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Old 12-13-2012, 04:15 PM   #61
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Default Re: Retire #21

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondGamecock View Post
While I understand this, he is ultimately almost fully responsible for this university's turn around. I understand the policy, but to fans everywhere, this policy can be rewritten, especially when the name Lattimore is involved.

There is and always will be only one Lattimore, and #21 is and always will be connected to that.
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Originally Posted by Kazak View Post
Dude, I love Lattimore and everything he's done, but that statement is a bit over the top. Dial it back just a hair. Steve Spurrier is the person most responsible for the turn around of the program.
I think that DiamondGamecock is spot on here.

Lou Holtz talked about the need for a 'culture change' while he was here. He obviously mentioned this to SOS because SOS was talking about it from the moment that he arrived. And each of them worked hard to bring this change about. BUT...it wasn't until Marcus arrived that it began to happen...at least not to where we fans could see it. I see it as the perfect storm...the class before Marcus had some people that laid a good foundation...Swearinger, Cunninham, Taylor, Wilson, Johnson, Jeffery, etc (some were reds, I know)...but they had the work ethic and determination. When Marcus arrived, you had the leader that the others would follow and the one that pushed us through the culture change...over the top...however you might want to say it. With each of his 30-something carries per game that season, you saw him not only gaining yardage, but carrying our team on his back (literally and figuratively) to a new maturity that we had never seen before and that was, and still is, infectious.

Marcus was the 'straw' that made the difference Holtz and Spurrier had been talking about. So, from that perspective, Diamond is 100% correct and doesn't need dialing back.

Not trying to slam you here, but, just pointing out why I agree with him. This is the ultimate impact that Marcus will leave with us. Having gone from a team in the SEC to being an SEC team. He got us over that hump. It took everyone (even Ellis Johnson) to do it, but he was the difference maker that got us over the hump.

Spurrier in as much said this yesterday in the pc.

Didn't mean to post so much, but didn't know how to say this without this being this long.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:58 PM   #62
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
I think that DiamondGamecock is spot on here.

Lou Holtz talked about the need for a 'culture change' while he was here. He obviously mentioned this to SOS because SOS was talking about it from the moment that he arrived. And each of them worked hard to bring this change about. BUT...it wasn't until Marcus arrived that it began to happen...at least not to where we fans could see it. I see it as the perfect storm...the class before Marcus had some people that laid a good foundation...Swearinger, Cunninham, Taylor, Wilson, Johnson, Jeffery, etc (some were reds, I know)...but they had the work ethic and determination. When Marcus arrived, you had the leader that the others would follow and the one that pushed us through the culture change...over the top...however you might want to say it. With each of his 30-something carries per game that season, you saw him not only gaining yardage, but carrying our team on his back (literally and figuratively) to a new maturity that we had never seen before and that was, and still is, infectious.

Marcus was the 'straw' that made the difference Holtz and Spurrier had been talking about. So, from that perspective, Diamond is 100% correct and doesn't need dialing back.

Not trying to slam you here, but, just pointing out why I agree with him. This is the ultimate impact that Marcus will leave with us. Having gone from a team in the SEC to being an SEC team. He got us over that hump. It took everyone (even Ellis Johnson) to do it, but he was the difference maker that got us over the hump.

Spurrier in as much said this yesterday in the pc.

Didn't mean to post so much, but didn't know how to say this without this being this long.
Yea...I really don't think there is enough they could do to honor Marcus honestly...short of naming the stadium after him. I know it is easy to get up in emotions...but I don't know of one player who has meant more to turning around a program..maybe ever. There are things he did for USC that you can't really quantify in stats...and some you can. I mean he scored more td's than any other rb...ever...in @ 2.5 seasons too.

