Dylan Thompson To Play

[Loathor]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

Well, I don't think that Dylan received much practice time that week, but, perseverance pays off, I have now seen the light...

I've seen this practice time trope brought up a lot in this thread... Does the second unit only run an option offense, or an air raid? Are those receivers not running the same routes that the first unit would be? I understand that familiarity between QB and receiver can help, but it's not like he's completely unaware of where they are supposed to be (or where he is supposed to put the ball) when coming in against Vandy or Florida off the bench. These poor performances by Thompson are not because he didn't get first team reps during the week, their because he wasn't facing a UAB or Clemson Secondary.

[Acockolypse Now]

No, the first unit gets the majority of the work when installing the game plan.

Running with the first unit means you get more practice time, and more time committed to learning the game plan.

[pantera17]

Originally Posted by Loathor

I've seen this practice time trope brought up a lot in this thread... Does the second unit only run an option offense, or an air raid? Are those receivers not running the same routes that the first unit would be? I understand that familiarity between QB and receiver can help, but it's not like he's completely unaware of where they are supposed to be (or where he is supposed to put the ball) when coming in against Vandy or Florida off the bench. These poor performances by Thompson are not because he didn't get first team reps during the week, their because he wasn't facing a UAB or Clemson Secondary.

No. They are because he threw how many passes aganst vandy? 3? That was first ever playing time on the road. And in short notice. Remember Shaw's first start? Yea. Didn't go to well either.

At UF. It wa hopeless anyways. After how bad shaw screwed that one up from the start. They knew we were gonna pass.

[uscgamecocks88]

Originally Posted by pantera17

No. They are because he threw how many passes aganst vandy? 3? That was first ever playing time on the road. And in short notice. Remember Shaw's first start? Yea. Didn't go to well either.

At UF. It wa hopeless anyways. After how bad shaw screwed that one up from the start. They knew we were gonna pass.

I thought his first start was 2011 vs UK where we destroyed them?

[pantera17]

Originally Posted by uscgamecocks88

I thought his first start was 2011 vs UK where we destroyed them?

Nope. His first start was the first game of 2011. ECU.

[Loathor]

Originally Posted by Acockolypse Now

No, the first unit gets the majority of the work when installing the game plan.

Running with the first unit means you get more practice time, and more time committed to learning the game plan.

I get that, but the other units aren't just standing around twiddling their thumbs. They're making it out that Thompson is coming in unprepared and lost, when he gets the same information as the first team, if not the same reps.

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by Loathor

... if not the same reps.

pantera and Acockalyse have answered this pretty well, kudos, but you learn through repetition. You don't have time out there in a game to think..."OK, who did Spurrier say to read on this play?...OK...where is the free safety?" You get that through repetition in practice and that is what Dylan was missing in the games that were cited.

QB is the one position that has to be rehearsed or practiced the most. Linebacker would be the closest defensive equivalent. Defensive backs and running backs not so much. But for a QB that has never started, on the road, in the SEC against a better than usual Vandy team...it's pretty important.

There is a reason that they practice.

[yazoo]

Originally Posted by Dizzy01

Sarcasm doesn't come accross well in type. I was merely commenting on the fact you stated he runs after making his first read while others have complained that he throws too many passes to the TEs and RBs after making a single look.

It's kind of like Spurrier saying he likes the fact that Shaw doesn't force the ball and create turnovers and then 10 minutes later saying he needs to throw the ball up more. QBs are always the most criticized player on a football team.

Understood.

The people complaining that he checks down to the TE and RBs are trying to claim that Connor lacks arm strength and can only make short passes. Those sorts are completely and totally misinformed and out of touch with reality. I firmly suspect some of them are clandestine Clemp fans trying to create some kind of QB controversy, bitter as some of the sick ones are about Carolina dominating them.

