Shaw or Thompson

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Yes, coaches are infallible and have never made a single mistake. They are coaches and therefore completely above any criticism whatsoever.

Sorry buddy...nobody's perfect...but I would put anything I got that they know more about it than you

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Wow! And you think I am biased?!
How are you so quick to talk about "skewed" numbers & down Connors QB play against good D's but then ignore the fact that #1...Mizzou's D is better than any Dylan has faced. So wouldn't you think that IF Dylan was the better QB that he would be able to complete as good or better percentage than Connor?
#2...Connor played well against Ga...yes...what D has Dylan faced that was CLOSE to as good as Georgia's D? The worse D that Connor faced all year was Tenn....but let's ignore the numbers he put up against them! He got rid of it just fine seemed like to me against a bad D...BETTER than what Dylan has...NUMBERS DON'T LIE!!
#3...let me guess...u fault Connor for LSU...but you don't fault that QB'S for the Florida loss even though Dylan played half of the game? Or wait...did he cost us that game too?! BAHAHAHAHA
#4...if u would actually go back & read...you would see clearly where I have said Connor could get rid of it quicker...is that not a fault I have admitted to? And again...I guess against Tennessee the WRs weren't involved?! Who caught the 356 yards of passing by Connor then? Wait...that don't matter bc it was not a good D...but Dylan's do...how?!

I do think you're biased. I also clearly stated my bias. It's kind of why we're having this debate.

You're engaged in some serious circular logic here; "Connor's NUMBERS DON'T LIE!" but "DYLAN'S NUMBERS ONLY BECAUSE OF BAD D". Those are 2 contradictory statements. Either Numbers are numbers or they're not. Shaw has better numbers. He's played exponentially more games. It's hard to argue against the numbers, because Thompson has a smaller sample size to draw from. But if Thompson is getting knocked because of the strength of the defenses he's faced, than Shaw does as well. See how that works?


To posit that the offense w/ Shaw at the helm THIS SEASON is effective, multifaceted, and keeps defenses honest is to ignore staggering evidence of Shaw struggling.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Sorry buddy...nobody's perfect...but I would put anything I got that they know more about it than you

Where did I say that I knew more than the coaches? I'm going to go through your posts, though, and look for any instance where you criticized a coaching move, playcall, or player. Because by your reasoning here, "a coach is making a decision. coaches know more about football. Therefore that decision is the right one."

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by pantera17

I'm really concerned for gripitandripit. He honestly thinks we are even an average passing team with Shaw at quarterback. Shaw is one of the most frustrating quarterbacks I've ever watched. He just refuses to throw it.

It's maddening. And it effects the players as well.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by pantera17

You can not honestly be serious. If you honestly think this then no one here can ever take what you say seriously. Until Connor throws for 3000 yards in a year I won't have him above Garcia.

Yeah...that makes a lot of sense...Garcia is better bc he threw for more yards than Connor in a year...but you think Dylan is better why? Any numbers to back that up or just a biased eye test?

[COCKYTALKIN]

I can't understand how anybody could argue against Dylan Thompson. He hasn't played enough games for his statistics to be relevant in this argument. He hasn't had an opportunity to play top tier defense so nobody knows what would happen. However, we know Shaw can't run against an LSU or Florida caliber defense and nobody (I hope) is arguing which QB is the better passer.

They are both good. We have RB's that can handle the ground game. Play the guy that can chuck it around a little better.

[pantera17]

I have a couple of questions for gripitandripit. These will tell is a lot.

1. Connor completed six (6) passes aganst UGA two of which were in the defenders hands and our guys snatched them away. Do you really honestly think he played well aganst UGA?

2. We're you impressed with his play aganst mizzou? I sure wasn't. He completed two passes more than ten yards that game. The rest were short. Or check downs. You act like he torched both of those teams.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Yeah...that makes a lot of sense...Garcia is better bc he threw for more yards than Connor in a year...but you think Dylan is better why? Any numbers to back that up or just a biased eye test?

So by your estimation the only thing Shaw needs to improve is "getting rid of the ball quicker"? And why is that? Are there other areas of his game that he could improve on, and if so, what are they? To attempt to be constructive here, I'll get specific:

1. Get rid of the ball quicker/more decisive w/ the passes
2. Cycle through multiple receivers prior to tucking and running
3. Trust the WRs/TEs to get open even if they are not presently open at the time of the throw
4. Run as absolute last resort (unless called QB run play)
5. Slide feet first to avoid potential injury
6. Improve arm strength and pass velocity, float less passes

[pantera17]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Yeah...that makes a lot of sense...Garcia is better bc he threw for more yards than Connor in a year...but you think Dylan is better why? Any numbers to back that up or just a biased eye test?

