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superfly 02-23-2014 08:20 AM

In Mens basketball
 
...how much better are we now than before ? I understand that there was a downward spiral under Horn and it was a failed staff. The problem is we are no better as a team than we were then. I will accept that Frank Martin had a better resume and has brought in different players but the records are no better and the crowds are still smaller. This is a sport where one or two good players can make a big difference with a good supporting cast but I just don't see that transpiring. I am not a "doubting Debbie" so to speak but when I look into the crystal ball, I don't see Frank as our road map to success. We passed on Greg Marshall twice for what ever reason and the guy has produced everywhere and we haven't. If we are better off now than we were under Horn (and I am no Horn fan by a long shot ) then please explain how ? I think we made the wrong hire twice and the next time we need to get it right. Don't give me the "Rome wasn't built in a day " crap. We are not building Rome.....

gamecock88 02-23-2014 08:43 AM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
I get what you mean. Different coach, same results. No reason to expect a great improvement next season either, some but not great. There are flashes here and there but we have maybe 2 players that are ready to take us to the next level and they can't get it done alone. Still so many needs around this team year after year its the same story.

SanAntonioCock 02-23-2014 09:29 AM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
...and I hate the Spurrier/Martin comparisons. It's not the same as football. The SEC is not some kind of basketball super conference.

Tolley 02-23-2014 09:34 AM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
I understand where you're coming from. I was definitely hoping for better results this year too. However, I'm not going to say we made a bad hire just yet. He's got one more year, for me, to turn this program around. Next year, we should win most of these close games we lost this year, I also expect us to pull an upset or two of teams we aren't supposed to beat. We need to finish next year strong, with a noticeable difference from the beginning of the season.
Now, I haven't really followed our basketball recruiting, so I'm not sure if he's got any high talent players coming in. But if he doesn't, and he can't win with the talent he is bringing in then, So Long I'll See Ya.

Cockypantherfan 02-23-2014 10:14 AM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
The hardest thing for us to do is recruit quality players. We are recruiting players who are also getting courted by all the big time programs. Makes it tough to sell the players on coming to USC when we are in a big rut.

The thing that really gets me is it seems our team as a whole really lacks a high level of understanding about fundamentals... What to do to beat a press, weak side defensive help, good rotations on D, boxing out, good ball movement on offense, effective screening, back door cuts, etc. Until our team fully understands those things and can implement them in game I just don't see us getting much better.

Luke Skycocker 02-23-2014 10:42 AM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
You have to wait until year #4

ipull4usc 02-23-2014 12:27 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
I am having trouble being optimistic about "building a program" because of the post play. You cannot build a program without solid post play. We currently have horrendous post play. I'm not convinced anyone on the roster is going to be a solid post performer. The Lithuanians are unathletic and low upside. Ringer is a below the rim guy who never sees the court even with our current troubles. Henry may have upside but has no aggressiveness, no offensive game, and is constantly lost.

In our current class we are bringing in a point guard and shooting guard. No post players on the way.

As long as we have terrible post play we will continue to be one of, if not the worst program in the conference.

Cockhornleghorn 02-23-2014 01:00 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
One of the biggest problems in basketball recruiting right now is that there isn't a huge depth of talent in South Carolina. We signed Sindarius Thornwell last year and he is going to be a great player. Horn left the cupboard bare, so it will take until year 4 for Frank to turn it around.

acejrock 02-23-2014 02:09 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
Please don't try to compare the first years with Frank to the first years with Horn. It's disrespectful to Frank and Odom.

FLCock89 02-23-2014 02:32 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
Dawn Staley was 10-18 and 14-15 her first two seasons here. Year three they managed to make the WNIT with an 18-15 record. Now, three seasons later, we are contending for an SEC championship and a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament. Trying to determine if Martin is a successful/failed hire in the middle of his second season is way too impatient. Like others have said on here, year 4 is the number.

Regalcock 02-23-2014 02:37 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
I have confidence in CFM. An awful second half yesterday and the crying rears it's ugly head again. I am going to give him more time as we did Dawn and that has certainly paid off even when her star player (Bone) cried and quit on us.

CockTail 02-23-2014 02:39 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
Some of the same people that wanted us to go after Marshall wanted us to go after Anthony Grant who is now at ALA and may soon get fired. Success at one place does not guarantee success at another.

Martin may not be the answer, but he is better than any coach we have had in 15 years, give him time.

We have to understand where we are as a program. We have, no history is success, lots of coaching turnover, no players in the pros, and a team full of fresh and soph. Who wants to come here? This is going to take several years to fix, not 2

Legalman72 02-23-2014 02:40 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
The following are the facts of how long it takes to build things:

Basketball program: 3-4 years

Offensive line: 18 years

Lego tower that gets knocked down by the ceiling fan: 42 minutes

GamecockDad1531 02-23-2014 02:53 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
We need to bring in about 3 more top 15 classes before we'll be able to have games that we expect to win. As long as Martin improves the talent, the effort and the level of play each season, I'm willing to give him as long as he needs. I don't expect much till at least year 5, if he stays that long.

FilchCock 02-23-2014 02:55 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
I know this will be a frustrating response, but give it time.

davidmc467 02-23-2014 03:59 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
Its taken Dawn Staley six seasons to get the ladies program from the dumps to number four in the country.

It takes time.

treyno2722 02-23-2014 04:39 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmc467 (Post 4095269)
Its taken Dawn Staley six seasons to get the ladies program from the dumps to number four in the country.

It takes time.

Maybe Dawn can coach the Men's team also. Not banging on Frank but this team doesn't have much talent.

davidmc467 02-23-2014 04:50 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by treyno2722 (Post 4095323)
Maybe Dawn can coach the Men's team also. Not banging on Frank but this team doesn't have much talent.

And neither did Dawn in her second season.

superfly 02-23-2014 05:09 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmc467 (Post 4095269)
Its taken Dawn Staley six seasons to get the ladies program from the dumps to number four in the country.

It takes time.

I saw improvement with Staley's team each and every year, game by game. They played harder. They were more fundamentally sound and you could see a work in progress. I have not seen the same in Horn or Martins teams. We should be seeing a team that can run set plays and do the things to stay in a game. That is not happening with the men's team on the same level as with Staley's first 2 teams. I am not looking for a No.6 ranking. I look to see if we improve game by game...year by year. I see no evidence of that and the frustration is not helping the team. I see a tight team, afraid to make a mistake, not a bunch of kids playing a game they love. If that's not what you see then that's OK with me, but I see what I see.

al hough 02-23-2014 06:22 PM

Re: In Mens basketball
 
I see it differently, I do see improvement over the year. Also see periods when freshman play like freshman and not like seniors. Some folks expect the impossible, we don't have the one and done types that can change a program right away. We also do not have the talent all around to win most of the close games that we have lost. Coach Martin and staff have to work really hard to get recruits to come to Carolina.
I do not see a team that plays uptight under pressure, but a team with freshman that are mismatched against teams with mostly upperclassmen.
This is really the first year since we have mostly all new players, you MUST have patience until this years freshman are at least juniors before you can expect a big winning season. It is not easy to watch our guys working so hard and not getting the W but things will change. The team right now is way better than they were in November and next year will be better than they are now. That said, they still might not win enough to suit those of you that think it should change over night. I hope we get a big horse type inside for next year and that will help a lot.


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