I think when all is said and done with Spurrier's tenure here..they could do some mural kinda thing around the stadium with faces of all the outstanding players under Spurrier and complete a list of those players from those classes that accomplished all of those first at USC
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:35 PM   #63
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Default Re: Retire #21

Retire the jersey but not the number.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:39 PM   #64
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by DiamondGamecock View Post
When did retiring a jersey become extreme. I never said a thing about a statue or anything else. Just retire the number and jersey.
If a guy gets hurt and even the opposing team comes onto the field for support, the guy is something else all together. You probably won't ever see that again.
i wouldnt use the word extreme, but when you bypass the current policy which hasnt seen a single football player have their jersey retired since it was implemented i dont see the need to try to ignore or go beyond that policy. im not saying youre saying this, but i almost get a sense from those ignoring the policy that we're somehow slighting him if we let someone else wear his number down the line.
my position would be the same if he won us a national championship and a heisman. some places retire numbers, some places retire jerseys/ring of honor. we initially retired some numbers then we switched to the current retire jerseys policy. having your jersey retired is the current greatest honor a gamecock player can receive as an individual. its a hell of a a honor.

i say that completely echoing your stance on him as a player and person.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:49 PM   #65
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by Spurrier_Superior_One View Post
Retire the jersey but not the number.
This is exactly what every level headed person in this thread has been saying. Everyone wants his jersey retired and placed in a ring of honor but it would be stupid to retire his number.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:51 PM   #66
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by FlorenceCock View Post
This is exactly what every level headed person in this thread has been saying. Everyone wants his jersey retired and placed in a ring of honor but it would be stupid to retire his number.
Was it stupid to retire Sterling Sharpe's # then?
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:52 PM   #67
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by DiamondGamecock View Post
Was it stupid to retire Sterling Sharpe's # then?
Retiring a jersey just makes more sense than retiring a number
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:04 PM   #68
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by Mick Chicken View Post
Retiring a jersey just makes more sense than retiring a number
I guess it doesn't matter either way, but the number still symbolizes him in a way. Every time you see someone wear it you will just think of Lattimore.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:09 PM   #69
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by DiamondGamecock View Post
I guess it doesn't matter either way, but the number still symbolizes him in a way. Every time you see someone wear it you will just think of Lattimore.
Watching Jason Barnes wear #4 was difficult at times but it doesn't change what Rice did while wearing it... and so on and so on
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:12 PM   #70
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Default Re: Retire #21

FTR I just don't like the idea of retiring any number. Retiring jerseys, statues, plaques, ing of honor etc are all plenty good enough for remembering great players.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:21 PM   #71
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Default Re: Retire #21

Since the Garnet Walk has become a new tradition at USC how about statues of the Gamecock Greats line the walk. Just off the top of my head Big George, Joe Morrison, Sterling Sharpe, Todd Ellis, Marcus Lattimore, and eventually HBC. Have the fans, players, adminstrators, and maybe national sportswriters vote on an addition or two every year.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:39 PM   #72
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by garnet_tacos View Post
How about USC starts a space program and puts a statue of him on the moon?
Love Lattimore, but you guys are taking this to the extreme
LOL. I agree. Great player, one of the best no doubt and even a better person but all of this statue talk is a bit much. If George doesn't have a statue, then I think it would be a reach to have one of Marcus. But leave it to DiamondGamecock to start a ridiculous exaggerated thread that reeks of hyperbole and embellishment...
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:53 PM   #73
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Default Re: Retire #21

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LOL. I agree. Great player, one of the best no doubt and even a better person but all of this statue talk is a bit much. If George doesn't have a statue, then I think it would be a reach to have one of Marcus. But leave it to DiamondGamecock to start a ridiculous exaggerated thread that reeks of hyperbole and embellishment...
Yeh, coming from the guy who says we should hire Trooper Taylor to be our WR coach. TY for trying to derail my thread, but your efforts have failed.

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Old 12-13-2012, 07:42 PM   #74
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by DiamondGamecock View Post
Was it stupid to retire Sterling Sharpe's # then?
In retrospect, yes.

Back then it probably seemed like a great idea. So did astroturf.

I'm all in favor of retiring jerseys, putting up signs commemorating players and records they broke, a "Ring Of Horor" or whatever you choose to call it, or plaques along the Garnet Walk...something like that.

But retiring numbers is foolish if you grow as a program and keep bringing in great talent...you run out of numbers. And statues are a bit much.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:56 PM   #75
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Default Re: Retire #21

As I said in another thread, we are all sentimental right now for Lattimore, but don't let your emotions take it too far. We have retired four jerseys in our history, FOUR! And two of those were because the players died while playing for us. The other two are George Rogers and Sterling Sharpe!

