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-   -   AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings. (http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=202204)

Gamecocks321 12-17-2013 06:05 PM

AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
A poster by the name of Leweman off another message board posted an interesting thread about the AP All Americans and the recruiting rankings. Check it out:



Quote:

According to 247 sports composite rankings, the AP All American Teams (considered the best players in the country) are made up of :

8 - 5 stars
23 - 4 stars
44 - 3 stars and below


You would think the number of 3 stars and 4 stars would be reversed, at least. I'm also surprised there weren't more 5 stars. Not sure what it means in the scheme of things. I think a lot of what a player is able to accomplish has to do with the program and the talent they are surrounded by as much as anything.

Also looking at each conference:

11 - ACC
9 - Big 12
15- B1G
14- PAC
17- SEC

Seems like the talent is pretty evenly dispersed among different conferences in the Big 5.

AP All-America Team
First Team
QB - Jameis Winston, Florida State 5-Star
RB - Andre Williams, Boston College 3-Star
RB - Ka'Deem Carey, Arizona 3-Star
WR - Brandin Cooks, Oregon State 3-Star
WR - Mike Evans, Texas A&M 3-Star
TE - Jace Amaro, Texas Tech 4-Star
C - Bryan Stork, Florida State 3-Star
OG - Cyril Richardson, Baylor 3-Star
OG - David Yankey, Stanford 3-Star
OT - Jake Matthews, Texas A&M 4-Star
OT - Cyrus Kouandijo, Alabama 5-Star
DE - Michael Sam, Missouri 2-Star
DE - Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas 5-Star
DT - Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh 3-Star
DT - Will Sutton, Arizona State 3-Star
LB - Anthony Barr, UCLA 4-Star
LB - C.J. Mosley, Alabama 4-Star
LB - Ryan Shazier, Ohio State 4-Star
CB - Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State 3-Star
CB - Lamarcus Joyner, Florida State 5-Star
S - Cody Prewitt, Mississippi 3-Star
S - Deone Bucannon, Washington State 3-Star
PK - Roberto Aguayo, Florida State 3-star
P - Tom Hornsey, Memphis NR
AP - Jordan Lynch, Northern Illinois 3-star
============================
Second Team
QB - Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M 3-star
RB - Tre' Mason, Auburn 4-star
RB - Bishop Sankey, Washington 4-star
WR - Sammy Watkins, Clemson 5-star
WR - Davante Adams, Fresno State 2-star
TE - Eric Ebron, North Carolina 3-star
C - Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma 3-star
OG - Gabe Jackson, Mississippi State 3-star
OG - Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA 4-star
OT - Cameron Erving, Florida State 3-star
OT - Taylor Lewan, Michigan 4-star
DE - Vic Beasley, Clemson 3-star
DE - Shilique Calhoun, Michigan State 3-star
DT - Timmy Jernigan, Florida State 5-star
DT - Kelcy Quarles, South Carolina 4-star
LB - Trent Murphy, Stanford 3-star
LB - Khalil Mack, Buffalo 2-star
LB - Chris Borland, Wisconsin 3-star
CB - Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State 3-star
CB - Jason Verrett, Texas Christian 3-star
S - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Alabama 5-star
S - Ahmad Dixon, Baylor 4-star
PK - Anthony Fera, Texas 3-star
P - Drew Kaser, Texas A&M 2-star
AP - Ty Montgomery, Stanford 4-star
============================
Third Team
QB - A.J. McCarron, Alabama 4-star
RB - Carlos Hyde, Ohio State 4-star
RB - Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska 3-star
WR - Allen Robinson, Penn State 3-star
WR - Jordan Matthews, Vanderbilt 3-star
TE - Austin Seferian-Jenkins, Washington 4-star
C - Reese Dismukes, Auburn 4-star
OG - John Urschel, Penn State 2-star
OG - Ryan Groy, Wisconsin 3-star
OT - Jack Mewhort, Ohio State 4-star
OT - Gregory Robinson, Auburn 4-star
DE - Marcus Smith, Louisville 3-star
DE - Jeremiah Attaochu, Georgia Tech 3-star
DT - Ra'Shede Hageman, Minnesota 3-star
DT - Leonard Williams, USC 4-star
LB - Shayne Skov, Stanford 4-star
LB - Max Bullough, Michigan State 4-star
LB - Denicos Allen, Michigan State 3-star
CB - Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon 4 star
CB - Vernon Hargreaves III, Florida 5 star
S - Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois 2-star
S - Ty Zimmerman, Kansas State NR
PK - Jeff Budzien, Northwestern 3-star
P - Austin Rehkow, Idaho 2-star
AP - Odell Beckham Jr., LSU 4-star

