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-   -   "Poor man's Johnny Manziel" (http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=206362)

Cockypantherfan 05-07-2014 09:44 AM

"Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Here is an article from Yahoo about "poor" versions of players coming out in the draft. It isn't much, but still a little blurb. Ellington and Clowney are also mentioned in the article.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...131713000.html

MWard 05-07-2014 09:49 AM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
3 Gamecocks mentinoed. Shaw and Ellington get nods as the poor man's prospect, and Clowney is Top Available.

eightohhthree 05-07-2014 09:57 AM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
I like the highlight video too. Not bad publicity 2 days before the draft.

Flameout12 05-07-2014 10:34 AM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Don't get the comments about accuracy on deep balls....that was one of Connor's strengths.

Cockypantherfan 05-07-2014 10:39 AM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameout12 (Post 4151135)
Don't get the comments about accuracy on deep balls....that was one of Connor's strengths.

I don't get it either. Aside from overthrowing some deep routes, he was very accurate on the deep ball.

sc455 05-07-2014 11:06 AM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cockypantherfan (Post 4151138)
I don't get it either. Aside from overthrowing some deep routes, he was very accurate on the deep ball.

you don't get it but you say that he overthrew deep routes. hello.

Cockypantherfan 05-07-2014 11:33 AM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sc455 (Post 4151161)
you don't get it but you say that he overthrew deep routes. hello.

His accuracy for the most part was spot on. Did he overthrow some balls, sure, but more often than not when he had an open receiver on a deep route he would hit him. I also remember quite a few deep routes where the receivers would fail to pull in a beautifully thrown deep ball so that skews accuracy #s as well.

behindenemylines 05-07-2014 12:09 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
I prefer to think of Johnny Manziel as a poor man's Connor Shaw.

GarnetInChicago 05-07-2014 01:37 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
I think the criticism on the deep ball accuracy is fair, to a point. Connor did leave some throws short, and threw some long. Other times he was right on point.

FanofCarolina1 05-07-2014 01:53 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Jaybo Shaw is the poor man's JFF. not Connor.

ReadR00ster 05-07-2014 01:54 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
So Johnny Manziel was never off on a deep ball? I seem to remember a lot of beautiful deep balls thrown by Shaw. Especially this last year. Accuracy isn't all about the QB's arm. It's more about getting to know each of your WR. Connor did an outstanding job this year of getting on the same page with Byrd, Jones, and Ellingtion, the year before his go to guys were Sanders and Cunningham.

Flameout12 05-07-2014 02:07 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetInChicago (Post 4151257)
I think the criticism on the deep ball accuracy is fair, to a point. Connor did leave some throws short, and threw some long. Other times he was right on point.

Mostly '12 when he played hurt most of the year. '13 was another story.
But their comments about his durability are spot on.

ReadR00ster 05-07-2014 03:07 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
He can't be allowed to scramble in the NFL imo.

spareparts 05-07-2014 03:08 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Shaw is a far better long-term NFL QB prospect than Manziel and anyone that reads anything on Yahoo is a moron.

Seriously folks...... Yahoo

trapper82 05-07-2014 03:51 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
I will be absolutely SHOCKED if Johnny Manziel makes a decent QB in the NFL. The hash marks are closer together, so you can't keep plays alive as long in the NFL without hitting the far sideline. He took too many chances after scrambling around to buy time for the NFL too. The windows won't be the same in the NFL where he is playing all of the All-Stars. That, plus his personal problems that I don't see getting better when he has a ton of money in a fairly large city...and I am shocked anyone is willing to spend a first round pick on him. He can get away with that in college, but he won't in the next level. I am sorry, I was wrong earlier, I will be SHOCKED if he's in the league in 4 years.

qcgamecock 05-07-2014 04:33 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trapper82 (Post 4151355)
I will be absolutely SHOCKED if Johnny Manziel makes a decent QB in the NFL. The hash marks are closer together, so you can't keep plays alive as long in the NFL without hitting the far sideline. He took too many chances after scrambling around to buy time for the NFL too. The windows won't be the same in the NFL where he is playing all of the All-Stars. That, plus his personal problems that I don't see getting better when he has a ton of money in a fairly large city...and I am shocked anyone is willing to spend a first round pick on him. He can get away with that in college, but he won't in the next level. I am sorry, I was wrong earlier, I will be SHOCKED if he's in the league in 4 years.

