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Old 12-24-2013, 06:38 PM   #1
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Default Re-Recruiting Players

The old saying goes, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

I believe sometimes, the best thing schools can do, as far as recruiting and personnel changes go, is re-recruit players they already have on their teams.

Yes, you want to bring in the best talent available and players that fit your program or players who will thrive in a system you can run.

A lot of time is spent getting these players into your teams' training, strength, conditioning and practice regimen. Players take time to adjust to the higher level of competition and the speed of the game at the higher level.

So once those players become redshirt sophomores, juniors, and redshirt juniors, seniors and redshirt seniors, they are the personnel getting most of the starts and being trusted in leadership positions and in certain game situations. They have experience and prior coaching to pull from.

Not every team can go out there and recruit top-5 ranked classes and it is hard to forecast some of the positions that will need to suddenly have an influx of players (due to injuries, suspensions, transfers, poor play, etc). When this type of stuff happens, it usually takes place after the season has started but well into the late part of the next years' recruiting cycle - a time of the year that is hard to suddenly go out a grab a few gret players to fill that vulnerable position and build depth.

So sometimes the best recruiting coaches and coordinators can do is to re-recruit players and get them to stay in school for another year.

Of course this can be seen as selfish and it totally is. That is part of the point too. To go into this mode of thinking requires the thinker to put the needs of the school above the risks the individual player is asked to take on.
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Old 12-24-2013, 06:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

Players like Jadeveon Clowney, who are projected in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounds of the NFL draft should leave early (IMHO) and I would certainly tell them to go ahead and give it a good long look.

At the same time, I would be building depth at that position and getting the guys behind that star some much needed PT and practice (as is practical...sometimes the games are too close to swap people out too much)

Now if the player is borderline 3rd round or lower, I am giving them the hard sell to come back for another year.

I would hopefully be honest and say that I want them back more because of what they mean to the team and less because I think they could improve their stock. I would prefer it be mutually beneficial but at the same time I want a team full of outstanding athletes
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

yea if there's one thing this staff does suck at, it's convincing anyone to stay
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by cockybreeyan View Post
yea if there's one thing this staff does suck at, it's convincing anyone to stay
Examples please.

I'm just trying to think about who you would have had stay honestly.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Examples please.

I'm just trying to think about who you would have had stay honestly.
Captain Munnerlyn.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Captain Munnerlyn.
Ace Sanders, Vic Hampton are some others. Vic is thinking of coming back, if his grade isn't high enough though.
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Old 12-25-2013, 12:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by CarolinaGnB521 View Post
Examples please.

I'm just trying to think about who you would have had stay honestly.
ECook comes to my mind immediately
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:14 AM   #8
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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ECook comes to my mind immediately
Cap, Cook, and Geathers all could've used their senior year. I'll agree to that. But it's worked out okay for Cap. As for Cook and Geathers...well, not so much. And I don't mean to be negative towards Geathers, but I'm not so sure that we needed him in 2010.

Our defensive line that year was Matthews-Robertson-Ladi-Taylor, with Melvin as our main rotation guy...
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by CarolinaGnB521 View Post
Cap, Cook, and Geathers all could've used their senior year. I'll agree to that. But it's worked out okay for Cap. As for Cook and Geathers...well, not so much. And I don't mean to be negative towards Geathers, but I'm not so sure that we needed him in 2010.

Our defensive line that year was Matthews-Robertson-Ladi-Taylor, with Melvin as our main rotation guy...
Yea Captain is doing just fine. For those that hoped Ace would've came back just know he would've been suspended for atleast 2 games.
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by CarolinaGnB521 View Post
Examples please.

I'm just trying to think about who you would have had stay honestly.
Ace Sanders for one. If he hadn't have bolted, we would not have lost a game and we would be playing in the BCS. Ace would have been a go to guy in the Georgia game but the Tennessee game especially. The coaches should have gotten in his ear and tried to get him to come back for this past season. But of course when anyone says this, there are those out there who say, "Dabo" for some stupid reason. These certain guys leaving has hurt following seasons for us in the past. Sidney Rice as well, we would have had a better following season had he come back. Ace Sanders would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder and probably on a better team had he came back and we would have not lost to Tennessee either. We need Kelcy back, Vic back and this would help us next year but they will jet as well.
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Ace Sanders for one. If he hadn't have bolted, we would not have lost a game and we would be playing in the BCS. Ace would have been a go to guy in the Georgia game but the Tennessee game especially. The coaches should have gotten in his ear and tried to get him to come back for this past season. But of course when anyone says this, there are those out there who say, "Dabo" for some stupid reason. These certain guys leaving has hurt following seasons for us in the past. Sidney Rice as well, we would have had a better following season had he come back. Ace Sanders would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder and probably on a better team had he came back and we would have not lost to Tennessee either. We need Kelcy back, Vic back and this would help us next year but they will jet as well.

You don't know how hard the coaches try to keep any player. You only know what's in the media.

For all you know they did sit Ace down and try to keep him. But there comes a point and time where a decision has to be made by whoever is considering leaving. They will weigh their options too. Ace obviously felt like he needed to test the NFL water.

It's not like Ace thought "You know, I should come back to Carolina" and then went into the draft. As for Rice...I feel like any fan who thought he should stay is being to selfish. Sidney Rice was a dominant receiver for two years, what more did he have to prove! He wanted to have a shot in the NFL, and he saw his opportunity. It wasn't like he was drafted in the 5th round. He was drafted in the 2nd round, 44th overall.

