Manti Te'o or Johnny Manziel For Heisman?

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by LBC

I'm curious as to how you believe Johnny didn't help beat Bama? He threw for 253 and two touchdowns and rushed for 82 more. Every pass caught and run called he had a direct effect on. He put up more yards and points than almost every other TEAM did against the same Bama team. The fact that he didn't need to score on the last play of the game is because he put up 335 by himself during the ENTIRE game.

He also happens to lead the SEC in rushing and is second only to Tyler Bray by less than 200 yards in passing...not the WAC or the ACC but the SEC.

Through 11 games he leads the nation in total yards...with over 4,160 of them. That is over 570 more yards than Newton had during his SEC record setting year...only it took Cam 12 games to do it. He is averaging some where around 378 yards a game on his own. I think at this point he is only a about 200 yards away from passing RGIII and his record setting year from 2011. Newton, Tebow, RGIII...all three seniors and all three Heisman winners...this is the company he is keeping and he is a FRESHMAN...in the SEC plaing against THE toughest defenses on the planet week after week after week.

Did I say he didn't have a great year? No. I said that everyone wants to give him the Heisman because of one game, which he didn't do anything for over half the game. You can say he had all those yards, but half of those yards came because Bama's O kept turning the ball over, giving momentum to the A&M team while putting their D on the field too much, making them tired. If Bama doesn't turn it over, like they did, they win by 2 TDs.

The way you all want it, is that the QB with the best stats in a big conference gets the Heisman. The most outstanding player week in and week out, this year, was Teo. Nobody had Manziel anywhere near the top of the list, until he won one game against Bama. Before that, you didn't hear about him. I am sorry, one quality win with big stats against lower teams, doesn't make you the Heisman winner.

[Gamecock_girl_west]

Teo.

[USCBatgirl21]

I see Teo getting it solely b/c he plays at ND, which is sad b/c as others mentioned, he isn't even the best defensive player in the Nation.

Johnny's Freshman status will hold him back with alot of voters b/c they'll be of the mind "he has 3 more years to win it", even though TAMU doesn't have the record they do without him IMO.

[I Bleed Garnet]

Tebow won the Heisman as a Sophomore, RG3 and Cam were Juniors

[Luke Skycocker]

Manziel and it is not close

[HUGEGARNETCOCK]

Originally Posted by Mick Chicken

He had more yards than Newton and Tebow in their Heisman years. If he doesn't win it then something is for sure wrong with the process

You are right something is and has been wrong with it! Cam and Tebow shouldn't have won either! That said he is way more exciting than those 2 guys and would get my vote if i could vote if Clowney were already gone that is!

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Tebow won the Heisman as a Sophomore, RG3 and Cam were Juniors

They were red-shirt juniors, so not really the same. Also all those calling Manziel a freshman is bogus, he is a red-shirt Freshman, so it would be more similar to when Tebow won it as a Sophomore. I don't think grade should matter, at all, but annoys me the way we reclassified and mislead with the way they call kids a Freshman who may have been in college 3 semesters already, like Manziel did.

[I Bleed Garnet]

Lali: just correcting someone who called them Seniors

Originally Posted by HUGEGARNETCOCK

You are right something is and has been wrong with it! Cam and Tebow shouldn't have won either! That said he is way more exciting than those 2 guys and would get my vote if i could vote if Clowney were already gone that is!

And woah woah woah.
You can argue McFadden I guess the year Tebow won it.
But cam shouldn't have won it? Why because he got "paid?"

[Mick Chicken]

Originally Posted by HUGEGARNETCOCK

You are right something is and has been wrong with it! Cam and Tebow shouldn't have won either! That said he is way more exciting than those 2 guys and would get my vote if i could vote if Clowney were already gone that is!

How's that?

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Lali: just correcting someone who called them Seniors

My point is that a red-shirt junior is a senior. I hate Manziel and these guys being called the incorrect year. There is a huge difference in a kid showing up in August as a Freshman and dominating like Clowney did last year verse a guy like Manziel who has been in learning the system for a year and a half and getting used to the speed of the game. It doesn't mean that Manziel's year is not amazing, but doesn't give the accurate perspective on his year and enough credit to guys like Clowney who just step in, basically, from day one and play.

