Manti Teo

[I Bleed Garnet]

Jones seems like a one trick pony to me.
Although draft him to a 3-4 team and put him on the outside and he's rushing the passer all day.

[JT21]

I don't necessarily see the hype with Jones either, outside of his statistics. Granted haven't seen a ton of the guy but don't ever see him blow up/by opponents like Clowney does or some of the other guys you might compare him to like a Von Miller. Was quiet in the SC and Bama games.

[I Bleed Garnet]

I see Jones more as a DE even though he plays LB

Do not think he could play in a 4-3 scheme.

[IgotGAME]

I still don't get it...what exactly has Te'o done to be "PLAYER of the year" besides the 7 ints? The keyword is PLAYER..not best background, or popular team, or nicest..

Funny thing is, if Clowney came out this year, he would likely be the #1 pick in the draft and Jones would probably go ahead of Te'o as well...but wait...I thought Te'o was the "PLAYER of the year"...yea so much for that award.

The difference between Clowney & Jones is that they are at the top of all the key statistical categories for their positions. You can't say the same thing about the "PLAYER of the year"

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by JT21

I'll take Ogletree over Te'o long term in the NFL. Still fairly raw and has some character questions, but what a freak of an athlete. Has shown really good abillity in coverage and in run support. His play jumps out far more often than Te'o's does from what I've watched of the two.

Sounds like why people said to take Jamarcus Russell. Potential gets you fired. Teo is the sure pick, luck an Andrew Luck, whereas Olgertree is the Ryan Leaf/RG III pick. It could go either way with a guy like Olgertree. I also think he is a bit overrated as a defender. Great athlete but not a very good instinctive player.

[I Bleed Garnet]

RG3 shouldn't be compared to Leaf, he never had any character concerns.

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Garnet

RG3 shouldn't be compared to Leaf, he never had any character concerns.

Just meant crazy talent that could be a great upside, but could also not translate or fail more likely than the other. I couldn't really think of any hot head character issues that have worked out, that's why I used RG III since only guy close to that type of idea. I guess Michael Vick could be an example, but I don't consider him to have been a success.

[I Bleed Garnet]

Yea I don't think RG3 is fair because he's got elite measurable as well as the intangible aspects you talk about (Leadership ability etc)

A good one could be Cam, but it's too early to judge any of those guys right now.

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Garnet

Yea I don't think RG3 is fair because he's got elite measurable as well as the intangible aspects you talk about (Leadership ability etc)

A good one could be Cam, but it's to early too judge any of those guys right now.

True. Cam would be a much better example.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

True. Cam would be a much better example.

So Lalli: Teo > Clowney, in your mind?

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

So Lalli: Teo > Clowney, in your mind?

I think, since different positions, its hard to answer straight up. Obviously, having either one would be great, but if I was drafting a team and needed a MLB and DE, I'd take Clowney before taking Teo. I don't think you can say one is clear cut a better "defender", because different positions, but you can see that Clowney, in the position that he plays, has the greater ability to be a game changer.

I think it is like asking someone, in their prime who would you want, Ray Lewis or Julius Peppers? Can't go wrong, but can't exactly definitive on who is better.

[I Bleed Garnet]

At the next level an Elite Pass rusher is needed over an Elite Inside LB.
And an Elite QB over all.

So if Clowney was in last year draft I'd take Luck over him. This year I'd take Clowney (weak QB class) and next year is incomplete because we don't know who would show up.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

I think, since different positions, its hard to answer straight up. Obviously, having either one would be great, but if I was drafting a team and needed a MLB and DE, I'd take Clowney before taking Teo. I don't think you can say one is clear cut a better "defender", because different positions, but you can see that Clowney, in the position that he plays, has the greater ability to be a game changer.

But Teo still deserves Player of the Year, even though he's not the first guy you would pick between him and another candidate. Got it.

Clowney's done more against much tougher competition. I understand they're at different positions, but watching both, I don't see how anyone can argue who's the more talented player.

Teo's story and University are what won him those awards as much as anything. He's a good player who has a great hype machine pushing him.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

I think, since different positions, its hard to answer straight up. Obviously, having either one would be great, but if I was drafting a team and needed a MLB and DE, I'd take Clowney before taking Teo. I don't think you can say one is clear cut a better "defender", because different positions, but you can see that Clowney, in the position that he plays, has the greater ability to be a game changer.

I think it is like asking someone, in their prime who would you want, Ray Lewis or Julius Peppers? Can't go wrong, but can't exactly definitive on who is better.

Teo is not remotely as good as Ray Lewis. Sorry.

[Copperhead]

ND does just as good without him. A&M and K State not so much without their QBs.
OVERRATED AND WINNNG ON SYMPATHY VOTES

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Teo is not remotely as good as Ray Lewis. Sorry.

In college terms he is. The one is a dominant LB and the other a dominant DE. My point is that saying because you'd take one over the other isn't the same as saying who is a better football players.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Garnet

At the next level an Elite Pass rusher is needed over an Elite Inside LB.
And an Elite QB over all.

So if Clowney was in last year draft I'd take Luck over him. This year I'd take Clowney (weak QB class) and next year is incomplete because we don't know who would show up.

Have to factor in team need as well. If NE ended up w/ the 1st pick (through a trade, most likely) they're probably not taking Luck. (But maybe. Luck is the QB equivalent of Clowney to me in terms of being NFL ready.)

[I Bleed Garnet]

If NE has the first pick of the draft last year they're trading down.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

In college terms he is. The one is a dominant LB and the other a dominant DE. My point is that saying because you'd take one over the other isn't the same as saying who is a better football players.

So you wouldn't take the best player? What type of GM are you?

Either you think Teo is a better football player than Clowney or you don't. It's pretty simple, and doesn't need all of the "position most likely to make an impact" equivocating.

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

But Teo still deserves Player of the Year, even though he's not the first guy you would pick between him and another candidate. Got it.

Clowney's done more against much tougher competition. I understand they're at different positions, but watching both, I don't see how anyone can argue who's the more talented player.

Teo's story and University are what won him those awards as much as anything. He's a good player who has a great hype machine pushing him.

It isn't about talent. It is about performance and when you are the key figure on a top 3 D who is playing for the national title you are going to get awards over others. It isn't because he plays for ND or the sad story. He prior to the year was hyped as a finalist for these awards, just as Clowney was.

Teo earned the awards, it wasn't a pity vote.