CockyTalk

CockyTalk (http://www.cockytalk.com/index.php)
-   The Cock Pit (http://www.cockytalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win (http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=207818)

yazoo 07-08-2014 07:08 PM

Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
It is interesting that we can go into Clemson's home field, which is a very good football environment, and beat them. But Clemson cannot come into WB and win. My theory is that the SEC gives us a great advantage.

Clemson's football team really never sees an environment anything close to our environment. Maybe if they go to Va Tech, it might get somewhat close to playing at WB. Therefore, when they come into our stadium and are confronted with the loud, crazy atmosphere we present to them, they get rattled and lose. They simply are not used to it.

We, on the other hand, have to go on the road and play in places like Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, or Auburn. All of those schools have more intimidating environments than Clemson's field. Thus, when we go to their home field, we are more confident and less easily intimidated . . . and we win.

Maybe this should be smack, but I am not sure if stating facts constitute smack.

Regalcock 07-08-2014 07:40 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yazoo (Post 4198154)
It is interesting that we can go into Clemson's home field, which is a very good football environment, and beat them. But Clemson cannot come into WB and win. My theory is that the SEC gives us a great advantage.

Clemson's football team really never sees an environment anything close to our environment. Maybe if they go to Va Tech, it might get somewhat close to playing at WB. Therefore, when they come into our stadium and are confronted with the loud, crazy atmosphere we present to them, they get rattled and lose. They simply are not used to it.

We, on the other hand, have to go on the road and play in places like Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, or Auburn. All of those schools have more intimidating environments than Clemson's field. Thus, when we go to their home field, we are more confident and less easily intimidated . . . and we win.

Maybe this should be smack, but I am not sure if stating facts constitute smack.

I don't think it's dealing with the loud fans as much as it's dealing with physical teams week in and week out. Even the lower rated teams in the SEC will hit you in the mouth but in the acc your wr's can run over the safety with ease.

Clemson also looked uncomfortable having traffic around them when they play us. In most acc games they could simply run a bubble screen for a first down whenever they wanted to. Plenty of space to roam.

Take-a-Knee 07-08-2014 07:42 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
I agree , we have SEC muscle now with plenty more room to grow ..

Lalli25 07-08-2014 08:11 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Take-a-Knee (Post 4198164)
I agree , we have SEC muscle now with plenty more room to grow ..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regalcock (Post 4198162)
I don't think it's dealing with the loud fans as much as it's dealing with physical teams week in and week out. Even the lower rated teams in the SEC will hit you in the mouth but in the acc your wr's can run over the safety with ease.

Clemson also looked uncomfortable having traffic around them when they play us. In most acc games they could simply run a bubble screen for a first down whenever they wanted to. Plenty of space to roam.

I agree our physicality definitely is the difference, but it isn't just from playing in the SEC, or we'd have been doing this since the 90's. I think we have finally gotten the depth on the roster to survive the SEC schedule and come into the Clemson game with the advantage the tough grind has created. Before our starters were good enough to play with anyone but after a few injuries and whatnot, we weren't nearly as good as we could be. On the other hand, Clemson was playing a less demanding schedule which allowed them to play at a higher level than USC.

Also never underestimate what winning does for end of season performance. The same team at 6-5 plays totally different than if they won a couple close games and are 9-2. The confidence and excitement is there for game 12 that wouldn't be there with a 6-5 team.

Drunkeneskimofo 07-08-2014 08:23 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
I think we have superior coaching.

Goofyboy 07-08-2014 08:30 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
From my view. each game lately has been different, but we beat them in the trenches. They stacked the box this past year in at least 4 games and the 2 really good teams (us and FSU) made them pay. They weren't used to the strength up front, and their QB got rattled. Watson was practically a non-factor, because our team speed negated the WR screen he ate off of all year. Year before, our DL pressured, they decided to stop our running game and got beaten by a balanced attack (3 TD's passing and over 300 yds). Dabo said after this year's game they beat us everywhere but the scoreboard, so apparently he wasn't watching the game. It just seems to boil down to winning up front and not being one-dimensional.
I agree that the week-by-week slugfest we call a schedule better prepares us for tough games, but it also takes its toll physically on players. They seldom hold us below our scoring average; we hold them well below theirs.

cockymac 07-08-2014 08:31 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Better talent on the DL. That's why I'm scared for this year. Our DL is totally a question mark.

