The 2013 Graveyard Thread

[MikeTrainNC8]

Originally Posted by PageUSC

I agree. With our on field success these past 2-3 seasons our recruiting is not following suit.

This. We have been one of the most successful and "seen" (exposure) teams in the nation.. Zero reason recruiting should not be to a level it's never been before. Once again solely on coaches. It'd be different if we didn't have top notch facilities, great location (sunny, palm trees everywhere), great coaching and proven NFL quality development.. but we do.. we put out 2 top draft picks last year, and would have been another this year if ML hadn't got hurt.

Want to say one thing- we did find a capable replacement for ML in Mike Davis.. that was a monster get and we were lucky to pluck a top player from the state of Georgia. I can see him easily getting 1,000+ if he starts and stays healthy. Also, spur and safety-wise we are in probably the best shape in the East.. but everywhere else we will begin to suffer if we do not address them (besides DT/OL.. we are in pretty good shape there if recruiting continues- spain/stanley/wideman etc)

[Woody7687]

Same ol Carolina..... I guess we will never be elite. As much as I hate to say it. I think we have a hit our ceiling. How can you win the East, back to back 10 win seasons, beat UGA 3 times in a row, beat Clemson 4 in a row, we beat a # 1 Bama as well and didnt help us land the big boys like A&M. We are the step child I guess I will have to get used to it. As much as it sucks its better than being Clemson.... I guess

[STEPHONGILMOREFAN!]

Our recruiting has been great this year... other than losing langley and rolin... everything is chill. Step off the ledge

[MikeTrainNC8]

Originally Posted by Woody7687

Same ol Carolina..... I guess we will never be elite. As much as I hate to say it. I think we have a hit our ceiling. How can you win the East, back to back 10 win seasons, beat UGA 3 times in a row, beat Clemson 4 in a row, we beat a # 1 Bama as well and didnt help us land the big boys like A&M. We are the step child I guess I will have to get used to it. As much as it sucks its better than being Clemson.... I guess

Oh no, clemson sucks.. we will continue to own them regardless what happens. Our 5 stars actually pan out :)

[LegalCock]

We had a lot of turnover on our staff after last season. That usually causes a little dip in the recruiting because the FNGs have to establish relationships with the guys we're after. Maybe that is part of the explanation. Losing Beamer especially seems to be hurting some.

[MikeTrainNC8]

Originally Posted by STEPHONGILMOREFAN!

Our recruiting has been great this year... other than losing langley and rolin... everything is chill. Step off the ledge

We can't even get a JUCO LB (who would potentially start) to come here.. he commits a place where they already have plenty at his position. Absolutely Zero reason tamu should be more attractive, besides $$$.. it isn't like Manziel will make him better. He gets the same conference, vs the same teams, but will have more exposure (we are always on nat'l tv) and would have been in line for serious PT right out of the gate on a much better defense that has a Heisman contender on it.. I'd venture to say it isn't "great" at this point.. I certainly expected more after how we have played on the field this and these past seasons.. did not think we would be in this situation at LB or CB (only one true CB this year, when we need to be building depth there badly and get another difference maker at that position)

[CoverTwo]

A top 15-20 class, which is where USC will finish, is not average. USC's recruiting, in a year where instate talent is again pretty soft, has been good. Yes, losing Langley and Rolin sucks, but that is life when you recruit against the power 6. Recruiting is a rollercoaster and USC is in a low right now. They'll finish strong.

If you take our bottom 5 commitments:

Martin - Rivals fringe 4 star (5.7) coming out of high school with LSU and Nebraska offers.

Sasser - Good offer list that includes Stanford. 4 star on ESPN.

Camara - Not the best offer list but the staff feels he is the best fit for our SPUR position. Going to trust evaluation here but the staff has proven they know what to look for more often than not.

Cooper - Shrine Bowl stud that plays way above his rating and probably could see more offers his way if he wanted to take some visits.