InletCock1989 12-17-2013 06:10 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
All about talent evaluation!

Roosterboy 12-17-2013 06:17 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Proof...those "recruiting experts" don't really know shit.
So for all those star chasers, read this...HS rankings mean very little.
Talent evaluation, player development and finding players that fit yours schemes are more important than how some kid does at a combine camp.

Emery 12-17-2013 06:34 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Actually, I don't think this means a whole lot. How many 5 stars total and how many on the AP team and what about 3 stars?

I'm wagering the chance of a 5 star recruit being on the team far exceeds a 3 star just looking at total percent chance.

JDRAY^# 12-17-2013 06:38 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Makes sense. There are usually only about 20-30 5* recruits in every class, so the chances of having a 5* all american team is very small . I understand that the stars disappear once a player steps on campus, and evaluation/development are what matters in the end, but to say these recruiting experts dont know what they are talking about is simply not true.

scfanz 12-17-2013 06:51 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roosterboy (Post 4030803)
Proof...those "recruiting experts" don't really know shit.
So for all those star chasers, read this...HS rankings mean very little.
Talent evaluation, player development and finding players that fit yours schemes are more important than how some kid does at a combine camp.


I've said the same thing several times on this board and have been blasted.
The truth is rankings are over-rated. The true experts are the coaches and our coaches have proven they know what they're doing.

Acockolypse Now 12-17-2013 06:55 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Numbers.

b381l 12-17-2013 07:04 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
There are usually only fifteen 5* players total......then there are 3-4 times as many 3* as 4* players.

CockOla 12-17-2013 07:10 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scfanz (Post 4030842)
I've said the same thing several times on this board and have been blasted.
The truth is rankings are over-rated. The true experts are the coaches and our coaches have proven they know what they're doing.

Bingo, +1.

In our coaches I trust to bring in recruits regardless of star-rating who are of high character, coach-able, willing to succeed in the classroom and position themselves for a rewarding career of choice after their student-athlete experience as Gamecocks.

Go Cocks!!!

ConwayGamecock 12-17-2013 07:34 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRAY^# (Post 4030831)
Makes sense. There are usually only about 20-30 5* recruits in every class, so the chances of having a 5* all american team is very small . I understand that the stars disappear once a player steps on campus, and evaluation/development are what matters in the end, but to say these recruiting experts dont know what they are talking about is simply not true.

The AP AA list appears regardless of class: Winston is a freshman, Manziel a sophomore, etc. etc. So this listing is reflective of all 4 years in school - 5 if you count redshirt years (Winston is a RS Fresh and Manziel is a RS Soph). So there's 20-30 5* in every class, and this listing reflects players from the past 4-5 classes, but there's only 8 total former 5* prospects listed?? Same thing with all the 4* prospects rated every cycle: only 23 of them were able to outvote the 3*-rated and lower prospects for this listing?

GamecockInHell 12-17-2013 07:44 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
While its true that many times 3 and 4 star players can maximize their potential, there's a lot less left to chance with a 5 star. I'll take a Lattimore over any 3 or 4 star player any day.

JDRAY^# 12-17-2013 07:49 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ConwayGamecock (Post 4030892)
The AP AA list appears regardless of class: Winston is a freshman, Manziel a sophomore, etc. etc. So this listing is reflective of all 4 years in school - 5 if you count redshirt years (Winston is a RS Fresh and Manziel is a RS Soph). So there's 20-30 5* in every class, and this listing reflects players from the past 4-5 classes, but there's only 8 total former 5* prospects listed?? Same thing with all the 4* prospects rated every cycle: only 23 of them were able to outvote the 3*-rated and lower prospects for this listing?