CockyCody 07-08-2014 08:33 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
I think that all of you have great and well thought out reasons as to why we win! However, I also believe all of you put way too much effort into it and over-estimate our upstate opponent. I think that we win because they just down right suck!

:kill::puke::wink:

TAFC 5 1981 07-08-2014 08:37 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Its more how CU and SC matched up lately. From 1981 to 2007, CU lost only twice in WB. In 92, 94, and 96, SC won at DV. And as I have posted before, aside from the recent games vs. SC, you have to go back to 2008 vs. Bama to find a game that CU was manhandled by an SEC team. Y'all don't have to give all the credit to the SEC. I can't remember seeing CU get manhandled worst than they were by FSU last year.

Spurticus 07-08-2014 08:43 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
I'm convinced that the freshman Class of 2009 was the key to what
turned this program and the rivalry around, and in our favor. It goes (IMO)
beyond just the talent in that class. We've had talented Classes in the
past. I think we found a group of leaders in that class that pass on the
right kind of instructions to those that came behind them. ... I also think
very strongly that the core was the talented kids we pulled in from this
state. Stephon Gilmore, Devonte Holloman, Damario Jeffery, Alshon Jeffery,
DJ Swearinger, Justice Cunningham .... Grew up steeped in the rivalry, and
were highly recruited by both schools. Once they signed with SC, they knew
well about the Clemson/SC game and got busy putting their talent towards
making the Gamecocks the better school in the rivalry game. They
came from a time in SC football where a lot of their rivals in HS and
even some on their own team, went to Clemson, so there was an added
incentive to prove they were not only the better player in the State in
HS, but could take that to the next level against their rivals in college.

Whatever it was, I know it was that class that sparked the program, and
gave Spurrier a twinkle in his eye about play calling with a very deep and
very talented team.

I said for years when talking about the Clemson / Carolina rivalry that
in order for us to turn it around, SC would need to run off three / four
wins in a row, and I said at the time, that one of them would have to
be a "DECISIVE" win (by 25-30 points or more). We didn't get that major
blowout I thought we needed, but running off 5 in a row by double digit
margins, against the best team Clemson has put together since Danny
Ford and the 80s, was a HUGE Factor in SC's ability to change what
was in regards to the rivalry game from our standpoint. I really think it
was 80% mental most of those years. It took a run of 3-4 games and
all by more than 10 points to get the old way of approaching the game
out of the player's heads, and now they approach it as "we are the
better program in this rivalry and this state, and if you want to change
that...... better pack a lunch and plan on some overtime"

It would be ridiculous to say we will never lose again. .. .We will lose
a game at some point soon. But I would be willing to bet that we've
seen then end of those 3/1 -4/1 Clemson win ratios again. This rivalry
will become more of a rivalry from this point forward, and I think the
class of 2009 was the foundation of the turnaround.

MisterClowney 07-08-2014 09:23 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
It's because Clemson ****ing blows.

cocksmith1or11 07-08-2014 09:28 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterClowney (Post 4198219)
It's because Clemson ****ing blows.


/thread

2000grad 07-08-2014 09:37 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
In the last 5 years, we've scored more. ..my theory. :-)

In all seriousness , i think it is a combination of many of the posted factors

Coulwoodwarlord 07-08-2014 09:52 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurticus (Post 4198198)
I'm convinced that the freshman Class of 2009 was the key to what
turned this program and the rivalry around, and in our favor. It goes (IMO)
beyond just the talent in that class. We've had talented Classes in the
past. I think we found a group of leaders in that class that pass on the
right kind of instructions to those that came behind them. ... I also think
very strongly that the core was the talented kids we pulled in from this
state. Stephon Gilmore, Devonte Holloman, Damario Jeffery, Alshon Jeffery,
DJ Swearinger, Justice Cunningham .... Grew up steeped in the rivalry, and
were highly recruited by both schools. Once they signed with SC, they knew
well about the Clemson/SC game and got busy putting their talent towards
making the Gamecocks the better school in the rivalry game. They
came from a time in SC football where a lot of their rivals in HS and
even some on their own team, went to Clemson, so there was an added
incentive to prove they were not only the better player in the State in
HS, but could take that to the next level against their rivals in college.