Vickers - Sign & Place that would have a stout offer list if he had a chance to qualify. He is a guy that'll take a big bump up next recruiting cycle.

And even if you didn't include Vickers, that would put JP Vonasheck on the list and he has a boat load of offers.

So really, yes moral sucks, but we got some really good players coming and USC will add a few more before NSD.

[mick66]

Originally Posted by GVegasCock

Here is my concern, which has probably been mentioned before (and I am also one of those very concerned about our LB situation): we are not replacing our "superstars" with similar recruits. And by that I mean, now that Lattimore, Gilmore, and Alshon are gone, who will carry the torch to Atlanta to help win the SECC game? Clowney is the obvious choice; we only have him for one more year. This run of success started with guys like Cliff Matthews, Gilmore, Holloman, etc but it really got cranked up with #21, AJ, and Clowney. In the SEC, you better have some super studs to win the conference.

Now I am thrilled with beating teams like Clemson (which will continue), UT, and UGA. Spurrier has proven he can beat those guys. But I am greedy (and I think the HBC is also). I want to beat LSU, beat Bama, and make the BCS. Our last 3 years of success should be paying off in recruiting and it does not seem to be. Texas A&M has a great story to sell and is making it even harder.

Consider this: right now we have FOUR 4 star players committed (per Rivals). Michigan has 15! Florida has 14, UGA has 14. There is reason for concern.

While I'm not going to bash our recruiting, you do make a legit point about the 4 and 5 star guys. Yes, the recruiting services can miss and those recruits have to fit your system, etc., but as Latti/Clowney/Gilmore/Alshon prove, you have to have some big-time difference makers to win.
What could we do different? Spurrier would have to change his ways and make recruiting a priority, which won't happen. He's good, but it's just not his thing and never has been.
And it would be great if you got the feeling that the staff was putting on the full court press (a la the last few that we lost out on to A & M) for more recruits. Maybe they are and we don't know about it, but the perception is that we're more laid back when it comes to recruiting than some other programs.

[trapper82]

I am sorry but something doesn't seem right here. He went into the "dead period" of recruiting with us as the leader, and in the late afternoon yesterday he not only decides to go with Texas A&M but his dad announces it ahead of time when he had said numerous times before he wanted to announce Wednesday?

I know some of you want to blame the staff, but this just sounds strange. We were his choice going into the time when no one could contact him, but I would bet money someone did. If not to him directly, to his dad.

[brat]

What a bunch of donkey phizoo!!!!

These are, for the most part, 17-18 year olds who have been treated like stars and heroes for years. Hardly the most stable group of people on the planet.

Our coaches have been around long enough and recruited long enough to know how to recruit and what has worked in the past and how to treat them. Sooner or later you have to take them at their word that they are committed, especially if they give you no warning that they are about to change their minds.

Some years are going to be like this, where you lose a few. Last year not a single committed kid dropped off. That is even rarer of an happening. Surely our coaches didn't forget how to recruit in the space of one year?

Let's hear it from the grandstand Einsteins how they would do things differently. Tell a kid that if he takes any further visits his offer is pulled? It might work for one kid, but be the exact thing to run another off for good. I seem to recall jokes about Dabo not exactly holding firm to that rule. Strong arm kids as soon as they step on campus for a committment and then smother him with attention until NSD? Again, that might work for some kids and scare others off. Yeah, I want kids that are promised the world to sign a LOI and then see potential future problems if you decide to treat him like everyone else or conversely, continue to baby him while he is here and thus causing the rest of the team to resent favoritism. Well, we could always try to cheat. Some schools offer under the table $$$, some promise a diploma (without actually having to do the work to get one), some offer nice jobs for a family member. Hey, let's make sure SOS makes his official visit with kids early on to make an impression. Again, it might work for some, but there is no way it works for all. There would be tons of critics saying he used it too early and all the other schools get the last word. You can't have things both ways.