He grew up with ton of money and large cities are nothing new to him? I have not seen the hash marks influence one QB from college to pro, not one, if you can scramble you can keep the play alive what does the hash mark have to do with the price of China? I think Johnny Football's biggest problem will be motivation, once again he is already very wealthy, has a degree, is a superstar known around the US but does he have the will to be great and I think the answer will surprise you as Mr. Shaw surprises a bunch of people with his will to win!

ClumpsonTaters 05-07-2014 04:39 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
ridiculous. johnny fooseball literally throws nothing but punts in the air and had a 6-5 receiver to throw to. Shaw not only has better mechanics as a QB, but isn't as big of a nuisance to deal with and doesn't create problems in the locker room. johnny football is a joke and is a bust waiting to happen

trapper82 05-07-2014 05:06 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qcgamecock (Post 4151407)
He grew up with ton of money and large cities are nothing new to him? I have not seen the hash marks influence one QB from college to pro, not one, if you can scramble you can keep the play alive what does the hash mark have to do with the price of China? I think Johnny Football's biggest problem will be motivation, once again he is already very wealthy, has a degree, is a superstar known around the US but does he have the will to be great and I think the answer will surprise you as Mr. Shaw surprises a bunch of people with his will to win!

You haven't seen any mobile QB's that did well in college not do so well in the pros? I would disagree, I can name a dozen off the top of my head.

Quote:

NFL hashmarks are 18 feet, 6 inches wide (the same as the field goal posts) versus a whopping 40 feet in NCAA football. That is almost 2.2 times wider.
Concept is straightforward, if you made a living on lateral speed to the far sideline and getting around the edge, there is less of an edge to get around in the NFL. In college, the ball is placed further away from the far sideline when it is on the hash mark. So if I have farther to go until I hit the sideline, I can use that space to get around people, or just avoid ending the play. The sideline is another defender, after all. Let me put it this way, would you rather have 20 yards of lateral space to scramble around and try to make a play, or 30 yards?

The distance of the hashmarks also limits the effectiveness of certain guys who thrive on that lateral speed and never transition quite so well. I think this was CJ Spiller's problem for a long time, coupled with the fact he has a problem staying healthy. If you think Manziel will be good, we will obviously see who is right and who is wrong. I think he will be a total NFL bust, crash and burn kinda scenario. I don't think the amount of money his parents gave him is anywhere near what he will have now, and I don't think whatever city he lived in when he went to Texas A&M is the size of the one he will go to. He shows patterns of an alcoholic and substance abuser, if you read that in-depth article ESPN did on him the young man needs some help.

But, I could be wrong. My opinion is just that, my opinion.

crowcutta 05-07-2014 05:18 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
the stats and metrics probably say that manziel is a little more accurate as well as having a better arm. while connor shaw is flat out a better decision maker. shaw better straight line speed while manziel is more elusive. what you've got to love about shaw is the improvement year to year. his overall completion pct dipped this year below his first two years as a starter, but he had the 2nd highest pct of downfield (11+ yards) throws of any quarterback in the draft (behind mettenberger). despite throwing it downfield that much he had the lowest int pct of any qb in the draft. plus he had the lowest pct of deflected throws in the draft.

the two concerns according to the metrics are a below avg completion pct vs the blitz and a poor completion pct vs pressure (forced to move). one could explain that away by saying not all blitzes and pressure are equal and while hes not completing as many passes as you'd like under those circumstances he's also not making mistakes.

GamecockSuperFan 05-07-2014 05:21 PM

Re: "Poor man's Johnny Manziel"
 
I don't see how people can say Shaw has BETTER mechanics. If you go and watch the tape you'll see he's got an almost tebowish delivery and lets the ball down. Not as much as tebow but it's noticeable. When his arm is up by his ear, he delivers a good pass. Just watch the tape. When it's not he throws too high. With that said, you can't argue with the win percentage and the TD/INT Ratio. Just as much credit goes to the rest of the offense as well as the defense. There's not a bunch of slouches out there on offense anymore.


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