Shaw or Thompson

[Dizzy01]

Originally Posted by klempsux

Shaw only looks for 1 receiver. He will complete passes to multiple guys, but he's locked in on that guy as its usually the dump off pass.

I love the comments about Shaw and the "check down" passes when comparing him to Thompson. People do realize Thompson's average yards per pass is only about 2 yards higher than Shaw while his completion percentage is about 17 percentage points less.

[CockpetBagger]

Passing Defense Rankings:

ECU: 105
UAB: 73
Clemson: 81

[klempsux]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Lastly...Connor needs to get rid of it quicker...we all agree with that...but I would rather him hold it longer and make sure it's there than just throw it up. Take a look at his comp percentage...it isunheard of...and I think that is a result from him hanging on to it to make sure it was there first! I don't know about anyone else...but Connor is a QB that I finally don't hold my brEathe every time he lets go of it and that is a good thing!

You can throw it to a spot and not throw it up is the point. Shaw cannot lead a sophisticated passing attack because he refuses to throw until the receiver is wide open. That doesn't not fly against good defenses. It also results in our WR's running lazy routes because they know they aren't likely to get the ball. You were calling for Shaw last year when the passing game was not effective, why do you support him this year when he's not being effective? Throw out all the completion stats and YPA you want (since you dropped QB rating as the best stat once you realized how close Thompson was to Shaw), but anyone watching the games can see the guys regressed.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Dizzy01

I love the comments about Shaw and the "check down" passes when comparing him to Thompson. People do realize Thompson's average yards per pass is only about 2 yards higher than Shaw while his completion percentage is about 17 percentage points less.

Is that directed at me? Thompson spreads the ball around more. Not really sure how anyone actually possessing functioning eyeballs who's watched the games can say otherwise. If his first option is covered he's much more inclined than Connor to look for a 2nd or 3rd option.

How do "Average Yards" and "completion percentage" discredit that? The "check down" wouldn't necessarily increase his Yards per pass and his completion percentage can be interpreted as being lower because he (GASP) actually attempted a throw, regardless of if he completed it or not. So the "check down" criticism is entirely valid.

Connor's completion percentage is skewed because of Missouri game. What else you got?

EDIT: See you quoted someone else. But I referenced "check down" as well.

[snoopcockycock]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

I respect your opinion but the simple fact is Connor has not "regressed from strides in 2011"...he has a very similar TD to Int ratio...he has a higher comp percentage...and he has a higher YPA also. (Not to mention total
Yards but that is a given bc he played more) but the regression you may be referring to is he has been hurt most of the year so he hasn't been as affective running the ball. But again...he sits at 15th in the country in QB rating compared to 24th last year so if anything...his passing has PROgressed.

But I honestly think the problem with people being "team Thompson" is this...I think the expectations of Connor and the expectations coming in to this year has affected how people look at Connor. We didn't win the EAst this year & lost two very important games on the road where Connor didn't play well & a lot of our fans fault him for the loss when it was very clear it was not all his fault. Also...the teams that Dylan has played is nothing to the D's Connor has face and Connor still has better numbers that PROVE he is still the better QB!

Lastly...Connor needs to get rid of it quicker...we all agree with that...but I would rather him hold it longer and make sure it's there than just throw it up. Take a look at his comp percentage...it isunheard of...and I think that is a result from him hanging on to it to make sure it was there first! I don't know about anyone else...but Connor is a QB that I finally don't hold my brEathe every time he lets go of it and that is a good thing!

you can't give logic and facts to people who don't want to take them. posters like kaneisable are hilarious. they ask you for facts, and when you give them facts, then they go back to saying what they saw, or how they feel.
they need to make up their minds. the FACTS, the numbers, the situation all PROVE that connor has progressed this year, and he did it while having to endure a fractured scapula and foot. what is it that these short sighted people aren't seeing? this is such an easy argument, that even slingblade could figure out for himself. here it is guys, no matter what you FEEL, no matter what you THINK you see, or how the offense APPEARS to you, here are the facts:
1. shaw has a much, much better completion percentage, with only a couple of yards difference in ypc.
2. shaw has a much better qb rating.
3. shaw has performed against much, much, much, much stronger competition.
4. shaw has the best career record for any usc qb in our entire history at 15-3.
5. shaw has played injured all season long, and still have better numbers than thompson, against tougher competition.
6. there is a reason thompson hasn't gotten as many snaps as shaw!
7. hof coach, heisman winning qb and a coach who coached a heisman winning qb says that connor shaw is the better qb, and trusts him more to win any of our games as the starter. case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now, you would have to be on some serious drugs, or just absolutely dimwitted to try to argue against all of that.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by snoopcockycock