[Rebel4ever]

Teo might get it BECAUSE he plays defense and would the first TRUE defensive player to win. I know Woodson won it but he played many snaps on offense (I know not majority) and not purely defense in that sense (Peyton should have won it, IMO), that's just my opinion, disagree if you want and I know a lot will but that's why I say he'd be the first ALL defensive player to win it and voters might take that into condsideration along with them being in the BCS title game. I just don't see a freshman winning it, if a freshman was going to win it, it should have been Adrian Peterson. Peterson didn't win it because he was a freshman and there was still a bias towards freshman not winning it. If Peterson played today as a freshman with the season he had back then, he would win it.

[Rebel4ever]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

My point is that a red-shirt junior is a senior. I hate Manziel and these guys being called the incorrect year. There is a huge difference in a kid showing up in August as a Freshman and dominating like Clowney did last year verse a guy like Manziel who has been in learning the system for a year and a half and getting used to the speed of the game. It doesn't mean that Manziel's year is not amazing, but doesn't give the accurate perspective on his year and enough credit to guys like Clowney who just step in, basically, from day one and play.

I agree with this 100%.

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by Rebel4ever

Teo might get it BECAUSE he plays defense and would the first TRUE defensive player to win. I know Woodson won it but he played many snaps on offense (I know not majority) and not purely defense in that sense (Peyton should have won it, IMO), that's just my opinion, disagree if you want and I know a lot will but that's why I say he'd be the first ALL defensive player to win it and voters might take that into condsideration along with them being in the BCS title game. I just don't see a freshman winning it, if a freshman was going to win it, it should have been Adrian Peterson. Peterson didn't win it because he was a freshman and there was still a bias towards freshman not winning it. If Peterson played today as a freshman with the season he had back then, he would win it.

Pretty much agree with everything you say. Especially the bit about Peyton and Peterson deserving to win.

[I Bleed Garnet]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

My point is that a red-shirt junior is a senior. I hate Manziel and these guys being called the incorrect year. There is a huge difference in a kid showing up in August as a Freshman and dominating like Clowney did last year verse a guy like Manziel who has been in learning the system for a year and a half and getting used to the speed of the game. It doesn't mean that Manziel's year is not amazing, but doesn't give the accurate perspective on his year and enough credit to guys like Clowney who just step in, basically, from day one and play.

I agree with what you say, just don't know of you're trying to correct me.
Maybe should have left cam and RG out of it.

On another note I'm happy to see Mike Leach's offense in the conference

[Rh Gamecock]

Originally Posted by bigdawg77

Manti isn't even the best defensive player in the nation. Jarvis, Clowney and Millner are all better.

^

[brat]

I think denoting a player as either a redshirt or true Freshman is important because it helps the fan understand that there is some different in their level of play as one was in HS last year playing and the other had a year to mature, learn the system better. I would be less inclined to fault a true freshman making a mental error as I would someone who had a least a year in college to be instructed by the coaches and still makes a careless error in a game.

As they progress to each class, the redshirt indicator also helps the casual fan be able to understand that a future redshirt year could be use, if needed, such as with Lattimore for next year as he has not redshirted before. In his case, it will not really matter as he seems likely to opt for the draft instead of using the redshirt year to return to play for Carolina.

I find the label (R) helpful, not an irritant, but to each their own.

[usc1]

Hope Teo doesn't win it. He's a great player but he's also been overhyped because he plays on the most hyped team in the country so people have somewhat of a distorted perception of him. I also hate ND. Manziel deserves it more than anyone. If he was a junior this wouldn't be a discussion which shows me he should win it.

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Garnet

I agree with what you say, just don't know of you're trying to correct me.
Maybe should have left cam and RG out of it.

On another note I'm happy to see Mike Leach's offense in the conference

Not trying to correct you, more the media and their incorrect classifications. It is just a pet peeve of mine, sorry to come across as attacking you.

[LBC]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

They were red-shirt juniors, so not really the same. Also all those calling Manziel a freshman is bogus, he is a red-shirt Freshman, so it would be more similar to when Tebow won it as a Sophomore. I don't think grade should matter, at all, but annoys me the way we reclassified and mislead with the way they call kids a Freshman who may have been in college 3 semesters already, like Manziel did.

You believe him setting the all time yardage record in SEC history in his very first year of competition is somehow misleading? Or even more bizarre...'bogus'?

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by LBC

You believe him setting the all time yardage record in SEC history in his very first year of competition is somehow misleading? Or even more bizarre...'bogus'?

I believe saying a Freshman did it is misleading. He had spent almost 2 years in college before breaking all the records. There is a huge difference in what someone like Bo Jackson or Herschel Walker did as true freshman, with only a month ever of college practice prior to their season, achieved compared to saying Manziel who had 18 months of preparation did as a "freshman".