Shaw or Thompson

[2four2Gamecock]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

He also said that immediately following the clemson game.

the point of this thread is having a little fun discussing/debating who we think should be starting. We have all known what was going to happen and who was going to start for 11 or 12 days now. None of us are under any illusions that we have the authority to make that decision...and all of us (I think) are more than happy to trust SOS. We just like weighing the pros and cons and seeing if someone else has something to offer that we have yet to think of.

This thread is just a discussion...it has never been a decision maker.

I was just pointing out that HBC does not agree with you regarding this staement:

"but I do believe that Dylan is playing the complete position of QB better for us right now"

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by 2four2Gamecock

I was just pointing out that HBC does not agree with you regarding this staement:

"but I do believe that Dylan is playing the complete position of QB better for us right now"

That's funny, because I think that he does, and when I read your post, that was the farthest thing from my mind.

Spurrier is an offensive genius. So, if we can see that DT sees the field better, goes through his progressions, utilizes his team mates better, and doesn't tuck the ball and take off too soon, then I am positive that SOS sees it too.

If I were guessing, and that is all any of us are doing here, I would say that SOS is forcing, but opening the door a little, for DT to take the starting position. To prove it on the field. This isn't, "It's Connor's game to win or lose it." This is, "Connor is going to start, but Dylan is going to play too."

Now, how much if any does Dylan play? We'll see.

[2four2Gamecock]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

That's funny, because I think that he does, and when I read your post, that was the farthest thing from my mind.

Spurrier is an offensive genius. So, if we can see that DT sees the field better, goes through his progressions, utilizes his team mates better, and doesn't tuck the ball and take off too soon, then I am positive that SOS sees it too.

If I were guessing, and that is all any of us are doing here, I would say that SOS is forcing, but opening the door a little, for DT to take the starting position. To prove it on the field. This isn't, "It's Connor's game to win or lose it." This is, "Connor is going to start, but Dylan is going to play too."

Now, how much if any does Dylan play? We'll see.

I guess you must have thought I believed people were masquerading around on this board thinking they get to decide who starts at QB. It goes without saying we both understand we don’t get to decide. I was attempting to point out that there are 2 sides regarding our QB situation and sometimes you can determine who may be right by looking to an offensive genius and seeing what he thinks based on practice time, starting games , playing time.... Maybe HBC knows a little about it and is practicing it for us.

Like you said, I do trust HBC and if he thinks Connor is going to practice, start and play significant minutes in the Bowl game than that is the guy who is best suited to do it. If DT does all these things you mention better than Connor but Connor still starts, then there are other more important factors that determine who is the better QB.

I think Connor is better than Dylan, however, I think Dylan is a very good QB. I do not like to see Connor leave the pocket too early, but I love to see his presence in the pocket the way he avoids the rush, keeps plays alive and makes positive gains from some hopeless plays. I hate to watch Dylan take sacks, but I love to see him survey the field when he has time and make some strong-armed throws downfield. I honestly believe we will be fine with either for our bowl game and I hope they do both get to play. I can see them both doing very well against Michigan.

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by 2four2Gamecock

I honestly believe we will be fine with either for our bowl game and I hope they do both get to play. I can see them both doing very well against Michigan.

We agree.

And ftr...just trying to keep things in perspective. Not you, but there seems to be a couple here taking this a little too seriously...

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

I think i see the problem with most team Dylan fans...they just see what they want to see! Hahaha
Dude...I never said anything about Connor is better than either of them...i said he throws better...& he runs faster...there are still other intangibles that makes both Cam & Tebow better. Cam had a stronger arm...but threw the deep ball b/c the secondary snuck up thinking he was gonna run...as far as just a straight up accurate passer...I think Connor is better

That helps clarify. But you do see how someone could take "Connor is a faster runner and better passer" to mean "Connor is a better QB", correct?

[sandstorm2001]

Wow. Very even split.

I said Thompson for basically one reason.

Our offense is clearly different depending on which QB is on the field. Gameplanning for Thompson would be entirely different than gameplanning for Connor Shaw. Everyone and their mother expects us to start Shaw in the bowl game. Let them think that, and then let the Michigan sidelines crap themselves when Thompson comes out and they realize their entire Gameplan is incorrect. I think it would be fun to see what Thompson could do with the ability to practice with the first team through all of the bowl practices.

