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USCNowAndForever 05-31-2014 01:32 AM

Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
It *seems* that in college football, teams with a strong offense tend to have a weak defense, and teams with a strong defense tend to have a weak offense.

Strong offense/weak defense examples:
-Oregon
-Clemson
-Texas A&M
-Auburn
-Texas Tech (under Mike Leach)
-Louisiana Tech (under Sonny Dykes)
-Baylor
-Kentucky (under Hal Mumme)

Strong defense/weak offense examples:
-LSU
-Alabama
-South Carolina
-Virginia Tech

Why do you think this is?

Whatever your position is, please provide reasoning to support it.

Fire away

Gamecocks1137 05-31-2014 01:33 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Nope, Florida State proved last season you can put up 80 on an opponent and still shut their offense down.

USCNowAndForever 05-31-2014 01:34 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamecocks1137 (Post 4171093)
Nope, Florida State proved last season you can put up 80 on an opponent and still shut their offense down.

Lol. :kill:

USCNowAndForever 05-31-2014 01:35 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamecocks1137 (Post 4171093)
Nope, Florida State proved last season you can put up 80 on an opponent and still shut their offense down.

Sure there are exceptions, but what I mentioned in the OP seems to be a trend. Maybe the exceptions can help answer the question?

Gamecocks1137 05-31-2014 01:38 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever (Post 4171095)
Sure there are exceptions, but what I mentioned in the OP seems to be a trend. Maybe the exceptions can help answer the question?

I think what you mean refers to our team. We either have a great offense, and an ok defense, or an ok offense and a great defense. I get the sentiment. A lot of fans this year are about to turn gray in the hair and rip their hair out over our defense. To which I say, why? We have always stepped on defense, and this year is no different. Our offense is predicted to be in the top 3 if not number one in the SEC this year. Yet others still worry. I like to point out Skai Moore. Before last year he was just a high school kid, this year he returns as one of the top LBs in the SEC as a true Sophmore.

USCNowAndForever 05-31-2014 01:59 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamecocks1137 (Post 4171097)
I think what you mean refers to our team. We either have a great offense, and an ok defense, or an ok offense and a great defense. I get the sentiment. A lot of fans this year are about to turn gray in the hair and rip their hair out over our defense. To which I say, why? We have always stepped on defense, and this year is no different. Our offense is predicted to be in the top 3 if not number one in the SEC this year. Yet others still worry. I like to point out Skai Moore. Before last year he was just a high school kid, this year he returns as one of the top LBs in the SEC as a true Sophmore.

I didn't create the OP as a veiled attack on our team. Lol

I think we will be fine this year. We might struggle some on defense, but by the end of the year, I think we will be ok.

I don't think there is a simple answer to the question raised in the OP.

rioninusc 05-31-2014 02:45 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
I think it's more complicated than you're making it out to be. You also forgot to include Special teams. It's the one thing that has kept USC out of the SECCG the past 2 years. I also think that some of those teams listed aren't bad overall, but that their strength overshadows the so called weakness.
BAMA for instance if I had to rate them 1-5 for O/D/ST 1 being bad, 5 being great. I would give them a 4/5/4. They had a solid O, great D, and had a ST that was consistent.

Thenardier 05-31-2014 07:46 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rioninusc (Post 4171122)
I think it's more complicated than you're making it out to be. You also forgot to include Special teams. It's the one thing that has kept USC out of the SECCG the past 2 years. I also think that some of those teams listed aren't bad overall, but that their strength overshadows the so called weakness.
BAMA for instance if I had to rate them 1-5 for O/D/ST 1 being bad, 5 being great. I would give them a 4/5/4. They had a solid O, great D, and had a ST that was consistent.

Until the Iron Bowl. Lol

Flameout12 05-31-2014 07:50 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
You also have to weigh the impact of a particular defense or offense on the outcome of the overall game.

A team with high scoring offense tends to make their defense look bad because the other team has to try and keep up with the shooting match. The loser may score lots of points, gain yds, or create stats that make the team with the potent offense look weak on defense.