Whatever it was, I know it was that class that sparked the program, and
gave Spurrier a twinkle in his eye about play calling with a very deep and
very talented team.

I said for years when talking about the Clemson / Carolina rivalry that
in order for us to turn it around, SC would need to run off three / four
wins in a row, and I said at the time, that one of them would have to
be a "DECISIVE" win (by 25-30 points or more). We didn't get that major
blowout I thought we needed, but running off 5 in a row by double digit
margins, against the best team Clemson has put together since Danny
Ford and the 80s, was a HUGE Factor in SC's ability to change what
was in regards to the rivalry game from our standpoint. I really think it
was 80% mental most of those years. It took a run of 3-4 games and
all by more than 10 points to get the old way of approaching the game
out of the player's heads, and now they approach it as "we are the
better program in this rivalry and this state, and if you want to change
that...... better pack a lunch and plan on some overtime"

It would be ridiculous to say we will never lose again. .. .We will lose
a game at some point soon. But I would be willing to bet that we've
seen then end of those 3/1 -4/1 Clemson win ratios again. This rivalry
will become more of a rivalry from this point forward, and I think the
class of 2009 was the foundation of the turnaround.

I do think it is about mind set now. Ours and theirs. If you would have asked me two years ago when we went into the Valley with Thompson, I would have told you we had them beat before we even stepped onto the field. I truly believed that. There wasn't a question in my mind at home last year.
And now, as another date in the Valley approaches, I have no fear, nor trepidation. We believe, therefore we are. They have the clock, we need no such mind games, we just need to bring it.

Spurticus 07-08-2014 10:07 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coulwoodwarlord (Post 4198231)
I do think it is about mind set now. Ours and theirs. If you would have asked me two years ago when we went into the Valley with Thompson, I would have told you we had them beat before we even stepped onto the field. I truly believed that. There wasn't a question in my mind at home last year.
And now, as another date in the Valley approaches, I have no fear, nor trepidation. We believe, therefore we are. They have the clock, we need no such mind games, we just need to bring it.


That was my opinion for years as to why Clemson owned the rivalry.
I think with so many kids on the team that grew up in, played HS in
and wanted to stay IN THE STATE, they knew pretty much everything
about the rivalry. They've heard it from their parents, their friends, their
school mates, the local media ...... They knew Clemson dominated the
rivalry for decades, and when they went to play for the teams, those
that went to SC were saturated with the fact that THEY Were now the
class that was on the line to change the rivalry, or continue to be
beaten down. .... When one little thing in the game went wrong, I think
it was almost a team wide OH F*** moment, ... Like, Here we go again.

NOW.. since those classes from 2009 and 2010 started winning, and
became the first team since 1970 to win back to back games... then
the first since that 1968-1970 class not to lose to SC. Not only just
the fact that they won, but won by double digit margins each year.
They were the first class to win four consecutive games for SC since
the late 40s / Early 50s and they established in the lower classmen,
the feeling of being the better program in the rivalry. .. Those teams
are now in the process of setting new records in the rivalry for Carolina
and the goal is well within reach to set new records in the State Game
over both teams. ..... in the process, we now have the mindset every
year of being the better team, and when those little things go wrong,
our guys don't get nervous ... have that OH S**T moment... now they
just play through the mistakes and overcome them (at least they have
the past few years) it seems they are now of the mindset they are
as good as anyone they play..... INCLUDING CLEMSON

TAFC 5 1981 07-08-2014 10:28 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
I also credit the 2010 Baseball team. Seems like some of the positive confident attitude rubbed off on the Football team. Both sports have talent.

robgusc76 07-08-2014 10:42 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Its all a head game. There was a time where Clemson KNEW it was going to beat South Carolina, didn't matter if South Carolina was undefeated and Clemson hadn't lost a game, Clemson KNEW it was going to beat South Carolina. Well, now the tide has turned and the shoe is on the other foot.