[Emery]

Originally Posted by snoopcockycock

really? if this is a serious post, then i believe you are too far gone to help. just a few years ago, we were winning an average of 6-7 games a year. we are now averaging 9-10. coincidentally, connor has a 16-3 career record as our starting qb. HE PLAYED HURT ALL SEASON LONG, AND WE STILL WON AT LEAST TEN GAMES!!!!! do you get that? and you think this progression will just flatten out, even though there are NO indicators to back this up. you are one of the most unappreciative fans i have ever seen. a qb plays his heart out, IN PAIN, all season long, and just wins. your reaction, he can't do any better than the outback bowl, and we need a backup qb, with two wins against terrible defenses to take us to a championship. there is the brink of insanity, and then there is the abyss, which you have obviously fallen into.

This was a sarcastic response to your diatribe earlier. In it, you insinuated we are over the hump and could expect to drop games that we should win which I disagree with.

I sat through the 0-21 years, but I still hope that these aren't the best years of gamecock football. We have made improvements but the only thing so far we have to show for it is a plaque of SEC East champs. Until we win the SEC I won't consider us over the hump.

As far as Shaw v Thompson, I'm glad both players play hard, but I'm not enthralled with either. My thoughts are if we clearly had a number one quarterback then Spurrier wouldn't feel the need to play Thompson. Are both adequate quarterbacks? sure, but I think there is a huge Garcia hangover and everyone is happy we don't have 5 int games anymore.

[mpilot0705]

I read through as much as I could of this thread but near the end it only sounded like *gargle gargle gargle* Oh Connor Shaw *gargle gargle*

If either was that heads and shoulders above the other they would start and play the whole game. Most of the people that think Dylan is a better QB get that...most of the Connor fans don't.

Also if you can't see that Dylan is a better passer (I'm talking just throwing the ball..take all the running and crap away for a minute) then you haven't watched much of the two. The amount of zip he can put on the ball is night and day but he can also put touch on it. The only way Shaw throws is with touch. The best example is that we hardly ever throw screens to the sideline with Shaw....go back and watch the film...we don't....you know why? They take foooooorrrrrreeeeeevvvvvvvvrrrrrrrr to get to the reciever and the key to those type of plays is getting the ball in the receivers hands ASAP. Dylan, on the other hand, comes in the game and we are able to bring that aspect of our game back into the picture which makes us harder to defend, spreads out the defense, and therefore opens up some running lanes which opens up the passing game.

Shaw is efficient but his actual yards per attempt is very low and then the receivers make a move and get him 15-20 more yards after a 2 yard dump off. As a poster before said once teams figured out to double spy him or some other way take away the dump off to the RB + TE and the scramble he was not effective at all against decent defenses. I still say the reason Shaw is so popular is because he came in and took over for a much maligned Garcia...who apparently was Satan spawn or something, but I guess I missed that too. I've been trying to stop sleeping under my rock but it is just so comfy.

[klempsux]

Originally Posted by mpilot0705

I still say the reason Shaw is so popular is because he came in and took over for a much maligned Garcia

That plays a huge part in it. There are definitely some people who despised the way Garcia carried himself on and off the field and love the way Shaw does and they let that shade into their opinion.

[uscgamecocks88]

Originally Posted by pantera17

Nope. His first start was the first game of 2011. ECU.

Oh, yeah. That game....

[snoopcockycock]

[quote=SimpleGamecock;3610799]

Originally Posted by snoopcockycock

I am not sure where you seeing us not being able to be compete with them. We SWEPT the East last year, have a 3 game winning streak against UGA & Tennessee beat, Flordia 2 straight years (prior to this year), stayed within 2 points of LSU on the road....I think we CAN compete with them. Like Emry said ealier so we just give up all hope at any success above winning a game here and there against top teams? I am a Gamecock fan whether we go 0-12 or 12-0 I have never wavered on that. Like I said earlier though when you have success you will look for new firsts. Even Spurrier has said the best part of the SC jobs are all the firsts that can be accomplished here. I guess you should have just told him this is the highest SC can go. As for that "ELITE" comment did you forget who we are playing in the Outback Bowl this year? Michigan the All Time winningest program? I bought my ticket to go to that game but I should just give it up because Championships are only for the elite.

