The Penn State Thread

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by USCgamecocks

The difference being this is an institution of higher learning that is public state related and not a private for profit business. Thats a huge distinction.

The punishment is not a simple decision, its a easy start by getting rid of all involved but beyond that it gets quite complicated.

Also, if you don't like the private business comparison- then substitute it for anytime a state or city has settled in a lawsuit. With big settlements come some sort of worker layoffs and/or increased taxes to pay for the settlement(s), thus affecting innocent people.

[USCgamecocks]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

So no actual punishment to the athletics dept?

There should be punishment within the athletic department but I believe it should be self sanctioned and possibly state sanctioned (not quite sure on the rules of jurisdiction here) not NCAA sanctioned.

And at least any money earned beyond the budget to run the rest of the dept. should be put into a separate fund earmarked for something associated with abused children.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by USCgamecocks

There should be punishment within the athletic department but I believe it should be self sanctioned and possibly state sanctioned (not quite sure on the rules of jurisdiction here) not NCAA sanctioned.

And at least any money earned beyond the budget to run the rest of the dept. should be put into a separate fund earmarked for something associated with abused children.

Why should the athletics dept get to run at whatever budget they deem necessary?

If that's the case- there will never be any put into the special fund you referenced.

If they get questioned, they could just reference the rising costs of running an athletics dept. Increased coaches salaries, increased travel costs, etc.

[USCgamecocks]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

Why should the athletics dept get to run at whatever budget they deem necessary?

If that's the case- there will never be any put into the special fund you referenced.

If they get questioned, they could just reference the rising costs of running an athletics dept. Increased coaches salaries, increased travel costs, etc.

Well for one as an example I don't believe the swim team should lose scholarships or their training trip, etc. because of this. If they are forced to disclose (once again not sure legally if its possible) the athletic budget than it will be tough to hide much. Another possibility is freezing the budget all the together (which probably already happened last season with the PA funding cuts).

It seems you're assuming all the people in the athletic department are bad and won't do what is right.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by USCgamecocks

Well for one as an example I don't believe the swim team should lose scholarships or their training trip, etc. because of this. If they are forced to disclose (once again not sure legally if its possible) the athletic budget than it will be tough to hide much. Another possibility is freezing the budget all the together (which probably already happened last season with the PA funding cuts).

It seems you're assuming all the people in the athletic department are bad and won't do what is right.

I'm saying people will do anything they can to justify not having to pay themselves.

[thekob]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

You don't think students and student-athletes will suffer from the school paying upwards of $100 million in settlements?

This idea that no punishment should be levied that will affect current students and student-athletes is absurd...and impossible.

Its inevitable- unless you're a proponent of no further punishment whatsoever.

Civil suits aren't punishments.

[thekob]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

It forces the university, its student body, and community to re-evaluate what is most important in life...and its not football.

Why is that the job of the NCAA?

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by thekob

Civil suits aren't punishments.

Then why do judges award "punitive damages" in civil suits?

And even if you're right (which you're not)...what should the punishment be for a university, or at least an athletics department, that throughout was guilty?

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by thekob

Why is that the job of the NCAA?

If not the NCAA- then who?

I dislike the NCAA as much as the next person, but I'm just trying to figure out what entity levies the punishment that will get the university and community to re-evaluate their priorities?

[thekob]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

Then why do judges award "punitive damages" in civil suits?

And even if you're right (which you're not)...what should the punishment be for a university, or at least an athletics department, that throughout was guilty?

So you think the whole university and athletics department was guilty? I'm starting to understand the imaginary dream world you're coming from.

[thekob]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

If not the NCAA- then who?

I dislike the NCAA as much as the next person, but I'm just trying to figure out what entity levies the punishment that will get the university and community to re-evaluate their priorities?

Why are you so insistent in punishing the university and community? What crimes did they commit? If someone who works at your company does something horrible on the company premises and a higher up covers for them, does that somehow make you responsible?