Haha wow. You do realize the only way you can truly judge someones play is to see it for yourself, right? Because numbers can become incredibly skewed. And in Connors case have.

It's like saying Montana is a better quarterback then Marino because he won more games. But if you ever actually watched the two QBs then anyone could tell that Marino is better.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

I do think you're biased. I also clearly stated my bias. It's kind of why we're having this debate.

You're engaged in some serious circular logic here; "Connor's NUMBERS DON'T LIE!" but "DYLAN'S NUMBERS ONLY BECAUSE OF BAD D". Those are 2 contradictory statements. Either Numbers are numbers or they're not. Shaw has better numbers. He's played exponentially more games. It's hard to argue against the numbers, because Thompson has a smaller sample size to draw from. But if Thompson is getting knocked because of the strength of the defenses he's faced, than Shaw does as well. See how that works?


To posit that the offense w/ Shaw at the helm THIS SEASON is effective, multifaceted, and keeps defenses honest is to ignore staggering evidence of Shaw struggling.

Whichever u want them to be buddy...both are numbers...and Connors is better! Sorry you can't see that but it's a FACT! I know exactly how it works...u r the one that is missing it...Connor has faced tougher D's overall...but his QB rating is still better! It's something called averages...no matter how the "sample size" is...Connors numbers are still better.

Again...I have stated facts that backup Connor is better overall...even facing better D's...until you can find anything that proves that wrong...you have no argument

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by pantera17

I have a couple of questions for gripitandripit. These will tell is a lot.

1. Connor completed six (6) passes aganst UGA two of which were in the defenders hands and our guys snatched them away. Do you really honestly think he played well aganst UGA?

2. We're you impressed with his play aganst mizzou? I sure wasn't. He completed two passes more than ten yards that game. The rest were short. Or check downs. You act like he torched both of those teams.

Excellent points. I give Shaw credit for utilizing the check downs in Mizzou game (one of the only instances of him doing it this season) but his numbers are bloated by those short passes.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Whichever u want them to be buddy...both are numbers...and Connors is better! Sorry you can't see that but it's a FACT! I know exactly how it works...u r the one that is missing it...Connor has faced tougher D's overall...but his QB rating is still better! It's something called averages...no matter how the "sample size" is...Connors numbers are still better.

Again...I have stated facts that backup Connor is better overall...even facing better D's...until you can find anything that proves that wrong...you have no argument

LOL. WHAT DEFENSES? Georgia (all 6 passes)? What are the better defenses. PLEASE tell me. And PLEASE tell me how Connor is a better physical passer w/o saying "NUMBERS DEFENSES BRO!"

[pantera17]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Whichever u want them to be buddy...both are numbers...and Connors is better! Sorry you can't see that but it's a FACT! I know exactly how it works...u r the one that is missing it...Connor has faced tougher D's overall...but his QB rating is still better! It's something called averages...no matter how the "sample size" is...Connors numbers are still better.

Again...I have stated facts that backup Connor is better overall...even facing better D's...until you can find anything that proves that wrong...you have no argument

Wtf. Your logic.. Is just bad.

You keep saying Connor has faced tougher Ds. Yes we all know this. But it doesn't matter because he's ne'er done anything aganst these "tougher" Ds. Shaw's only good passing games are aganst bad Ds. Same as DT. You have no point there. And that seems to be your main point. I mean heck he played wofford the week before Clemson and looked horrible. No doubt in my mind DT would have thrown 300 aganst them.

[HeadCockFan]

Passer rating is a crap stat IMO. Completion percentage should factor less if you have a low YPC. But that's too much fancy math for the football Gods.

[Dizzy01]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Is that directed at me? Thompson spreads the ball around more. Not really sure how anyone actually possessing functioning eyeballs who's watched the games can say otherwise. If his first option is covered he's much more inclined than Connor to look for a 2nd or 3rd option.

How do "Average Yards" and "completion percentage" discredit that? The "check down" wouldn't necessarily increase his Yards per pass and his completion percentage can be interpreted as being lower because he (GASP) actually attempted a throw, regardless of if he completed it or not. So the "check down" criticism is entirely valid.