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When did Ace ever get hurt? No one could even get a good lick on him. He really cost us a chance at a national championship this year by him leaving and our coaches should have at least made an attempt to talk him out of leaving.
And now we're blaming players from previous years as to why we're not in the BCS? You obviously fail to understand how selfish that sounds. Say that to Ace and see what he says.

Selfish Fan: "Ace you cost us a chance at a National Championship!" :(
Ace: "I didn't cost them anything"
Selfish Fan: "You're right, I just wanted you to stay"
Ace: "I appreciate that but I wanted to make some money"
Selfish Fan: "You could've waited until next year
Ace: "Time is money"
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by CarolinaGnB521 View Post

And now we're blaming players from previous years as to why we're not in the BCS? You obviously fail to understand how selfish that sounds. Say that to Ace and see what he says.
To be fair, I think that point is made by some because our depth at virtually all positions in the past has been so thin that we'd be adversely affected by one or two injuries, much less a guy leaving early to go pro.

As we develop/increase our overall depth and talent level, we won't feel the loss of someone leaving early as much. We need to continue stockpiling talent so that when someone leaves we can plug in another guy without that big dropoff in production.

Losing guys like Rice or Ace definitely affected us, if they'd stayed another year those guys on their own could've made the difference in one or two more wins per year. Just think of the effect on our defense last year if DJ and Devin had left after their JR years...it would've been devastating to our defense. They stayed for their Sr year, gained experience, and even though they potentially lost a year of NFL money, that extra year of development got them a bigger paycheck this year.

The players definitely need to look out for their best interests. But some of the guys definitely hurt themselves by leaving early. Clifton Geathers left early to be drafted in the 6th or 7th round, if I remember correctly. If he'd stayed another year and developed he could've possibly moved up several rounds, which adds up to a big chunk of change.

I'm glad Ace is doing well, and I'll pull for Vic if he decides to leave early. I just hope he doesn't fall to a late round. Not only does that mean a smaller signing bonus (which is where the gurarnteed money is), but it makes it tougher to make a roster. A high pick at most positions is going to get playing time, a lower pick is going to have to win a position that essentially doesn't exist, they have to beat out the established guy. With low roster sizes and no guranteed paycheck, that's really limiting yourself.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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"Time is money"
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by Rebel4ever View Post
Ace Sanders for one. If he hadn't have bolted, we would not have lost a game and we would be playing in the BCS. Ace would have been a go to guy in the Georgia game but the Tennessee game especially. The coaches should have gotten in his ear and tried to get him to come back for this past season. But of course when anyone says this, there are those out there who say, "Dabo" for some stupid reason. These certain guys leaving has hurt following seasons for us in the past. Sidney Rice as well, we would have had a better following season had he come back. Ace Sanders would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder and probably on a better team had he came back and we would have not lost to Tennessee either. We need Kelcy back, Vic back and this would help us next year but they will jet as well.
If Ace didn't leave, he would have been suspended for the Georgia game. That's a fact.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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If Ace didn't leave, he would have been suspended for the Georgia game. That's a fact.
Please fill us in on why he would have been suspended.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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yea if there's one thing this staff does suck at, it's convincing anyone to stay
I've said this before, and i'll say it again. Its a recruiting tool. You don't want the reputation of begging players to stay (see: Dabo). Nick Saban is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and he always says something along the lines of, "If you give me three years, i'll give you the NFL."

You have to remember that these recruits, above all else, want to get to the NFL. They are just trying to pick the best "ride" to get them there.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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I've said this before, and i'll say it again. Its a recruiting tool. You don't want the reputation of begging players to stay (see: Dabo). Nick Saban is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and he always says something along the lines of, "If you give me three years, i'll give you the NFL."

You have to remember that these recruits, above all else, want to get to the NFL. They are just trying to pick the best "ride" to get them there.
Exactly. Which is why it's hard to sit here behind a keyboard and get mad at coaches for letting players leave early. Some players (especially highly rated recruits) come here knowing that they are going to play in the NFL one day. It's hard to sit there and get mad at anyone for a kid chasing their dream.

You're talking money here. It's easy to sit here and say "hey you stay here and you have the chance to get drafted even higher, and you could use to time", but when you've got a clear chance at getting drafted THAT year is the negative risk, really worth it? Sure, selfish fans/coaches think it is. Sometimes the player agrees it is. But a player is going to do what he (keyword there: what HE thinks) thinks is best for him.
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by USC843 View Post
I've said this before, and i'll say it again. Its a recruiting tool. You don't want the reputation of begging players to stay (see: Dabo). Nick Saban is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and he always says something along the lines of, "If you give me three years, i'll give you the NFL."

You have to remember that these recruits, above all else, want to get to the NFL. They are just trying to pick the best "ride" to get them there.

The great thing about Alabama is that they can lose NFL talent and replace them with players who are as good or better at their position than many of the other players in college football.

I do not think many other colleges can make the promise that Nick Saban makes without conceding that they will have to take a hit at that same position.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by USC843 View Post
I've said this before, and i'll say it again. Its a recruiting tool. You don't want the reputation of begging players to stay (see: Dabo). Nick Saban is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and he always says something along the lines of, "If you give me three years, i'll give you the NFL."

You have to remember that these recruits, above all else, want to get to the NFL. They are just trying to pick the best "ride" to get them there.
I dunno about this. Dabo doesn't really have that reputation outside of this board. I see and do agree with some of what you are saying, though.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:02 PM   #20
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yea if there's one thing this staff does suck at, it's convincing anyone to stay


I am not saying anyone sucks at convincing players to stay.

My whole point is that sometimes the best recruiting job you can do is recruiting a player to stay another year.

I also say that the player would be asked to take all the risk in coming back versus taking an early exit.
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