you can't give logic and facts to people who don't want to take them. posters like kaneisable are hilarious. they ask you for facts, and when you give them facts, then they go back to saying what they saw, or how they feel.
they need to make up their minds. the FACTS, the numbers, the situation all PROVE that connor has progressed this year, and he did it while having to endure a fractured scapula and foot. what is it that these short sighted people aren't seeing? this is such an easy argument, that even slingblade could figure out for himself. here it is guys, no matter what you FEEL, no matter what you THINK you see, or how the offense APPEARS to you, here are the facts:
1. shaw has a much, much better completion percentage, with only a couple of yards difference in ypc.
2. shaw has a much better qb rating.
3. shaw has performed against much, much, much, much stronger competition.
4. shaw has the best career record for any usc qb in our entire history at 15-3.
5. shaw has played injured all season long, and still have better numbers than thompson, against tougher competition.
6. there is a reason thompson hasn't gotten as many snaps as shaw!
7. hof coach, heisman winning qb and a coach who coached a heisman winning qb says that connor shaw is the better qb, and trusts him more to win any of our games as the starter. case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now, you would have to be on some serious drugs, or just absolutely dimwitted to try to argue against all of that.

Wow, attack other posters much? (Hard to argue w/ your 15 exclamation points, though. Great logic there.) I provided a detailed breakdown of my observations as to Shaw's shortcomings and the difference that I observed w/r/t Thompson and his play. I asked for facts and acknowledged that he provided them. I haven't seen anything to dispute anything w/r/t my post regarding Shaw's shortcomings, which I took great pains to make fair and reasoned. The offense w/ Shaw is stagnant and one-dimensional. Everyone who wants to crown Shaw Connor Football resort to personal attacks when you try and explore any nuance whatsoever within your beloved "completion percentage" and "QB Rating". But since I guess I'm a drugged-out dimwit, here goes:

1. shaw has a much, much better completion percentage, with only a couple of yards difference in ypc.

Please at least acknowledge that his completion percentage is skewed from the Missouri game (against a Defense that no one would classify as "great".)

2. shaw has a much better qb rating.

3. shaw has performed against much, much, much, much stronger competition.

Who? Georgia? The 2 toughest opponents we faced were Shaw's worst games. Who does that leave? Vandy? Missouri? Kentucky? Tennessee? Arkansas? Wofford? (Probably not the last 2 since they don't help your case, though, right?)

4. shaw has the best career record for any usc qb in our entire history at 15-3.

This is true and deserves all the credit possible. It is frustrating that those 3 loses were all road games and arguably the biggest ones he played in, but the record stands for itself. (Thompson: 2-0. HE'S GOT A HIGHER WINNING PERCENTAGE would be what I would say here if I was cherry-picking the way you are.)

5. shaw has played injured all season long, and still have better numbers than thompson, against tougher competition.

He HAS better numbers because he's played more. We can't know what Thompson would have done any more than we can know what the Tooth Fairy looks like.

6. there is a reason thompson hasn't gotten as many snaps as shaw!
This isn't really a point so I don't know how to respond to it. I'll just consider this 6A.

7. hof coach, heisman winning qb and a coach who coached a heisman winning qb says that connor shaw is the better qb, and trusts him more to win any of our games as the starter. case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure didn't trust him in the 2nd half of the Florida game, did he? I trust Spurrier and the staff. It doesn't change the fact that the offense is more multifaceted w/ Thompson in the game. And since you have such little respect for me or my knowledge, I'll return in kind: if you can't see that you don't understand the game of football.

[pantera17]

I had a really nice response typed out. Then left to get food for the family. And came to find out cockytalk had refreshed and lost my post.

I really don't see how people can even argue with Kane on this. He is so right about this it's not even funny.

It's always funny because you can clearly tell who are Carolina fans. And who are fans of the sport then Carolina fans. The casual fans don't understand the sport. And it shows. Because of you did there would be no argument.

I love this one
"shaw has played tougher competition"

This is the worst "point" on here. So what? Shaw has only had two really good passing days ever here. And they weren't aganst good Ds.

Just because he's played tougher teams (and not played well, while we're at it) makes him the better option. Lol ok makes perfect sense.

