Lebron James place in history with his current resume at this point in his career...

[qcgamecock]

While speaking to a buddy of mine and comparing Lebron James to NBA stars and the one thing that stuck out was this question.

Name one stat that Lebron has led the NBA in..... LeBron has never led the league in any stat as far as I could find unless it was a negative stat. Can a man who has never been the best at scoring, assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, %...nothing be in the conversation of top 5 or best ever even though he has been top 3 in many of those?

[b381l]

Why does he have to be #1 at anything to be the best. Joe Montana didn't have to lead the NFL in passing yards to be the best QB. For LJ to be in the top 5 in most of those, that makes him the best now.....who else ranks that high in all those categories. And even if he was #1 in each one, he doesn't have the rings to back it up.....yet.

Of course the greatest money player of all time is Big Shot Bob (Robert Hory). He made more clutch shots to win championship games than anybody.

[I Bleed Garnet]

Originally Posted by qcgamecock

While speaking to a buddy of mine and comparing Lebron James to NBA stars and the one thing that stuck out was this question.

Name one stat that Lebron has led the NBA in..... LeBron has never led the league in any stat as far as I could find unless it was a negative stat. Can a man who has never been the best at scoring, assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, %...nothing be in the conversation of top 5 or best ever even though he has been top 3 in many of those?

You mean in his career?

In 07-08 he won the scoring title.

Also do you like to put Tim Duncan in the top 10-15 players of all time? Because he in fact has never lead the league in any per game stat.

[cockypanther]

Originally Posted by qcgamecock

While speaking to a buddy of mine and comparing Lebron James to NBA stars and the one thing that stuck out was this question.

Name one stat that Lebron has led the NBA in..... LeBron has never led the league in any stat as far as I could find unless it was a negative stat. Can a man who has never been the best at scoring, assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, %...nothing be in the conversation of top 5 or best ever even though he has been top 3 in many of those?

Even a blind man can see how absolutely dominating and unbelievably good Lebron James is. He will go down as one of the top 3 players in the history of the NBA. Lebron averages 27 pts, 7 rebounds, just shy of 7 assists, just shy of 2 steals, and just shy of 1 block per game. He nearly averages a triple double for his career. He is the most physically dominating player to ever play the game. To be able to do all he does physically is incredible.

[damron]

Originally Posted by cockypanther

Even a blind man can see how absolutely dominating and unbelievably good Lebron James is. He will go down as one of the top 3 players in the history of the NBA. Lebron averages 27 pts, 7 rebounds, just shy of 7 assists, just shy of 2 steals, and just shy of 1 block per game. He nearly averages a triple double for his career. He is the most physically dominating player to ever play the game. To be able to do all he does physically is incredible.

um, not even close...he MAY be the most physically dominating TODAY...
just off top off my head, Wilt Chamberlain - who by the way AVERAGED a double-double for his CAREER, Lew Alcindor / Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, & Julius Erving would all be considered more physically dominating...and they played when the NBA was a lot more competitive than it is today...RMO III

[Next Year]

[I Bleed Garnet]

Originally Posted by damron

um, not even close...he MAY be the most physically dominating TODAY...
just off top off my head, Wilt Chamberlain - who by the way AVERAGED a double-double for his CAREER, Lew Alcindor / Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, & Julius Erving would all be considered more physically dominating...and they played when the NBA was a lot more competitive than it is today...RMO III

Eh Russell and Chamberlain's time the NBA wasn't a lot more competitive.
If Lebron went back then he'd destroy that competition. (50s-60s)

But yea send him to the mid 70s all the way to early 90s the play was much more physical and Lebron would not get the calls he gets today.

[markymark550]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Eh Russell and Chamberlain's time the NBA wasn't a lot more competitive.
If Lebron went back then he'd destroy that competition. (50s-60s)

But yea send him to the mid 70s all the way to early 90s the play was much more physical and Lebron would not get the calls he gets today.

He may not the calls he gets today, but he still would have been a star in those decades too.

It's always hard to judge how a player would have fared in other eras. I do think there are players that transcend their era and could have played (and starred) at any time in the league's history. Lebron James is one of those players.