Prior to Spurrier, Florida had never won a SEC Championship then he won 4 straight and it became, "when will he win a National Championships?" Prior to Saban LSU's last NC was in the 50's now they expect it. As a program you have to expect to be able to compete with the bests and expectations grow. We have one of the greatest coaches in SEC history, #1 ranked DE in the nation, new facilities a fanbase that is committed to supporting the program....I think our resources are fine.

i think you have misconstrued my point. i certainly think we can compete with anyone in the nation, on any given day. however, what i was reacting to was some posters unrealistic expectations that you should be able to run before you are barely able to crawl. their inability to see and appreciate the kind of progress and development this program has made in the sec is disrespectful in my opinion. the fact is that the bama's and lsu's of the sec aren't just sitting around and allowing us to catch up with them. they are bustin their asses also, and for us to have closed the gap as much as we have is nothing short of amazing.
but all great teams have slip up games, or just flat games. bama had one against tam, and florida had one against uga. the fact that we lost to two top ten teams on the road, during a three top ten teams in a row stretch, is not an indicator that our program hasn't progressed. it was a horrifyingly tough task to handle, and we fell flat in part of it. but also remember that half the starting team missed most of practice during that stretch with the flu, and that had to have an effect.
all i was saying was that our progression is easy to see, and that while we should want more, we should temper that with appreciation for what we have been able to do in recent years. yes, i want to go undefeated every year, but that isn't something even bama could do this year. we have to always want more, but also appreciate that things happen, and we will not be perfect every game out. but it still doesn't diminish what we are accomplishing, and how far we've come in the last three years.

[me4USC]

[quote=snoopcockycock;3611857]

Originally Posted by SimpleGamecock

i think you have misconstrued my point. i certainly think we can compete with anyone in the nation, on any given day. however, what i was reacting to was some posters unrealistic expectations that you should be able to run before you are barely able to crawl. their inability to see and appreciate the kind of progress and development this program has made in the sec is disrespectful in my opinion. the fact is that the bama's and lsu's of the sec aren't just sitting around and allowing us to catch up with us. they are bustin their asses also, and for us to have closed the gap as much as we have is nothing short of amazing. but all great teams have slip up games, or just flat games. bama had one against tam, and florida had one against uga. the fact that we lost to two top ten teams on the road, during a three top ten teams in a row stretch is not an indicator that our program hasn't progressed. it was a horrifyingly tough task to handle, and we fell flat in part of it. but also remember that half the starting team missed most of practice during that stretch with the flu, and that had to have an effect.
all i was saying was that our progression is easy to see, and that while we should want more, we should temper that with appreciation for what we have been able to do in recent years.

Several of the players still had the flu when we played Florida. They played anyway, but it must have been extremely difficult.

[Dizzy01]

Originally Posted by mpilot0705

I read through as much as I could of this thread but near the end it only sounded like *gargle gargle gargle* Oh Connor Shaw *gargle gargle*

If either was that heads and shoulders above the other they would start and play the whole game. Most of the people that think Dylan is a better QB get that...most of the Connor fans don't.

Also if you can't see that Dylan is a better passer (I'm talking just throwing the ball..take all the running and crap away for a minute) then you haven't watched much of the two. The amount of zip he can put on the ball is night and day but he can also put touch on it. The only way Shaw throws is with touch. The best example is that we hardly ever throw screens to the sideline with Shaw....go back and watch the film...we don't....you know why? They take foooooorrrrrreeeeeevvvvvvvvrrrrrrrr to get to the reciever and the key to those type of plays is getting the ball in the receivers hands ASAP. Dylan, on the other hand, comes in the game and we are able to bring that aspect of our game back into the picture which makes us harder to defend, spreads out the defense, and therefore opens up some running lanes which opens up the passing game.

Shaw is efficient but his actual yards per attempt is very low and then the receivers make a move and get him 15-20 more yards after a 2 yard dump off. As a poster before said once teams figured out to double spy him or some other way take away the dump off to the RB + TE and the scramble he was not effective at all against decent defenses. I still say the reason Shaw is so popular is because he came in and took over for a much maligned Garcia...who apparently was Satan spawn or something, but I guess I missed that too. I've been trying to stop sleeping under my rock but it is just so comfy.

