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hardcoregamecock 09-03-2014 01:49 PM

Misconceptions about coverages
 
I think most people think that the players set up in a particular defense be it 3/4 or 4/3 or 5/2 and have freedom to decide how they cover their guy.

This isn't so.
Of course their is the man or zone assignment with the option to design for particular cover guys to spy or a safety to determine which side of the field to cover, but each set has a soft or hard or jam option that is predetermined.

When those guys play off in a soft coverage it isn't their decision. It is predetermined and called by the D coordinators.

After the play is snapped and the ball is released then yes they will adjust but if you are already playing your soft coverage assignment, you are already at a major disadvantage with your angle off attack and closing time.

We need to be on our coaches for this poor play calling. It was PAINFULLY obvious that we needed to jamb the receivers and force that qb to make a much more difficult throw down field if anyone broke free.
This can open you up to being blocked on a toss sweep play but it beats just letting them soft toss 10 yarders down the field on you.
You DO have the option to mix it up once they stop the short crap.

yazoo 09-03-2014 02:33 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcoregamecock (Post 4248095)
I think most people think that the players set up in a particular defense be it 3/4 or 4/3 or 5/2 and have freedom to decide how they cover their guy.

This isn't so.
Of course their is the man or zone assignment with the option to design for particular cover guys to spy or a safety to determine which side of the field to cover, but each set has a soft or hard or jam option that is predetermined.

When those guys play off in a soft coverage it isn't their decision. It is predetermined and called by the D coordinators.

After the play is snapped and the ball is released then yes they will adjust but if you are already playing your soft coverage assignment, you are already at a major disadvantage with your angle off attack and closing time.

We need to be on our coaches for this poor play calling. It was PAINFULLY obvious that we needed to jamb the receivers and force that qb to make a much more difficult throw down field if anyone broke free.
This can open you up to being blocked on a toss sweep play but it beats just letting them soft toss 10 yarders down the field on you.
You DO have the option to mix it up once they stop the short crap.

I saw one play where Al Harris Jr. was deployed to jam the A&M receiver (11?). 11 beat the press man coverage and scored an easy TD. So maybe your just wrong about your coaching staff critique.

hardcoregamecock 09-03-2014 05:56 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Ahh I see. U saw one play.
I saw about 50 plays where soft coverage gave up significant yardage with at least 5 allowing TDs.
I don't remember this phantom play of yours but if it happened I can see why ud rather give 5 times that amount of TDs playing soft coverage. Makes sense....

Not to mention the point of the post completely escaped u. The players don't call their individual assignments they just execute what is called as side from a team captain making an adjustment.
U should try being less rude.

TheGameCockFanOfY 09-03-2014 06:07 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcoregamecock (Post 4248095)
I think most people think that the players set up in a particular defense be it 3/4 or 4/3 or 5/2 and have freedom to decide how they cover their guy.

This isn't so.
Of course their is the man or zone assignment with the option to design for particular cover guys to spy or a safety to determine which side of the field to cover, but each set has a soft or hard or jam option that is predetermined.

When those guys play off in a soft coverage it isn't their decision. It is predetermined and called by the D coordinators.

After the play is snapped and the ball is released then yes they will adjust but if you are already playing your soft coverage assignment, you are already at a major disadvantage with your angle off attack and closing time.

We need to be on our coaches for this poor play calling. It was PAINFULLY obvious that we needed to jamb the receivers and force that qb to make a much more difficult throw down field if anyone broke free.
This can open you up to being blocked on a toss sweep play but it beats just letting them soft toss 10 yarders down the field on you.
You DO have the option to mix it up once they stop the short crap.

I appreciate the post, and I think you do make some good points. Having said that, I saw us play the receivers more aggressively serveral times and the receiver got by it quickly only to be wide open. I'm not convinced that doing it more would have helped.

Good point about it being a coach's decision instead of on the player. I have heard people get that confused before. :clap:

cockybreeyan 09-03-2014 06:10 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcoregamecock (Post 4248403)
Ahh I see. U saw one play.
I saw about 50 plays where soft coverage gave up significant yardage with at least 5 allowing TDs.
I don't remember this phantom play of yours but if it happened I can see why ud rather give 5 times that amount of TDs playing soft coverage. Makes sense....

Not to mention the point of the post completely escaped u. The players don't call their individual assignments they just execute what is called as side from a team captain making an adjustment.
U should try being less rude.

How can you not remember the Al Harris play? It was awful. Just awful.

