CockyTalk

CockyTalk (http://www.cockytalk.com/index.php)
-   The Cock Pit (http://www.cockytalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   Defensive creativity (http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=201840)

Cockypantherfan 12-08-2013 11:49 AM

Defensive creativity
 
I'm rewatching the Clem-USC game and one thing I wish we did more of is mixing up our looks and really disguising our D. Clemson is creative with their looks and bring pressure from a lot of different areas. I just wish we would throw different looks at teams. Hell, we don't even stunt the D line.

brat 12-08-2013 11:55 AM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
They only got 17 points. No need to do anything special to beat them. You get too fancy with a young team late in the year and it could do more harm than good.

Cockypantherfan 12-08-2013 12:28 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
I'm not saying we haven't played well. Our looks are just very vanilla and predictable. It would be nice to line up and really make the offense wonder who they have to block. Look at some defenses in the NFL that are creative and mix it up... The Saints this year, Ravens and Steelers a couple of years ago, etc. their defensive coordinators do their best to keep the offenses off balance.

Legalman72 12-08-2013 01:49 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brat (Post 4021779)
They only got 17 points. No need to do anything special to beat them. You get too fancy with a young team late in the year and it could do more harm than good.

17 points is the answer. And how many PPG was Clemson averaging?

Goofyboy 12-08-2013 01:51 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Over and over our coaches emphasized the need to simplify schemes and pointed out how it worked. We used different alignments at times, but if you noticed, our breakdowns didn't occur when we didn't have people in place, but when they missed assignments and tackles, bit on fakes, got caught flatfooted, reached with arms instead of moving feet, took bad angles, and sometimes didn't stay stout enough to seal edges. A few times, they got outrun. They improved, but the coaches stated that simplifying things helped them do the key things better.

sandstorm2001 12-08-2013 01:55 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofyboy (Post 4021907)
Over and over our coaches emphasized the need to simplify schemes and pointed out how it worked. We used different alignments at times, but if you noticed, our breakdowns didn't occur when we didn't have people in place, but when they missed assignments and tackles, bit on fakes, got caught flatfooted, reached with arms instead of moving feet, took bad angles, and sometimes didn't stay stout enough to seal edges. A few times, they got outrun. They improved, but the coaches stated that simplifying things helped them do the key things better.

This. We don't have the experience at linebacker and safety to get overly creative.

wilbert G willigers 12-08-2013 01:56 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandstorm2001 (Post 4021913)
This. We don't have the experience at linebacker and safety to get overly creative.

ding ding. here is your answer OP

crowcutta 12-08-2013 02:15 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
if anything i think we stunt with clowney too many times a game.

Garnet Gamecock 12-08-2013 02:25 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Well, I don't want to revert to what Ellis was doing.

Mizzou just pasted 42 on the Auburn defense.

Cockypantherfan 12-08-2013 02:35 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
So as the guys spend more time in the system and learn the plays and responsibilities, I would like to see us be more creative on defensive calls. Really make the offense not know what we are doing pre snap.

USCMM 12-08-2013 03:07 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
I loved watching Michigan States defensive line against Ohio St. I really liked how they shifted the whole line last second to predict better angles. It seemed to work every time for them. I wish we could do some of that.

GH 12-08-2013 03:14 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
A lot of teams were held to season lows in points or yards when they played USC

Cockypantherfan 12-08-2013 03:14 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by USCMM (Post 4022016)
I loved watching Michigan States defensive line against Ohio St. I really liked how they shifted the whole line last second to predict better angles. It seemed to work every time for them. I wish we could do some of that.

Exactly. We do absolutely NOTHING creative.. Even something small like what you mention here.

garnet_black215 12-08-2013 03:16 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
We beat Clemson by 14, held them well under their season average for points, passing yards per game, and total yards per game, as well as getting four turnovers on defense...

...and this is the thread you start?