Where he will stands overall is still to be determined. I believe that he is the most physically gifted playing right now (and might be the most physically gifted to ever play - up to this point in time). For the truly great players, athleticism and physical tools don't shape legacies. They're all judged on their championships. Due to the way he joined the Heat, he's always going to be judged unfairly on that aspect of his career. If last year is the only ring he wins, it will be "yeah, he's a great player and all, but he only won one championship". If the Heat win multiple championships it's going to be "he's great, but he couldn't win in Cleveland so he went to Miami to team up with his star friends so he could win some rings". I don't think either of those is 100% fair, but that will be the perception that he will have to fight.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by markymark550

He may not the calls he gets today, but he still would have been a star in those decades too.

It's always hard to judge how a player would have fared in other eras. I do think there are players that transcend their era and could have played (and starred) at any time in the league's history. Lebron James is one of those players.

Where he will stands overall is still to be determined. I believe that he is the most physically gifted playing right now (and might be the most physically gifted to ever play - up to this point in time). For the truly great players, athleticism and physical tools don't shape legacies. They're all judged on their championships. Due to the way he joined the Heat, he's always going to be judged unfairly on that aspect of his career. If last year is the only ring he wins, it will be "yeah, he's a great player and all, but he only won one championship". If the Heat win multiple championships it's going to be "he's great, but he couldn't win in Cleveland so he went to Miami to team up with his star friends so he could win some rings". I don't think either of those is 100% fair, but that will be the perception that he will have to fight.

A real good chance he goes back to Cleveland to win a few after he is done in Miami..

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by damron

um, not even close...he MAY be the most physically dominating TODAY...
just off top off my head, Wilt Chamberlain - who by the way AVERAGED a double-double for his CAREER, Lew Alcindor / Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, & Julius Erving would all be considered more physically dominating...and they played when the NBA was a lot more competitive than it is today...RMO III

That is funny, what was the average size of an NBA player in when Chamberlain and Russell, played a 6,9" 250lb guy who can dribble, jump out of the gym and shoot would have been in trouble back then??? Jabbar, Erving and Jordan are the definition of a finesse players, they do not beat you with strength but with quickness, fakes, intelligence, athleticism and finesse. Think about three of the most famous shots in history, Jordan changing hands in mid-air for a layup against
Magic, Dr. J with the best reverse layup ever, and of course the Sky hook.

[qcgamecock]

I bleed Garnet, glad you pointed that out, it was driving me crazy looking at the stats provided to me. I told them twice they were not accurate that Lebron led the league in scoring one year but never followed it up and had forgotten. LeBron is the first player I would even think about comparing to MJ, though they are very different players they are both great basketball players, have a huge will to win, make players around them better and ignore the stat sheet unless they are competing...

To all, I just thought it odd even that we know it not to be a fact for a player to never have led the league or be the best scorer, rebounder or passer to be in the conversation with MJ whom I think is the greatest in my time.
Tim Duncan actually led the league in rebounds one year, just not average per game, but I would never talk about Duncan as one of the greatest to ever play the game...Jordan, Bird, Magic, Lebron, Shaq (hate writing that since he was not a great basketball player but a very large athlete who dominated the paint)....

[NCgamecock1981]

He's led the league in MVP votes 3 times. So that's something...

[cockyjordan3]

Originally Posted by NCgamecock1981

He's led the league in MVP votes 3 times. So that's something...

boom

[GamecockSuperFan]

I watched some film of early kobe against michael jordan...wow. Right now lebrons the best player in the league but the all-time talks get old because he will always be behind M.J and kobe in my opinion. As well as behind a lot of others unless he miraculously comes up with 5 more rings in his career.

I will say I think he's the most COMPLETE player the NBA maybe has ever seen. He's got a little bit of everyone in his game. His FG percentage has gone up every season he's been in the league. He improved his post game, can nail 3's, and hits his midrange jumpers. Plays defense. Great shot blocker, gets back on defense, etc. I think the more he continues to improve his post game the better he will get. It's easy to forget at times that he came straight from high school into the NBA. Big transition. Especially in the post where your going up against NBA veterans. Maybe that's why it took him until about last season to really add that ability to his game.