Connor's completion percentage is skewed because of Missouri game. What else you got?

EDIT: See you quoted someone else. But I referenced "check down" as well.

If you remove the Mizzou game Shaw's completion percentage drops all the way down to 64% which the last time I checked is still significantly higher than 50% for Thompson.

As for spreading the ball around you can look at the box scores for a comparison of how many different guys catch the ball. I'm not talking about hitting 3 different guys 6 times a piece but rather 6 or more guys making catches.

The YPC makes a difference when you're trying to compare the guys and claiming one guy only throws short easy passes. If this was the case then his yards per completion average should be significantly lower.

Of course I think the lesson here is that when facts and stats don't support your point just discredit them and keep on spinning.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by pantera17

I have a couple of questions for gripitandripit. These will tell is a lot.

1. Connor completed six (6) passes aganst UGA two of which were in the defenders hands and our guys snatched them away. Do you really honestly think he played well aganst UGA?

2. We're you impressed with his play aganst mizzou? I sure wasn't. He completed two passes more than ten yards that game. The rest were short. Or check downs. You act like he torched both of those teams.

1. Honestly...OF COURSE he played well against Georgia! I would love to hear someone try to explain to me how he didn't play well! We were up 21-0 in the first qtr...why keep throwing it?! Just bc he did what SOS wanted him to do does that mean he had a bad game?! Now do I think he had a BIG game...no...he didn't throw it enough to like he did against Tenn...but a good game...60% passing 2 TDs & 0 ints...who wouldn't call that a good game?!

2. No...wasn't impressed bc he is a good and smart QB. I expect that from him! And you want to put a wager on it that he threw 2 passes more than 10 yards?! That alone just shows how much you watch or how much you comprehend when you do watch! Each of his TDs were over 10 yard throws...the fade to Ace was over 20 that fell perfectly in his hands!

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

So by your estimation the only thing Shaw needs to improve is "getting rid of the ball quicker"? And why is that? Are there other areas of his game that he could improve on, and if so, what are they? To attempt to be constructive here, I'll get specific:

1. Get rid of the ball quicker/more decisive w/ the passes
2. Cycle through multiple receivers prior to tucking and running
3. Trust the WRs/TEs to get open even if they are not presently open at the time of the throw
4. Run as absolute last resort (unless called QB run play)
5. Slide feet first to avoid potential injury
6. Improve arm strength and pass velocity, float less passes

Did I say that was the only thing? You said I don't find any faults...just giving an example where I already had before.

Not gonna waste my time to quote on these. Can Connor improve...of course! Is he the best & most proven QB we have right now! Of course! If he wasn't...why would he be starting?!

[pantera17]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

1. Honestly...OF COURSE he played well against Georgia! I would love to hear someone try to explain to me how he didn't play well! We were up 21-0 in the first qtr...why keep throwing it?! Just bc he did what SOS wanted him to do does that mean he had a bad game?! Now do I think he had a BIG game...no...he didn't throw it enough to like he did against Tenn...but a good game...60% passing 2 TDs & 0 ints...who wouldn't call that a good game?!

2. No...wasn't impressed bc he is a good and smart QB. I expect that from him! And you want to put a wager on it that he threw 2 passes more than 10 yards?! That alone just shows how much you watch or how much you comprehend when you do watch! Each of his TDs were over 10 yard throws...the fade to Ace was over 20 that fell perfectly in his hands!

You completely ignored the fact that Connor threw two shitty passes that were picked off but our guys went and snatched the ball.

And um what? You just agreed with me... His two TDs were what I was talking about... Lol

[pantera17]

Hey grip, here's one thing we can agree on. I hope Mitch comes in and blows it away. Would be nice to have a heisman winning QB ;)

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by pantera17

Haha wow. You do realize the only way you can truly judge someones play is to see it for yourself, right? Because numbers can become incredibly skewed. And in Connors case have.

It's like saying Montana is a better quarterback then Marino because he won more games. But if you ever actually watched the two QBs then anyone could tell that Marino is better.

Yes...and I watch EVERY GAME...either from the stands...or on tv...several times over again! And u do realize that someone's numbers can become incredibly skewed according to the defenses they face right?! Don't forget that part!

I honestly think Montana is better...not bc of rings & wins...bc I know for a fact that it takes TEAMS to win those...but Montana was a great QB & made the best of what he had...and found ways to win...Connor does the same thing!