Cockypantherfan 12-08-2013 03:22 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garnet_black215 (Post 4022030)
We beat Clemson by 14, held them well under their season average for points, passing yards per game, and total yards per game, as well as getting four turnovers on defense...

...and this is the thread you start?

Once again, I never said I was displeased with the way our defense performed. My point is why can't we be creative with our play calls? FSU has a good defense and they give a lot of different looks. MIch St has a good D and they have some good wrinkles in their D, Stanford has creativity... Why can't we?

And this thread is not based off of the Clemson game, me rewatching it just sparked an idea.

GamecockSuperFan 12-08-2013 03:26 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Our defense as a unit on average allowed only 20 points per game. Considering what we lost, that's not a huge drop off. They really got better as the season went along. I believe last season we allowed 17 ppg.

I think Ward would love to get more creative defensively, but we have to put our players in the best position and do what they're good at. Maybe early on in the season coaches threw too much at them, it wasn't until we simplified things that the defense began playing better as a unit. I'm not sure if Michigan State, FSU, Stanford are young on defense, but we were in some areas. I will say I heard all offseason how they would move Clowney around and it just plain did not happen. I wasn't happy to see that. Look, if he's getting double teamed/chipped/etc. Then how about shift the d-line over, let Clowney quickly run to the opposite side pre-snap? It just didn't make sense seeing Clowney chasing people down from behind all game long. Maybe the coaches realized that by letting the offense take him out of the play, it was actually giving them an advantage defensively with the plays they were calling because they knew what they were going to get.

As far as creativity? I'd like to see more of that on the offensive side of the ball. Seems like we kept a lot in the bag until the clemson game.

Spurticus 12-08-2013 03:45 PM

Re: Defensive creativity
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofyboy (Post 4021907)
Over and over our coaches emphasized the need to simplify schemes and pointed out how it worked. We used different alignments at times, but if you noticed, our breakdowns didn't occur when we didn't have people in place, but when they missed assignments and tackles, bit on fakes, got caught flatfooted, reached with arms instead of moving feet, took bad angles, and sometimes didn't stay stout enough to seal edges. A few times, they got outrun. They improved, but the coaches stated that simplifying things helped them do the key things better.

^
THIS X 1,000

During the Ellis Johnson era our defense was a nightmare at times.
Johnson didn't believe in Blitzing, but he believed in throwing up different
Secondary alignments, stunts up front and basically dropping LBs back
into coverage that pretty much took them out of run support. If you
remember, right after the Arkansas game in 2011, Spurrier publicly called
out Ellis Johnson, Whammy Ward and then Cornerback coach Shane
Beamer for using very complicated schems on defense and for having
too many coaches calling plays during the game. After Stephon Gilmore
told him that several times, the secondary was getting two different
calls for the same play. ...... Spurrier told the press that he got with
Coach Johnson and told him he wanted to simplify the secondary schemes
and have ONE coach calling the plays in. He said we need to get back to
basic coverage and let our talent go make plays. If you also remember,
our defense got MUCH better after that.

I personally think that's why Ellis Johnson left at the end of that season
and took the SM job. I think he was pissed because Spurrier told him to
change the defense publicly. We got rid of the Two DB coach system
and promoted Ward to DC for the Cap 1 bowl that year, and he hired
coach Grady Brown to coach the secondary during the winter.

It's OK to disguise coverages and fronts "OCCASIONALLY", but to do it
just to try to confuse the opponent too often does more harm than good.
KISS is the best policy for any part of your team. The less they have
to remember the better. Good athletes will do far better in simple sets
and allow them to improvise on the fly.

BTW.... All that shifting and throwing different set at us that Clemson
did the past few years, and all of that Simple sets we run ended up how ?

We've outscored them 155 to 71, have 9 picks, and 21 sacks. I'm not
in the mood to look up time of possession or total yardage, but you get
where I'm going. Our half decade of dominance over them should show
that it's better to enter a game with a simple game plan and to execute
it as closely to perfection as possible.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.