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-   -   3-4 "D" Keep it or Not (http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=209781)

Cruzer 09-02-2014 01:13 PM

3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
A couple of questions here. The 3-4 defense can't be that bad, so it was us right? Do we keep it & continue to workout the bugs or scrap it & go to another "D"?
What was ours last year & why did we change this year? (Sorry, just don't remember).

If we keep it & our Players fail at it again then we fall behind several weeks trying to get another Defensive scheme put in place by mid season. The fans will be calling for Coaching heads & it could be a 5 win year. Hell, could be a 5 win year no matter what D we install.
:grin:

purebredcock 09-02-2014 01:21 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
I don't care as long as we scrap the prevent defense. You can run our "cover 5" out of any formation. Some ppl call it bend but don't break, but if they just nickel and dime you and end up with a score anyway then it "bend and then break"
Defend the first 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, no matter the formation.

southerntramp 09-02-2014 01:29 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
We don't have the MONSTERS upfront and particularly with the LB's inside...I think it was an asinine idea,,,still scratching my head why it was thought of and then supported by USC

sunbeam 09-02-2014 01:46 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Geez, another problem is going to rear it's head in the Georgia game. My suspicion is we are going to be very susceptible to the run this year.

It is kind of an impression of mine, but usually when you see that many missed tackles it is something that takes a lot of the season to work out, if it does get fixed that season.

And before you blame coaching, well you can easily find things to blame, but it is very hard I think to project the kind of tackler a guy will be in college. Sometimes it is like a teabag.

But we are going to face some running teams, and I'm not so sure the 3-4 isn't the best formation we could throw up. Best of a bad deal. I guess it depends on whether you think the lb's or dl has more upside. I'd say the lb's, so I say 3-4. But they have no business not playing the bigger guys on dl if they do. English and Harris aren't going to do much of anything playing de on running downs in a 3-4.

And guys they don't seem to play much like Dukes and Green need to get shots to see exactly what they can do in a game. I am kind of fed up with this base absolutely everything on practice. Most of the time it works, but some guys are just game players and not practice stars. Put them in, see what they can do, and if they don't produce you haven't lost anything. It is getting awful late in their careers to see what they can do, and they have the size to play in a 3 man, at least at de.

purebredcock 09-02-2014 01:54 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
I've thought the same thing sunbeam, even tho am torched us with the pass, all other teams in this conference are content with just running it if you let em

ReadR00ster 09-02-2014 01:59 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by purebredcock (Post 4247005)
I don't care as long as we scrap the prevent defense. You can run our "cover 5" out of any formation. Some ppl call it bend but don't break, but if they just nickel and dime you and end up with a score anyway then it "bend and then break"
Defend the first 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, no matter the formation.

No defense works if you don't have players that can play it. They didn't "nickel and dime" us to death because we played the wrong defensive strategy. Our defense is bad because they are a bunch of newbs out there with bad instincts and bad tackling and they haven't gelled as a unit. It does not matter one iota where our DBs line up because they can not cover receivers as talented and as athletic as A&M's with their QB making perfect passes.

Stop guessing at what defense is going to work. It's our coaches job to try to figure it out.

Cruzer 09-02-2014 02:05 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by purebredcock (Post 4247005)
I don't care as long as we scrap the prevent defense. You can run our "cover 5" out of any formation. Some ppl call it bend but don't break, but if they just nickel and dime you and end up with a score anyway then it "bend and then break"
Defend the first 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, no matter the formation.

I can't count how many times I've watch NFL teams go to the Prevent Defense with the lead & lose the game. I hate it.

ReadR00ster 09-02-2014 02:06 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbeam (Post 4247034)
Geez, another problem is going to rear it's head in the Georgia game. My suspicion is we are going to be very susceptible to the run this year.

It is kind of an impression of mine, but usually when you see that many missed tackles it is something that takes a lot of the season to work out, if it does get fixed that season.

And before you blame coaching, well you can easily find things to blame, but it is very hard I think to project the kind of tackler a guy will be in college. Sometimes it is like a teabag.

But we are going to face some running teams, and I'm not so sure the 3-4 isn't the best formation we could throw up. Best of a bad deal. I guess it depends on whether you think the lb's or dl has more upside. I'd say the lb's, so I say 3-4. But they have no business not playing the bigger guys on dl if they do. English and Harris aren't going to do much of anything playing de on running downs in a 3-4.

And guys they don't seem to play much like Dukes and Green need to get shots to see exactly what they can do in a game. I am kind of fed up with this base absolutely everything on practice. Most of the time it works, but some guys are just game players and not practice stars. Put them in, see what they can do, and if they don't produce you haven't lost anything. It is getting awful late in their careers to see what they can do, and they have the size to play in a 3 man, at least at de.

I'm going to blame to coaches, because it's their responsibility. I don't want hear excuses about hard it is to project players to college. That doesn't fly in this business. You recruit them, you coach, you put them on the field and call the defense. That is a reflection of your coaching abilities out there.