Latti was great and will always be fondly remembered, but his actions on the field did not warrant retiring his number IMO.

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#2 Sterling Sharpe (1983, 85-87)
Sharpe, wore #2, is the school's all-time leading receiver with 169 catches for 2,497 yards and 17 touchdowns. Sharpe had his jersey retired following the 1987 regular season. He became only the second Gamecock to have his jersey retired while he was still active at the school. In fact, both Sharpe and George Rogers played in the Gator Bowl in their final collegiate game. Sharpe was a number one draft pick by the Green Bay Packers.

#37 Steve Wadiak (1948-51)
Wadiak wore #37 for Carolina and was the first to have his number retired after a tragic automobile accident claimed his life. Wadiak, who still appears throughout the South Carolina record book, was the school's all-time rushing leader for 28 years after his senior season.

#38 George Rogers (1977-80)
Probably the school's most well known player was also USC's Heisman Trophy winner - George Rogers. He had his #38 retired during halftime ceremonies at Carolina's final 1980 home game. Rogers was the first USC player to have his jersey retired while still active at the school.

#56 Mike Johnson (1964)
Center Mike Johnson, #56, became gravely ill before the start of his junior season, and the illness cut short a potentially great football career. Johnson had finished his sophomore campaign as the regular center. When he died in 1965, his number was retired.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:11 PM   #76
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by cockyhoskins View Post
As I said in another thread, we are all sentimental right now for Lattimore, but don't let your emotions take it too far. We have retired four jerseys in our history, FOUR! And two of those were because the players died while playing for us. The other two are George Rogers and Sterling Sharpe!

Latti was great and will always be fondly remembered, but his actions on the field did not warrant retiring his number IMO.
Just for the sake of argument, if "dying while playing" counts, shouldn't consideration be given to a player who was severely injured? In other words, if (thank God it didn't happen) Marcus had been paralyzed or had to have his leg amputated, would that suffice? By your "on the field" metric, neither Wadiak or Johnson should have theirs retired, and if Sharpe had his retired (setting records) then why not Marcus?

I'm for retiring his jersey and understand the outcry against retiring his number (as much a matter of logistics as anything), but I would be for retiring his number, personally. I think what many who are arguing against it fail to realize (like hoskins here, and not to flame) is that we're counting Marcus AMONG THE TOP 5 TO EVER PLAY HERE. It's not that we're trying to devalue Johnson, Wadiak, Sharpe, or Rogers. It's that Marcus holds as unique a position in Gamecock Nation as any of them for his impact on and off the field. It's not a slippery slope as many are arguing; it's one specific player.

I also absolutely think Big George deserves a statue. I think that honor, however, should be reserved for Heisman winners, a la Florida. (Which is why I understand the call to NOT retire the number. But anyone saying we shouldn't retire the jersey is being an A-hole, IMO.)
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:18 PM   #77
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Default Re: Retire #21

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if Sharpe had his retired (setting records) then why not Marcus?
Simply put, Marcus ain't Sharpe!

But I do see why several would love to retire his number. And I don't discount your opinion. It is a sign of respect for what Latti is and was to our university. I just think we can show that respect in a more appropriate method.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:21 PM   #78
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Originally Posted by KaneisAble View Post
Just for the sake of argument, if "dying while playing" counts, shouldn't consideration be given to a player who was severely injured? In other words, if (thank God it didn't happen) Marcus had been paralyzed or had to have his leg amputated, would that suffice? By your "on the field" metric, neither Wadiak or Johnson should have theirs retired
I forgot to comment on this too. Hopefully, we never have to face that decision! But it's a good question.

But Wadiak most definitely would have warranted a retired jersey for "on the field". He still to this day holds many of our rushing records.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:03 PM   #79
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Default Re: Retire #21

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You remember this guy, right?
Ryan Brewer was the man
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:04 PM   #80
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Default Re: Retire #21

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Was it stupid to retire Sterling Sharpe's # then?
Yes
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