Each kid is different and may have different issues important to him...starting, playing near home, playing for a traditional powerhouse team, wanting to play for the team he grew up pulling for, being told straight how things are in terms of having to earn playing time, a few are serious about school and want a particular major, right down to how close by a favorite fast food restaurant is to campus (Clempson recruit last year), and many other things we would consider frivolous.

Until we win the SEC more than once, get into some BCS games, and hopefully win the national title, we are never going to be the school of choice for most kids outside our state. We live in a small state, with a small population. The further away from your home base to recruit, the more difficult it is to land someone and keep them, because we are more or less strangers with no emotional ties to the recruit or the family or friends of the recruit. Do you really expect us to recruit better than UGA? The greater Atlanta area has more population and quality football players than our entire state. GT is a distant afterthough in its own city. Unless their coaching staff is found to do human sacrifices, they are going to have a great class by default. The only way they are going to dip is to start making bad coaching hires and start losing for many years. Our own margine for error is far less.

We are doing all we reasonably and ethically can do. Being honest and recruiting fairly. As long as SOS is here, that is going to be the way it is. In the end, we get kids that really want to be here, not ones that have ulterior motives of special promises made. It took us too long to remove those type of kids from our program and get away from that kind of mindset and division that creates within a team. Let's never go back there.

Even with our up and down recruiting, we can line up with any team in the country and have an honest chance of winning. That is a pretty new situation around here. It all boils down to our kids learning to show up for every game, and then seeing who makes the most big plays, who has the better game plan, which coaches makes the best adjustments during the game, who gets the bounce of the ball, the key penalty calls in the game, etc. That is all you can ask.

Are we going to have a highly ranked team on NSD? Probably not, but it still will be good enough to help us in the future and 2014 looks like it is off to a great start, but I imagine some of those kids will, God forbid, change their minds one or more times before their own NSD. These are guillible, impressionable youngsters. Look how difficult it is for anyone that age to act in a way we would generally consider appropriate at all times. Now add one or more years of local or national media attention and see how hard it is for some to keep a rational head on. I can't count the number of immature, unreliable, dishonest people I have met twice their age or older and some of them never "grow up".

We have fine coaches, they recruit as best as the rules allow, and are honest with the recruits. That scares some away and always will. It locks others in. You take a kid at his word. It is laughable how some believe you can make them keep it or we are losing them. Until you get the signed fax in hand, you never have them. Our coaches do their jobs by presenting themselves, the program, the school, the community, in the best light possible and in the end, the chips fall where they may, because the better recruits we go after, the more other top programs are hunting them, too. Some years on the field are better than others and so it is in recruiting. The world and our program is not ending. It has never been in better shape and the future looks promising.

[LegalCock]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our coaching turnover for this class was:

Beamer > Robinson
Graham > Sands
Johnson > Botkin
Hunter > Brown

Most of those guys came in too late last cycle to help much so this is their first class. Decent effort, but it can improve. Pre and post Beamer classes aren't blowing my socks off so far. Graham was a good recruiter too, I believe. I'm hopeful Robinson can recruit and help us in NC and Brown can help in the ATL and can be an effective recruiter for us generally, but we'll see.

[CockTail]

Originally Posted by CoverTwo

A top 15-20 class, which is where USC will finish, is not average. USC's recruiting, in a year where instate talent is again pretty soft, has been good. Yes, losing Langley and Rolin sucks, but that is life when you recruit against the power 6. Recruiting is a rollercoaster and USC is in a low right now. They'll finish strong.

If you take our bottom 5 commitments:

Martin - Rivals fringe 4 star (5.7) coming out of high school with LSU and Nebraska offers.

Sasser - Good offer list that includes Stanford. 4 star on ESPN.

Camara - Not the best offer list but the staff feels he is the best fit for our SPUR position. Going to trust evaluation here but the staff has proven they know what to look for more often than not.