Dabo Swiney is a heck of a recruiter, and a heck of a program figure head, but he is not "mentally tough" as my coach would say, and the team feeds off of that. Right now, Dabo can't convince himself that he is better than South Carolina. And to be a coach, you have to think you're better than everyone, it doesn't matter if you're not, you gotta think you're the best.

Clemson fans can say what they want and deny that South Carolina doesn't have a permanent spot in the head of Swinney, but the countdown clocks in the meeting rooms say all yo need to say.

Flameout12 07-08-2014 10:53 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofyboy (Post 4198189)
From my view. each game lately has been different, but we beat them in the trenches.

Specifically our DL...the first 4 wins our DL was pretty dominant, with 2011 being the best one of the 5 wins. In '09, our speed on defense was dominant.

I give them credit in '13 for doing a better job in the trenches on both sides, but they self destructed last season and we really weren't pushed into getting out of our game plan. My only regret is the one year we ran Marcus against them, we just went conservative because we had the SECCG the following week. I would have loved for them have to played Marcus with a mature Connor Shaw together on the same team.

henmania 07-08-2014 11:26 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurticus (Post 4198236)
That was my opinion for years as to why Clemson owned the rivalry.
I think with so many kids on the team that grew up in, played HS in
and wanted to stay IN THE STATE, they knew pretty much everything
about the rivalry. They've heard it from their parents, their friends, their
school mates, the local media ...... They knew Clemson dominated the
rivalry for decades, and when they went to play for the teams, those
that went to SC were saturated with the fact that THEY Were now the
class that was on the line to change the rivalry, or continue to be
beaten down. .... When one little thing in the game went wrong, I think
it was almost a team wide OH F*** moment, ... Like, Here we go again.

NOW.. since those classes from 2009 and 2010 started winning, and
became the first team since 1970 to win back to back games... then
the first since that 1968-1970 class not to lose to SC. Not only just
the fact that they won, but won by double digit margins each year.
They were the first class to win four consecutive games for SC since
the late 40s / Early 50s and they established in the lower classmen,
the feeling of being the better program in the rivalry. .. Those teams
are now in the process of setting new records in the rivalry for Carolina
and the goal is well within reach to set new records in the State Game
over both teams. ..... in the process, we now have the mindset every
year of being the better team, and when those little things go wrong,
our guys don't get nervous ... have that OH S**T moment... now they
just play through the mistakes and overcome them (at least they have
the past few years) it seems they are now of the mindset they are
as good as anyone they play..... INCLUDING CLEMSON

FWIW, I asked Spurrier this question after the 2012 season when we won our 4th in a row. He said we had better depth now than we did before. We have enough depth to go through a brutal SEC schedule and still have more talent on the field than Clempson. Moreover, he felt several of the years prior to 2009 we had the better team to start the season but nothing left when the Clempson game rolled around. What gives me confidence this year is that we have the most returning letterman of any college team in major football. Think about that.

usc1 07-08-2014 11:30 PM

Re: Theory On Why Clemson Loses and We Win
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameout12 (Post 4198267)
Specifically our DL...the first 4 wins our DL was pretty dominant, with 2011 being the best one of the 5 wins. In '09, our speed on defense was dominant.

I give them credit in '13 for doing a better job in the trenches on both sides, but they self destructed last season and we really weren't pushed into getting out of our game plan. My only regret is the one year we ran Marcus against them, we just went conservative because we had the SECCG the following week. I would have loved for them have to played Marcus with a mature Connor Shaw together on the same team.

Their DL has caught up with ours and I would say is probably going to be better than ours this year. On the other hand our OL should be better than theirs so it evens out. The trenches argument is no longer valid, at least for this year. And to be honest, the trenches neutralized last year as well.

I think the OP hit the nail on the head. We are battle tested and we play the BIG games regularly. Clemson has a difficult time transitioning from playing Wake and NC State to us.

Our guys also just seem to KNOW they're going to win, just like Clemson back in the day.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.