Bottom line is, we're a better team when Dylan is in. And I don't think anyone can argue that. All you need are eyes and you can see that.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Anyone who thinks Connor Shaw Passing Quarterback has progressed this season is either not actually watching the games or is so far gone in Shaw-ism to not see what's abundantly evident. Connor had a great statistical game against Missouri and while he deserves total credit for it, that's skewing his numbers in a BIG way.



What defenses did Connor do so well against? Missouri? He didn't play well at all against Florida or LSU. The only top tier D he excelled against was Georgia. (And please don't cite Tennessee. Their Defense is horrific.) I absolutely fault his play as one of the primary reasons we lost the LSU game. His inability to throw the ball made it incredibly easy for the LSU D-Line to set up shop in our backfield. They knew he wasn't going to throw and rushed accordingly. And his INT cost us the game, period.

Seriously: what fault, (if any), do you find w/ Connor's play? By the way you've slobbered all over him in this forum you'd think he was heading to NY for the Heisman ceremony. I'm not claiming Thompson is a Heisman candidate, but I like seeing Wide Receivers involved in the game.




Where did I suggest he just "throw it up"? I want him to THROW IT. At all. You keep citing "completion percentage", and while it's crucial for a QB to take care of the ball, do you understand that being TOO hesitant can have a negative effect?

Wow! And you think I am biased?!
How are you so quick to talk about "skewed" numbers & down Connors QB play against good D's but then ignore the fact that #1...Mizzou's D is better than any Dylan has faced. So wouldn't you think that IF Dylan was the better QB that he would be able to complete as good or better percentage than Connor?
#2...Connor played well against Ga...yes...what D has Dylan faced that was CLOSE to as good as Georgia's D? The worse D that Connor faced all year was Tenn....but let's ignore the numbers he put up against them! He got rid of it just fine seemed like to me against a bad D...BETTER than what Dylan has...NUMBERS DON'T LIE!!
#3...let me guess...u fault Connor for LSU...but you don't fault that QB'S for the Florida loss even though Dylan played half of the game? Or wait...did he cost us that game too?! BAHAHAHAHA
#4...if u would actually go back & read...you would see clearly where I have said Connor could get rid of it quicker...is that not a fault I have admitted to? And again...I guess against Tennessee the WRs weren't involved?! Who caught the 356 yards of passing by Connor then? Wait...that don't matter bc it was not a good D...but Dylan's do...how?!

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by klempsux

You can throw it to a spot and not throw it up is the point. Shaw cannot lead a sophisticated passing attack because he refuses to throw until the receiver is wide open. That doesn't not fly against good defenses. It also results in our WR's running lazy routes because they know they aren't likely to get the ball. You were calling for Shaw last year when the passing game was not effective, why do you support him this year when he's not being effective? Throw out all the completion stats and YPA you want (since you dropped QB rating as the best stat once you realized how close Thompson was to Shaw), but anyone watching the games can see the guys regressed.

What the?! Shaw can't lead a sophisticated passing attack but Dylan can?! Are u serious?! What would you call what he did against Kentucky last year...or Tennessee his year?! Connor seems to be more effective to me...what is his record vs Garcia's? And if u go back & read...I used QB rating numerous times...that is my favorite one...higher QB rating all though playing against MUCH better D's!!! FACT!!!

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Is that directed at me? Thompson spreads the ball around more. Not really sure how anyone actually possessing functioning eyeballs who's watched the games can say otherwise. If his first option is covered he's much more inclined than Connor to look for a 2nd or 3rd option.

How do "Average Yards" and "completion percentage" discredit that? The "check down" wouldn't necessarily increase his Yards per pass and his completion percentage can be interpreted as being lower because he (GASP) actually attempted a throw, regardless of if he completed it or not. So the "check down" criticism is entirely valid.

Connor's completion percentage is skewed because of Missouri game. What else you got?

EDIT: See you quoted someone else. But I referenced "check down" as well.

Would Dylan's numbers & performances not be skewed bc of the horrid D's he has faced?! Conveniently left that part out huh?!