Last year we didn't have enough linebackers and we had to recruit a bunch and play freshmen. It cost us in the UGA game because they weren't up to speed. This year is DEs and CBs and most of the DEs didn't even make it in. We can't keep having these holes on our team and try to fill them with Freshman. We need guys ready to go day one across the board. Not doing this is a major fail by our coaches. There is no denying it.

ReadR00ster 09-02-2014 02:09 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruzer (Post 4247064)
I can't count how many times I've watch NFL teams go to the Prevent Defense with the lead & lose the game. I hate it.

We weren't playing prevent defense. Stop listening to that garbage.

The'Boose2001 09-02-2014 02:10 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunbeam (Post 4247034)
Geez, another problem is going to rear it's head in the Georgia game. My suspicion is we are going to be very susceptible to the run this year.

It is kind of an impression of mine, but usually when you see that many missed tackles it is something that takes a lot of the season to work out, if it does get fixed that season.

And before you blame coaching, well you can easily find things to blame, but it is very hard I think to project the kind of tackler a guy will be in college. Sometimes it is like a teabag.

But we are going to face some running teams, and I'm not so sure the 3-4 isn't the best formation we could throw up. Best of a bad deal. I guess it depends on whether you think the lb's or dl has more upside. I'd say the lb's, so I say 3-4. But they have no business not playing the bigger guys on dl if they do. English and Harris aren't going to do much of anything playing de on running downs in a 3-4.

And guys they don't seem to play much like Dukes and Green need to get shots to see exactly what they can do in a game. I am kind of fed up with this base absolutely everything on practice. Most of the time it works, but some guys are just game players and not practice stars. Put them in, see what they can do, and if they don't produce you haven't lost anything. It is getting awful late in their careers to see what they can do, and they have the size to play in a 3 man, at least at de.

Good point. If we don't stop the bleeding between now and Georgia, we are in for one long game.

I feel like we should scrap the 3 and go back to the 4 - if nothing else, play both packages.

Ahmad 09-02-2014 02:51 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The'Boose2001 (Post 4247074)
Good point. If we don't stop the bleeding between now and Georgia, we are in for one long game.

I feel like we should scrap the 3 and go back to the 4 - if nothing else, play both packages.

We played a little of both in that A&M game.

Toneski 09-02-2014 03:02 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Seems like every time I tried to figure out what defense we were in I counted 3 guys with their hands on the ground and then at each end was a guy standing up at the LOS. We had 5 guys at the LOS.

What would you call that defense? Surely we weren't trying to stop the run every time I counted.....we were getting torched through the air. Were those two LB's at the LOS faking a blitz, or maybe one intended to blitz?

USC843 09-02-2014 03:20 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
The simple fact is that the coaches want our freshman linebackers out there more than the guys on the Dline. That is what the 3-4 is for. If that doesnt give you some indication of how bad our Dline personnel is, then you have a blindfold on.

USC843 09-02-2014 03:22 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toneski (Post 4247109)
Seems like every time I tried to figure out what defense we were in I counted 3 guys with their hands on the ground and then at each end was a guy standing up at the LOS. We had 5 guys at the LOS.

What would you call that defense? Surely we weren't trying to stop the run every time I counted.....we were getting torched through the air. Were those two LB's at the LOS faking a blitz, or maybe one intended to blitz?

Thats what the 3-4 is. 3 down linemen, and two outside edge rushers that are linebackers. Sometimes an OLB will back off into coverage, or he will rush. Thats how a 3-4 works. It eliminates a D-lineman and replaces him with a linebacker.

NAGamecockFan 09-02-2014 03:43 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Try and use that 3-4 against Georgia and Gurley and Chubb will have a field day. They very well may anyway, but still. I'm not impressed with Mason at all. Make him win the game.

CockyLifer 09-02-2014 03:51 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ReadR00ster (Post 4247072)
We weren't playing prevent defense. Stop listening to that garbage.

What do you call it then playing soft zone keep them in front of you as well as the 10-20 yard cushion.

CockyLifer 09-02-2014 03:53 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NAGamecockFan (Post 4247150)
Try and use that 3-4 against Georgia and Gurley and Chubb will have a field day. They very well may anyway, but still. I'm not impressed with Mason at all. Make him win the game.

It will be a long game.

cack 09-02-2014 03:59 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Doesn't matter if you keep it or not, but you have to put pressure on the outside if you only bring 3. Doesn't matter how many you have up or down. You have to have pressure SOMEWHERE.

Biocockanics 09-02-2014 04:07 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
we're not a 3-4 defense. We added some 3-4 elements to our base package. I dont know where people came to this conclusion that our defense changed entirely....its strange.

We played our base package with some wrinkles for much of the first half, idk what everyone else was watching.

PageUSC 09-02-2014 04:15 PM

Re: 3-4 "D" Keep it or Not
 
Yes keep it for spread teams. It's literally useless to have 2 DTs in the game against a team that is just spreading it out and making quick passes.

We won't run it against UGA.


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