven't seen Princeton play this year, but to watch them run the weave was like watching art in motion. It's been a long time since, but I believe this offense (personell wise) is very similar to what we had back in the '80s...with BJ Mckie and Melvin Watson...just without the kickout. That was a much more selfless team.

[jstrom]

Unless a miracle happens and we get much much better and get a middle man, we will lose this game big time. Cal Irving is not a very good team either. PLEASE don't let me sit next to you during this game...lol Every prediction for every game has been the same so far...doom and gloom. They do make medication for that, you know.

[Freehawk]

A good offense is one that scores more points than the other team. It is about taking open shots and hitting them.

This team is guard oriented, and more than that, point guard oriented.

As far as whether the offense is good or bad or not, it is averaging a good number of points.

I know the Clemson game was totally disappointing, but other than that game the offense has scored plenty.

Against College of Knowledge they turned up the intensity on d in the second half. Evka B had a couple good trips down the floor. Defense and getting to the loose balls is the key, IMO.

[Freehawk]

Cal Irving? Did he say Cal Irving? I think I went to his bar mitzvah

[Freehawk]

That may be a sometime thing, but that's definitely not all the time. I haven't seen Princeton play this year, but to watch them run the weave was like watching art in motion. It's been a long time since, but I believe this offense (personell wise) is very similar to what we had back in the '80s...with BJ Mckie and Melvin Watson...just without the kickout. That was a much more selfless team.

Some would say Princeton O is like watching paint dry. I do agree that we are lacking the penetrate then kickout play. That said, Downey is a more productive scorer than Melvin W was.

I would rather see Downey penetrate and kick to a wide open Raley-Ross or Frederick than I would see him jack up three steps behind the arc, with the clock running down.