And some teams with an offense that maybe could open it up, tend to play more conservative just because they are playing to win....'Bama is the perfect example. 'Bama has not had a weak offense in a long time.

The Yancey 05-31-2014 08:21 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Um, no.

CoverTwo 05-31-2014 09:00 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Probably need to post the turnover margin and time of possession ranking for each school.

cockymac 05-31-2014 09:28 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
The fast paced offenses usually end up scoring quickly, or going 3 and out. Their defense is on the field a lot, and they give up more points that way. They also get tired earlier due to the amount of plays they are on the field for. FSU is one of the few teams that can recruit enough to not have depth issue. Plus, their schedule sucked, so the only decent team they played the whole year was Auburn.

Flameout12 05-31-2014 09:55 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CoverTwo (Post 4171197)
Probably need to post the turnover margin and time of possession ranking for each school.

= huge factors in W-L records

Biocockanics 05-31-2014 10:54 AM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Most teams today put the best athletes on offense, which is why you're seeing such "high flying" offensive numbers, regardless of the style of offense.

Some teams have deep enough talent to evenly distribute this across offense AND defense, couple that with solid, fundamentally sound coaching and some mental discipline result in some truly phenomenal teams.

TerryP 05-31-2014 12:35 PM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Over the last four seasons LSU has had a top 25 scoring offense in two of those years, Bama in four. Just taking last year alone, UofSC came in 31st, LSUrd, and Bama 17th.

Those numbers don't reflect poor offenses.

Several of those teams listed as having weak defenses have been better than average in some years. Clemson finished in the top 25 last year in total defense.

qcgamecock 05-31-2014 01:03 PM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
I think your definition of weak offense and weak defense directly correlates with the ranking of one over the other. if you have a top 25 defense in the country it is far from weak just because your offense is top 10 and vice versa. Most countries are stronger on one side of the ball than the other due to recruiting, some go bigger on D and others O depending on the coach, conference and available talent IMO the biggest factor is the head coach and his philosophies, wide open offenses tend to leave the D on the field a good bit during shootouts and smash mouth football leans to control of the ball and keeping the other offense off the field and skewing the numbers.
I think this is why the average fan says our defense sucks when we are putting up 40 points and allow the other team 27 because we scored quick and they spent 3/4's of the game on the field.

rioninusc 05-31-2014 01:52 PM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenardier (Post 4171159)
Until the Iron Bowl. Lol

Can say the same about Auburn in the NCG, which I think stings more imo. Still consider AU ST pretty good even after that one player tripped against FSU.

COCKYTALKIN 05-31-2014 05:32 PM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
T.O.P. is the most frequent culprit. Not enough TOP from those quick scoring teams wears your defense down.

Goofyboy 05-31-2014 05:44 PM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
I can remember several years when even a decent offense would have moved our defense from top 10-15 in the country to top 2 or 3. During Holtz's first few years (and a couple afterward) our D ranked top 2 or 3 in the SEC while the offense set records for negative yardage plays, ruined field position, and couldn't manage even 2 ot 3 first downs in the 4th quarter to preserve a win. We lost so many games in the second half after leading (because of defense) most of the game. Holtz even said once that it was the better players being on defense, but his son was OC during a horrible 6-7 year run but always paid more then the DC who produced. Three or four years ago, we were in a similar situation, but, but turnovers were also a factor. A good D mainly contributes good field position and opportunities for the offense. A good O keeps the D off the field some, helps field position, and doesn't give up turnover points and back-to-the-wall field position. A good D with an inadequate O finishes many good series only to have to drag back onto the field a few plays later and get blamed if the other team catches them in a mistake or is able to exploit a weakness by having so many shots at them. It's great when both sides can be each other's best ally.

JaxcockFL 05-31-2014 06:01 PM

Re: Debating a team's strengths and weaknesses
 
They tend to direct their quality "Athlete" type players to either offense or defense to provide quality depth depending on which direction the HC goes. Sometimes when they recruit guys that can either be LB / Safety types or WR / Scat back types, they tend to put them on one side of the ball or the other.


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