The stain of this scandal will last for years and years and PSU will be negatively affected by it. The individuals responsible will be punished. I don't understand your desire to punish anyone beyond that.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by thekob

So you think the whole university and athletics department was guilty? I'm starting to understand the imaginary dream world you're coming from.

I said people throughout. Learn to read.

Is the president, athletics director, and coach not considered "people throughout"?

I suppose you believe since each of those will pay in their own separate way that everything is peachy-keen, and the culture that permitted such a coverup, should go unaddressed?

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by thekob

Why are you so insistent in punishing the university and community? What crimes did they commit? If someone who works at your company does something horrible on the company premises and a higher up covers for them, does that somehow make you responsible?

The stain of this scandal will last for years and years and PSU will be negatively affected by it. The individuals responsible will be punished. I don't understand your desire to punish anyone beyond that.

If my company engages in a cover-up of heinous crimes, yes- innocent people will pay. The company as a whole will suffer from the consequences. That's the real world- why should Penn State be immune to that reality?

Don't blame those that levy the punishment- blame those that caused it and allowed it to take place.

[thekob]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

I said people throughout. Learn to read.

Is the president, athletics director, and coach not considered "people throughout"?

I suppose you believe since each of those will pay in their own separate way that everything is peachy-keen, and the culture that permitted such a coverup, should go unaddressed?

I believe that those responsible will pay.

So you, a fan of SEC football, think that the attitude that football is king needs to be punished out of people?

So now the NCAA is trying to show people that it's just a game and not that important. Glad you're not the head of the NCAA...

[MACXIMVS]

Just think of what really happened here .
Also a D.A dissappeared when he got wind of it .
They should be shut down now , hang the bastards who covered it up , and the Jo pa legacy Iz bullshit , he wanted a package deal

It's all gangster

[thekob]

Regarding lack of institutional control, all I can find talks about how it's an additional charge. So basically there's an NCAA violation. The question is whether or not there were controls, policies or procedures in place to prevent that violation. If there were and they were not followed that is "lack of institutional control". The way I see it, this, even though terrible and despicable, is not an NCAA violation. Therefore there can be no lack of institutional control charge via the NCAA.

There wasn't a lot out there, but this is where I'm getting this from:
http://compliance.pac-12.org/thetools/instctl.pdf

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by thekob

I believe that those responsible will pay.

So you, a fan of SEC football, think that the attitude that football is king needs to be punished out of people?

So now the NCAA is trying to show people that it's just a game and not that important. Glad you're not the head of the NCAA...

I believe that when a culture that prohibits outside scrutiny, that discourages transparency, that avoids accountability at all costs, that such a culture should be addressed, because it is that atmosphere that allows for monsters to exist and prey on others.

And no- not every university is like this. I feel that those communities that exist like this very likely have other incidents that go unreported or covered-up, and I just pray to God that they are not the type of this horrible in nature.

If you're ok with these cult-like atmospheres existing, then that is your opinion and you're entitled to it...I just find it frightening.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by MACXIMVS

Just think of what really happened here .
Also a D.A dissappeared when he got wind of it .
They should be shut down now , hang the bastards who covered it up , and the Jo pa legacy Iz bullshit , he wanted a package deal

It's all gangster

Yep- and when a mother of one of the victims tried to go to the police about what her child told her back in 2002, the police chose not to investigate.

The entire community suffered (or maybe suffers) from this cult-like mentality.

[USCgamecocks]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

Yep- and when a mother of one of the victims tried to go to the police about what her child told her back in 2002, the police chose not to investigate.

The entire community suffered (or maybe suffers) from this cult-like mentality.

Have you been to State College or know many alum? I feel that while football is extremely important there it isn't quite this "cult-like" football at any cost atmosphere thats portrayed at large. When it comes to things of this nature I know no people that are even remotely associated with the university that would being to think to cover it up.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by USCgamecocks

Have you been to State College or know many alum? I feel that while football is extremely important there it isn't quite this "cult-like" football at any cost atmosphere thats portrayed at large. When it comes to things of this nature I know no people that are even remotely associated with the university that would being to think to cover it up.

My father-in-law graduated from PSU