There can only be 22 AP AA players per team (44 for 1st and 2nd team). I'd say 8 5* players on the AP AA out of 44 players is about right since there are 30 or less 5* recruits per a class, compared to the 100's of 3*-4* players.

roosterdude21 12-17-2013 07:53 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
The star rating formula needs an overhaul.

GarnetInChicago 12-17-2013 08:08 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Ugh, this discussion again?

1) Star ratings are not the end-all, be-all. Coaches' evaluations of course matter.
2) Yes, 2-star and 3-star players can become studs too.

BUT

If you look at the likelihood of 1 of 20-30 five-star players becoming a college standout versus 1 of 200 four-star players becoming a college standout versus the likelihood of 1 of 1000 3-star players becoming a college standout .... the numbers pretty clearly reveal you have a substantially higher likelihood of getting a player who turns out to be great once he gets to college from the 5-star rated player pool than you do from the lower-rated players pool.

OF COURSE that doesn't turn out to be true every single time. OF COURSE coaches can find diamonds in the rough that the ratings people had lower-rated. Does that mean these ratings people are completely off their rockers and getting these rankings wrong or that they don't matter? NO.

uscfreek88 12-17-2013 08:48 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GamecockInHell (Post 4030900)
While its true that many times 3 and 4 star players can maximize their potential, there's a lot less left to chance with a 5 star. I'll take a Lattimore over any 3 or 4 star player any day.

what if we would have gotten Michael Dyer that year? some services had him ranked higher than Lattimore

recruiting stars mean nothing....if they did, ppl who work for Rivals would be making more money for football teams

CarolinaBand 12-17-2013 09:04 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetInChicago (Post 4030922)
Ugh, this discussion again?

1) Star ratings are not the end-all, be-all. Coaches' evaluations of course matter.
2) Yes, 2-star and 3-star players can become studs too.

BUT

If you look at the likelihood of 1 of 20-30 five-star players becoming a college standout versus 1 of 200 four-star players becoming a college standout versus the likelihood of 1 of 1000 3-star players becoming a college standout .... the numbers pretty clearly reveal you have a substantially higher likelihood of getting a player who turns out to be great once he gets to college from the 5-star rated player pool than you do from the lower-rated players pool.

OF COURSE that doesn't turn out to be true every single time. OF COURSE coaches can find diamonds in the rough that the ratings people had lower-rated. Does that mean these ratings people are completely off their rockers and getting these rankings wrong or that they don't matter? NO.

Hey guy...! Quit bringing logic and reason into this. I want to keep manipulating numbers so that they fit into my preconceived opinion on things!

Barry_gamecock 12-17-2013 09:13 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emery (Post 4030828)
Actually, I don't think this means a whole lot. How many 5 stars total and how many on the AP team and what about 3 stars?

I'm wagering the chance of a 5 star recruit being on the team far exceeds a 3 star just looking at total percent chance.

This. Also…its helpful to look at really crucial positions…LT, QB, etc. and see how the 5 star guys fare.

Barry_gamecock 12-17-2013 09:15 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Also, stats put guys on the AP team, and stats don't mean someone is a better player either. For example…no Jadeveon Clowney on this team.

uscfreek88 12-17-2013 09:26 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_gamecock (Post 4030993)
Also, stats put guys on the AP team, and stats don't mean someone is a better player either. For example…no Jadeveon Clowney on this team.

thats prb b/c his play didnt earn it.....i like Clowney just as much as every other gamecock.....but other DEs had better years, nothing wrong with that

usc1 12-17-2013 09:26 PM

Re: AP All-Americans and Recruiting Rankings.
 
To me this proves that star rankings DO matter.

45% of the All-Americans on that list are 4 and 5 stars. Do you think the general pool of college athletes is anywhere near 45% 4 and 5 stars? Noo way. Not even close.


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