Two things I find interesting in this:

1) Having a slightly stronger arm does not make you a better passer. Football history is full of guys with strong arms who were mediocre QBs because they had accuracy or made consistently poor decisions. It's also funny to throw out stats like "rushing" when discussing who is the better passer while at the same time neglecting to look at completion percentage.

2) Love the knock on Shaw for his "dump" off passes while praising Thompson for throwing screen passes. One actually results in a forward pass and one is a glorifies lateral but somehow going sideways is more impressive than going forward.

[klempsux]

Originally Posted by Dizzy01

2) Love the knock on Shaw for his "dump" off passes while praising Thompson for throwing screen passes. One actually results in a forward pass and one is a glorifies lateral but somehow going sideways is more impressive than going forward.

I would much rather have a successful screen pass that's a "lateral" than a dumpoff when the play was designed to go for more. You do realize that you can't really compare the two?

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Dizzy01

Two things I find interesting in this:

1) Having a slightly stronger arm does not make you a better passer. Football history is full of guys with strong arms who were mediocre QBs because they had accuracy or made consistently poor decisions. It's also funny to throw out stats like "rushing" when discussing who is the better passer while at the same time neglecting to look at completion percentage.

2) Love the knock on Shaw for his "dump" off passes while praising Thompson for throwing screen passes. One actually results in a forward pass and one is a glorifies lateral but somehow going sideways is more impressive than going forward.

Very well said!!

What team Dylan is still failing to realize is there is no arguing the facts...and Connors stats (facts) shows that he is the more accurate QB and playing against better defenses at that. As far as the dump off passes...Peyton Manning throws MANY dump off and screen & short passes & he is the best QB in the league...why do we not hear any knocks when he does it

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Very well said!!

What team Dylan is still failing to realize is there is no arguing the facts...and Connors stats (facts) shows that he is the more accurate QB and playing against better defenses at that. As far as the dump off passes...Peyton Manning throws MANY dump off and screen & short passes & he is the best QB in the league...why do we not hear any knocks when he does it

And what grip&rip is still failing to realize is that those so called "facts" that he keeps referring to do not take into account:

*the number of wide open receivers that are left out there when Connor takes off because he either doesn't see them or he won't throw them the ball or he can't throw the ball far enough to get it to them.

*the final minute of the LSU game when CS had two complete passes to Lattimore...over the middle...for negligible gains...costing us valuable time...before throwing the interception.

*how the panic attack that he suffered in the LSU game continued through the next week at Florida

*that Dylan Thompson is the only Gamecock QB to have two Wide Receivers gain over 100 yards in the same game since CS has been our starter

*the missed defensive read on the first play of the Florida game that resulted in his turning the ball over to Florida on the 2 yard line

*that CS's leading receiver for the season is a running back (again, either because he can't see down field or he can't/won't throw the ball down field)

*that at least Dylan will give the other guys (namely the wide receivers) a chance to make a play without the HBC dancing around on the sidelines showing him how to make the throw (LSU)

*that our offense with CS leading it ranks near the bottom in average yards per play

and a multitude of other things.

Facts are useful when used correctly. Knowing what they include and what all they do not include is imperative in understanding them...and thus applying them.

[cockybusiness2]

Man... now I get it... If Shaw starts we will lose... Wait, wait if Thompson starts we will lose... Maybe we should stay home and save the money.

How did we win 10 games this year... I'll call SOS and break the news ... Lets just give up now. Maybe we can sell that land next to the Farmers Market and fairgrounds

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by cockybusiness2

Man... now I get it... If Shaw starts we will lose... Wait, wait if Thompson starts we will lose... Maybe we should stay home and save the money.

How did we win 10 games this year... I'll call SOS and break the news ... Lets just give up now. Maybe we can sell that land next to the Farmers Market and fairgrounds

No need to go all Negative Nellie on us. We'll win with either QB starting for us. This is just a discussion that is supposed to be about Dylan playing in the bowl game...that morphed into who is the better QB...then morphed into (by the CS 'supporters') slamming the other QB...

We may quibble a bit amongst ourselves, but you outside people best leave us alone. (Charlie Daniels)