The counter argument to this is obviously that Thompson has yet to prove anything against a good defense all year.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

He also said that immediately following the clemson game.

the point of this thread is having a little fun discussing/debating who we think should be starting. We have all known what was going to happen and who was going to start for 11 or 12 days now. None of us are under any illusions that we have the authority to make that decision...and all of us (I think) are more than happy to trust SOS. We just like weighing the pros and cons and seeing if someone else has something to offer that we have yet to think of.

This thread is just a discussion...it has never been a decision maker.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Jubjub Bird

Tebow and Cam did shed a bunch of tackles, but that wasn't their only game. They both passed for a lot more yards than Connor too. Cam's combined passing and rushing yards are ridiculous.

Tebow
2007 3,286 passing / 895 rushing
2008 2,746 passing / 673 rushing
2009 2,895 passing / 910 rushing.

Cam
2010 2,854 passing / 1473 rushing.

Connor
2011 1,448 passing / 525 rushing over 8 games
2012 1,732 passing / 339 rushing over roughly 9 games.

Of course, Connor has yet to play a full season, so his numbers are naturally lower, but projecting his stats over 13 games you get about 2,353 passing yards / 853 rushing yards in 2011 and 2,500 passing yards / 490 rushing yards in 2012.

The numbers show that Connor is a very good QB, but he is not on the level of championship-winning spread-type QB's yet. Can he get there? Maybe. But I think this year showed that it is going to be difficult for Connor to make it through an entire SEC season if he relies too much on his legs. Tebow and Cam could take hits that Connor will never be able to take. But even with their running abilities, both of those guys still threw for a lot more yards than Connor.

Good assessment...but keep in mind these were both heisman winners and Connors averages isn't that far off. He finished 12th in the country in QB rating this year and with the schedule he had that is not bad.
And this year he was hurt...so you can't go off of this year alone.

[Jubjub Bird]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Good assessment...but keep in mind these were both heisman winners and Connors averages isn't that far off. He finished 12th in the country in QB rating this year and with the schedule he had that is not bad.
And this year he was hurt...so you can't go off of this year alone.

Thanks for the props.

As far as Tebow and Newton being Heisman winners, I agree. My point is that you compared Connor to them and said that he is better than them in some ways, but I think the numbers show that he is not in their league. Especially Newton--I mean the dude accounted for more than 4,300 yards. Dang.

If Connor improves his passing numbers next year as much as he did this past year, he'll get up to 2,650 yards or so which wouldn't be too far removed from Tebow's passing numbers his 2008 championship season. And it's possible that Connor's injuries this year were a fluke and he'll get his rushing numbers back up next season too.

Personally, I think Connor's speed and shiftiness caught defenses by surprise in 2011, up until the Nebraska game when he was more or less stifled as a runner. I think 2012 showed that a good defense will either bottle Connor up effectively or make sure he takes some good licks, and probably both. This year, Connor's body wasn't up to taking the licks, but maybe next year will be different.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

That helps clarify. But you do see how someone could take "Connor is a faster runner and better passer" to mean "Connor is a better QB", correct?

Yes...I can see where it could be taken that way...but I am very big on being proven...which is why I think Connor should still be the starter. But as far as Connor being compared to Cam or Tebow...I don't think his overall body of work is proven to be anything what they have done...but just his completion rating (given I know a lot are short passes) shows he is a very accurate passer

[pantera17]

I can't wait to see Connor in the bowl game. Hopefully a months rest will do him well.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Yes...I can see where it could be taken that way...but I am very big on being proven...which is why I think Connor should still be the starter. But as far as Connor being compared to Cam or Tebow...I don't think his overall body of work is proven to be anything what they have done...but just his completion rating (given I know a lot are short passes) shows he is a very accurate passer

I understand. And again, he is a much better passer than Tebow, so I get that assessment.

[Garnet girl]

It is a tight race. That means we have two good QB's, a luxury.

[LimpCock]

ill take tommy beecher

[DiamondGamecock]

Originally Posted by Garnet girl

It is a tight race. That means we have two good QB's, a luxury.

Something we haven't had in decades, its nice to have.