[ThisMr X]

Shaw's our starter this year, quit crying people.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by snoopcockycock

you can't give logic and facts to people who don't want to take them. posters like kaneisable are hilarious. they ask you for facts, and when you give them facts, then they go back to saying what they saw, or how they feel.
they need to make up their minds. the FACTS, the numbers, the situation all PROVE that connor has progressed this year, and he did it while having to endure a fractured scapula and foot. what is it that these short sighted people aren't seeing? this is such an easy argument, that even slingblade could figure out for himself. here it is guys, no matter what you FEEL, no matter what you THINK you see, or how the offense APPEARS to you, here are the facts:
1. shaw has a much, much better completion percentage, with only a couple of yards difference in ypc.
2. shaw has a much better qb rating.
3. shaw has performed against much, much, much, much stronger competition.
4. shaw has the best career record for any usc qb in our entire history at 15-3.
5. shaw has played injured all season long, and still have better numbers than thompson, against tougher competition.
6. there is a reason thompson hasn't gotten as many snaps as shaw!
7. hof coach, heisman winning qb and a coach who coached a heisman winning qb says that connor shaw is the better qb, and trusts him more to win any of our games as the starter. case closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now, you would have to be on some serious drugs, or just absolutely dimwitted to try to argue against all of that.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

[jonick]

It's good to have this delima, I remember a time when we were in a totlally different position...maybe a good starter but no backup...Personally though I would like to stick with Shaw until he loses his job by being outplayed not by injury...and you don't really know if either will have a job next year...I'm just so glad to have beaten clemron 4 in a row and more looming in the future...love to see a SEC championship...and let's just keep beating Clemron...Go Cocks...

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by pantera17

I had a really nice response typed out. Then left to get food for the family. And came to find out cockytalk had refreshed and lost my post.

I really don't see how people can even argue with Kane on this. He is so right about this it's not even funny.

It's always funny because you can clearly tell who are Carolina fans. And who are fans of the sport then Carolina fans. The casual fans don't understand the sport. And it shows. Because of you did there would be no argument.

I love this one
"shaw has played tougher competition"

This is the worst "point" on here. So what? Shaw has only had two really good passing days ever here. And they weren't aganst good Ds.

Just because he's played tougher teams (and not played well, while we're at it) makes him the better option. Lol ok makes perfect sense.

Bottom line is, we're a better team when Dylan is in. And I don't think anyone can argue that. All you need are eyes and you can see that.

Facts over opinions all day every day! Fact!

if you think Connor has only had 2 good passing days here...you need to watch more Carolina football...but even if you wanted to go on 2 good days...those 2 good days were better than any of Dylan's good days! FACT!!!!

Lastly...just like Snoop said...doesn't it make COMMON SENSE that if we r a better team with Dylan that SOS and co. would see that & start Dylan?!!!!!!!! I guess he just wants to keep the person who makes our team better on the bench huh?!!

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

What the?! Shaw can't lead a sophisticated passing attack but Dylan can?! Are u serious?! What would you call what he did against Kentucky last year...or Tennessee his year?! Connor seems to be more effective to me...what is his record vs Garcia's? And if u go back & read...I used QB rating numerous times...that is my favorite one...higher QB rating all though playing against MUCH better D's!!! FACT!!!

Garcia? Jesus, man. You're all over the map here.

"Higher QB rating all though playing against MUCH better D's!!!" (sic, ad infinity).

[gotrice?]

I think everyone has forgotten option 3. Both. We have Spurrier and 2 QBs not only capable of starting but good at doing different things. Everyone remembers the success he had at UF and now he has 2 different QBs that can make defensive game planning infinitely more difficult. Don't be shocked if we have a rotation that only gets broken if someone has a very hot hand.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Facts over opinions all day every day! Fact!

if you think Connor has only had 2 good passing days here...you need to watch more Carolina football...but even if you wanted to go on 2 good days...those 2 good days were better than any of Dylan's good days! FACT!!!!

Lastly...just like Snoop said...doesn't it make COMMON SENSE that if we r a better team with Dylan that SOS and co. would see that & start Dylan?!!!!!!!! I guess he just wants to keep the person who makes our team better on the bench huh?!!

Yes, coaches are infallible and have never made a single mistake. They are coaches and therefore completely above any criticism whatsoever.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Garcia? Jesus, man. You're all over the map here.

"Higher QB rating all though playing against MUCH better D's!!!" (sic, ad infinity).

Sorry u r too slow to follow along...you or someone mentioned that I was all about playing Shaw last year...just reiterating why I was (Shaw turned out better)

Just stating facts...if you can't take...sorry for ya

[pantera17]

I'm really concerned for gripitandripit. He honestly thinks we are even an average passing team with Shaw at quarterback. Shaw is one of the most frustrating quarterbacks I've ever watched. He just refuses to throw it.

[pantera17]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Sorry u r too slow to follow along...you or someone mentioned that I was all about playing Shaw last year...just reiterating why I was (Shaw turned out better)

Just stating facts...if you can't take...sorry for ya

You can not honestly be serious. If you honestly think this then no one here can ever take what you say seriously. Until Connor throws for 3000 yards in a year I won't have him above Garcia.