I do agree that it is mostly on the coaches, but when you play that badly, it falls on everyone.

kabercr2 09-03-2014 06:18 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Al Harris did get blown by on a fade route for TD, but I do agree that we need to play more bump and run. If your going to get beat, dont get beat by letting teams nickel and dime you down the field for 5-6 minutes. Make them man up and beat you straight up.

hardcoregamecock 09-03-2014 06:30 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kabercr2 (Post 4248419)
Al Harris did get blown by on a fade route for TD, but I do agree that we need to play more bump and run. If your going to get beat, dont get beat by letting teams nickel and dime you down the field for 5-6 minutes. Make them man up and beat you straight up.

Well put.
Bump coverage works well if u get pressure which is why the 3 man front isn't getting it for whatever reason

USCfootball 09-03-2014 07:09 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
I posted before the season started after the depth chart was released about questioning Al Harris starting. All the responses were....

"his dad tought him how to play"
"he has a pedigree....he will be fine"

I can provide the post if anyone doesn't believe. Al Harris, Jr. is a 160 lb true freshman playing one of the most difficult positions in college football. Believe me aTm won't be the only team to roast him this year.

But why....WHY...don't we have better corners on this team?? It's the coaches fault!!! We need a relentless recruiter and we will be in 10 and 11 win seasons of mediocrity until a change is made. I love SOS....he is a legend and he deserves to stay as long as he wants. But he is old hat, he got his at FLA and is not hungry. PLAIN AND SIMPLE

MDCox 09-03-2014 07:22 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
I think you guys are both right. I remember several times we jammed the receiver, but they still completed the pass or one side was jamming their receiver and the other side was playing soft. I remember one time before the ball was snapped they went back to into a very soft prevent it looked like. The pass was easily completed for 10+ yards.

For the most part they did not get beat long and it appears they were trying to keep the ball in front of them. Whatever defense they were in it was horrible. It was the worst pass defense I have ever seen at USC. I think the problem is no rush. Remember Spurrier has lost 5 games or more when he does not have Clowney on defense. No pass rush equals a lot of time to complete passes. In 2 years the defense will be good again, but this year it will be pretty bad based on what I saw. It's the scheme and the players. No Clowney will expose this defense.

If you let offense get the 5 and 10 yard passes you have to force the turnover on 2 or 3 possessions to win games. You just can't sit back and not tackle or hit hard in that type of defense.

gamecock88 09-03-2014 07:58 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Great post Hardcore. I agree on the 10 yard gimmes we gave them most of the night. Did see a few times we tried to jam them and it was beat as well for a td once as stated above but for most of the times we played very soft coverage showing a lack of confidence in the young DBs. Let them get beat one on one but they shouldn't be asked to defend a play the coaches had already conceded. Please continue to post regardless what the post majority here or the coaches are always right group argues.

ReadR00ster 09-03-2014 08:08 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
I prefer that they keep trying to keep everything in front of them, but make tackles they've been missing. It's got nothing to do with backing up the coaches. It's just the style I prefer, especially for Freshman DBSs This way they at least know when the balls is coming their way. These young guys haven't been tought all these jam techniques and proper body position to avoid PI in coverage yet.

Cocked & Locked 09-03-2014 08:10 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Ok I see that you want to see them jam the receivers at the LOS but the reason they were in soft coverage was that their receivers were a lot faster than our cover guys - period. The Al Harris TD would have happened all night if the corners were to play tighter.

Second the 3-4 is not going to work. We have not recruited properly for that format. Also tell me when you see a 3-4 with zone coverage?

Lastly, your comments are appreciated about our coaching staff, however the coaches have done an excellent job but it is up to the players to execute. Our defense looked lost through out the whole game. They lined up correctly but plain and simple they were getting their asses handed to them and being beat all night.

The biggest problem we had was finishing the tackle. Our guys couldn't tackle worth a damn. I am so tired of seeing these kids try to shoulder tackle, or strip the ball, or just try to push the guy out of bounds. Where's the effort? What happen to wrapping your arms around a guy a pulling him down or holding on until you get help. Where's the help. To many of our guys were standing there watching instead of running across the field to fall on a fumble or help out with a tackle.

That is out problem.

hardcoregamecock 09-03-2014 09:07 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocked & Locked (Post 4248471)
Ok I see that you want to see them jam the receivers at the LOS but the reason they were in soft coverage was that their receivers were a lot faster than our cover guys - period. The Al Harris TD would have happened all night if the corners were to play tighter.

Second the 3-4 is not going to work. We have not recruited properly for that format. Also tell me when you see a 3-4 with zone coverage?