Cooper - Shrine Bowl stud that plays way above his rating and probably could see more offers his way if he wanted to take some visits.

Vickers - Sign & Place that would have a stout offer list if he had a chance to qualify. He is a guy that'll take a big bump up next recruiting cycle.

And even if you didn't include Vickers, that would put JP Vonasheck on the list and he has a boat load of offers.

So really, yes moral sucks, but we got some really good players coming and USC will add a few more before NSD.

C2 your points are accurate, we will finish in the top 15-20, but the problem is that we will finish 7th in our own conference. 15th is great in the ACC but not the SEC. Our goal is to win our conference, when we lose recruits to other SEC Schools, it makes them better and hurts us. If these recruits went to a Big 10 school, who cares, but when we lose to SEC schools, it means something. We should still be trying to get these additional players on our board as luxuries, instead we are having to get them out of necessity.

I don't have an answer as to what is going wrong, but I will not buy into the thinking that we should accept a 7th place fininsh in the SEC recuriting and still expect to win an SEC Championship. That is not how it is done. We have to win these battles.

[MACXIMVS]

i know what our fans could be doing

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by LegalCock

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our coaching turnover for this class was:

Beamer > Robinson
Graham > Sands
Johnson > Botkin
Hunter > Brown

Most of those guys came in too late last cycle to help much so this is their first class. Decent effort, but it can improve. Pre and post Beamer classes aren't blowing my socks off so far. Graham was a good recruiter too, I believe.

I'd love to get Chris Rumph back here in some capacity, he is very good at getting guys to visit and connecting with players.

[BuCockyfan]

Why we'll never be elite? Because we can't recruit elite.

We've ridden the coattails of an amazing class in 2009 and the stars of the 2010 class. That core of the 09 class is now gone, and we are losing A LOT of talent on defense this year.

It's very frustrating to see 3* WALK ON's at Bama, and the top kids in the South constantly go to Bama, LSU, Fla and Georgia. But you know what separates us from them? When they want a kid? They CONSTANTLY go after him, recruiters left and right, official visits, unofficial visits, the head coach showing up at practices and games.

Spurrier can coach em up all he wants, but until he starts to do what Saban, Muschamp and Miles does, he'll come up short.

[LegalCock]

Originally Posted by trapper82

I'd love to get Chris Rumph back here in some capacity, he is very good at getting guys to visit and connecting with players.

Seems like he burned down the bridges and the whole damn town, so that might be a stretch.

[duff18]

Ask Auburn and Texas and how all those top recruits are working out. I am not saying you don't need to have 4 and the occasional 5 star, but coaching up these kids is more important. I think we also put a lot of emphasis on ratings and forget how good our coaches are at evaluating talent. We've had some pretty darn good 2 and 3 star players over the past 5-6 years. Would I like to land a Foster in this class? Sure, but would we rather be Auburn right now? I guarantee that roster is littered with 4 and 5 star players.

[LegalCock]

Yeah I don't want all primadonnas, that's not good for team chemistry, but I want to get the guys the coaches want. This is just a little post-beamer anxiety coming out. No one wants to go back to the reaves classes.

[BuCockyfan]

Originally Posted by duff18

Ask Auburn and Texas and how all those top recruits are working out. I am not saying you don't need to have 4 and the occasional 5 star, but coaching up these kids is more important. I think we also put a lot of emphasis on ratings and forget how good our coaches are at evaluating talent. We've had some pretty darn good 2 and 3 star players over the past 5-6 years. Would I like to land a Foster in this class? Sure, but would we rather be Auburn right now? I guarantee that roster is littered with 4 and 5 star players.

How many BCS bowls have we gone to? How many has Auburn and Texas gone to?

Next post..

[trapper82]

I have a serious question, does the layout of our campus hurt us? I have heard from many that it's very disparate in the buildings where other schools have a town built around the school. Ours being as old as it is in the capital city we obviously see a difference, just curious if that really makes a big difference or not.