[cockypanther]

Originally Posted by GamecockSuperFan

I watched some film of early kobe against michael jordan...wow. Right now lebrons the best player in the league but the all-time talks get old because he will always be behind M.J and kobe in my opinion. As well as behind a lot of others unless he miraculously comes up with 5 more rings in his career.

I will say I think he's the most COMPLETE player the NBA maybe has ever seen. He's got a little bit of everyone in his game. His FG percentage has gone up every season he's been in the league. He improved his post game, can nail 3's, and hits his midrange jumpers. Plays defense. Great shot blocker, gets back on defense, etc. I think the more he continues to improve his post game the better he will get. It's easy to forget at times that he came straight from high school into the NBA. Big transition. Especially in the post where your going up against NBA veterans. Maybe that's why it took him until about last season to really add that ability to his game.

It is definitely fair to say Lebron is possibly the most complete player ever. For Jordan and Kobe you have to remember who their coach was.. Phil Jackson is arguably the greatest coach of all time.

[b381l]

Originally Posted by cockypanther

It is definitely fair to say Lebron is possibly the most complete player ever. For Jordan and Kobe you have to remember who their coach was.. Phil Jackson is arguably the greatest coach of all time.

For some reason that I can't explain, but I've always hated Phil Jackson. He's always had the best player and the best talent on the floor.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by GamecockSuperFan

I watched some film of early kobe against michael jordan...wow. Right now lebrons the best player in the league but the all-time talks get old because he will always be behind M.J and kobe in my opinion. As well as behind a lot of others unless he miraculously comes up with 5 more rings in his career.

I will say I think he's the most COMPLETE player the NBA maybe has ever seen. He's got a little bit of everyone in his game. His FG percentage has gone up every season he's been in the league. He improved his post game, can nail 3's, and hits his midrange jumpers. Plays defense. Great shot blocker, gets back on defense, etc. I think the more he continues to improve his post game the better he will get. It's easy to forget at times that he came straight from high school into the NBA. Big transition. Especially in the post where your going up against NBA veterans. Maybe that's why it took him until about last season to really add that ability to his game.

So you don't think the most complete player the NBA has ever seen has a chance to win 5 more rings? He is 28, how old was MJ when he won his first? Kobe is a great player but I did not think he should be in the same sentence as MJ early in his career but that opinion changed over time. Watching LeBron beat Durant for his 2nd should be good stuff, if Durant wins he will put himself in the conversation lol love this game!

[uscfreek88]

Originally Posted by qcgamecock

So you don't think the most complete player the NBA has ever seen has a chance to win 5 more rings? He is 28, how old was MJ when he won his first? Kobe is a great player but I did not think he should be in the same sentence as MJ early in his career but that opinion changed over time. Watching LeBron beat Durant for his 2nd should be good stuff, if Durant wins he will put himself in the conversation lol love this game!

why dont more ppl bring this up when talking about lebron and MJ?....all the MJ lovers just seem to skip over that part and im not saying lebron is better than MJ bc first i dont care about basketball to really say for sure b/c i dont follow it that much and I old enough to where i remember MJ but I feel like there is alot i missed

with all this said and the way Lebron is playing right now...at the end of his career they will be side by side toss up with the older generation taking MJ and most of my gen taking Lebron

one thing i will say tho is that the NBA was tougher when MJ played but Lebron hasnt really been beat by any scrubs in the playoffs......i mean those Spurs were really really good and he just came of of ending that mini dynasty detroit had going on and ill still say that Lebron never had anyone worth a damn in Cleveland while MJ had a very strong supporting class......now obv in Miami thats different, but even when the Heat lost to the Mavs you have to remember that Dirk was having one of the best playoffs of anyone ever, and how many ppl in the league's history can defend a guy like Dirk when he is hot

[Spurrier_Superior_One]

Lebron didn't even sniff a championship until he went to Wade's Heat. Let's face it Lebron has a history of giving up or not showing up for playoff games. At the end of the day its about Championships. 6>1.

[robgusc76]

Originally Posted by Spurrier_Superior_One

Lebron didn't even sniff a championship until he went to Wade's Heat. Let's face it Lebron has a history of giving up or not showing up for playoff games. At the end of the day its about Championships. 6>1.

Look at what he had to work with. His supporting cast was garbage. Bottom line.