Lastly, your comments are appreciated about our coaching staff, however the coaches have done an excellent job but it is up to the players to execute. Our defense looked lost through out the whole game. They lined up correctly but plain and simple they were getting their asses handed to them and being beat all night.

The biggest problem we had was finishing the tackle. Our guys couldn't tackle worth a damn. I am so tired of seeing these kids try to shoulder tackle, or strip the ball, or just try to push the guy out of bounds. Where's the effort? What happen to wrapping your arms around a guy a pulling him down or holding on until you get help. Where's the help. To many of our guys were standing there watching instead of running across the field to fall on a fumble or help out with a tackle.

That is out problem.

Yea I agree that we have not invested in the personnel for the 3/4. It seems as though it was an option of the lesser of two evils in their minds.
Our tackling was horrible in general but greatly worsened by poor pursuit angles that originated from poor positioning relative to she short crap routs being called all night.
I would still rather force their qb to throw accurately on deeper routes than 5 and 10 yard demoralizing gimmes all night.
At least with potentially giving up deeper routes you can blitz more and force a tougher and quicker decision.
I still thing it would take a year or two for the 3/4 to be something we would become effective with just as it did with UGA.

GSC2013 09-03-2014 09:29 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by USCfootball (Post 4248436)
I posted before the season started after the depth chart was released about questioning Al Harris starting. All the responses were....

"his dad tought him how to play"
"he has a pedigree....he will be fine"

I can provide the post if anyone doesn't believe. Al Harris, Jr. is a 160 lb true freshman playing one of the most difficult positions in college football. Believe me aTm won't be the only team to roast him this year.

But why....WHY...don't we have better corners on this team?? It's the coaches fault!!! We need a relentless recruiter and we will be in 10 and 11 win seasons of mediocrity until a change is made. I love SOS....he is a legend and he deserves to stay as long as he wants. But he is old hat, he got his at FLA and is not hungry. PLAIN AND SIMPLE

You are EXACTLY right. We have been spoiled by Marcus Lattimore and Clowney.

95% of freshmen have NO BUSINESS being on the field for anything but special teams. College football at ANY level, even FCS or D2, is such a HUGE step up from high school.

So, sticking a kid who was at the prom 4 months ago....into a 1-on-1 situation in an SEC game? Yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen. There aren't many like Lattimore or Clowney who can step in and hang right away. And even Clowney needed a year to blossom.

Is it the coaching staff's fault that there were not any DB's on this roster ready to play? Partly. Hampton should NOT have gone pro. And Auguste transferred. SO I guess yeah, they should have kinda seen this coming a bit.

NinjaSven 09-03-2014 09:59 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
I'm under the impression that it really didn't matter what play we called, the A&M receivers were going to torture us all night. They looked that good.

Sircock 09-03-2014 10:44 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GSC2013 (Post 4248525)
You are EXACTLY right. We have been spoiled by Marcus Lattimore and Clowney.

95% of freshmen have NO BUSINESS being on the field for anything but special teams. College football at ANY level, even FCS or D2, is such a HUGE step up from high school.

So, sticking a kid who was at the prom 4 months ago....into a 1-on-1 situation in an SEC game? Yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen. There aren't many like Lattimore or Clowney who can step in and hang right away. And even Clowney needed a year to blossom.

Is it the coaching staff's fault that there were not any DB's on this roster ready to play? Partly. Hampton should NOT have gone pro. And Auguste transferred. SO I guess yeah, they should have kinda seen this coming a bit.

Auguste transferred? when did this happen?

eightohhthree 09-03-2014 10:45 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GSC2013 (Post 4248525)

Is it the coaching staff's fault that there were not any DB's on this roster ready to play? Partly. Hampton should NOT have gone pro. And Auguste transferred. SO I guess yeah, they should have kinda seen this coming a bit.

Amhad Christian?

cocksmith1or11 09-03-2014 11:03 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
I kinda gave up on the defensive play calling when I watched the DB's in "soft zone" on a 3rd and 8. They were at least 12-15 yards deep..... I was literally screaming. After that conversion the game got out of hand, that is when I gave up and put all my faith in the offense hanging with them..... but then on 3rd and SHORT AS F### we air it out into double coverage. Mind blowing.

you would think with the "BEST offensive line SOS has ever had" at SC we could run a half a freaking yard.

cocksmith1or11 09-03-2014 11:05 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sircock (Post 4248584)
Auguste transferred? when did this happen?


maybe he meant graduated?

robgusc76 09-03-2014 11:07 PM

Re: Misconceptions about coverages
 
I dont know much about a coverages, im an Olineman, but I know playing off the receivers 8-10 yards every play didnt help the cause.


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