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Old 12-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #241
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

I'm looking forward to seeing both of them play against the same team. This game will give a more accurate picture of their abilities than all of the statistics.

Thompson's passes were wonderful against ECU, UAB, and CU, but what most impressed me was his ability to control the ball for 40 minutes of the CU game. Our defense is among the best in the country, but they don't perform as well when they have to play the whole game and become exhausted. They can really kick butt for 20 minutes.

Has Shaw controlled the ball for 40 minutes of any game this year? This is a sincere question.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:12 PM   #242
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by klempsux View Post
I would much rather have a successful screen pass that's a "lateral" than a dumpoff when the play was designed to go for more. You do realize that you can't really compare the two?
Exactly how many "successful" screen plays have you seen run this season by the Gamecocks? The poor blocking outside rarely produces positive yards and most go for 2 yards or no gain. These only work when the defense is playing soft or there is good blocking or moves which rarely if ever happen.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:23 PM   #243
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Dizzy01 View Post
Exactly how many "successful" screen plays have you seen run this season by the Gamecocks? The poor blocking outside rarely produces positive yards and most go for 2 yards or no gain. These only work when the defense is playing soft or there is good blocking or moves which rarely if ever happen.
When Shaw is in the game....zero....when Dylan was in the game...quite a few actually. That's one of the main reasons DL stayed so high on the depth chart, particularly when Dylan was playing. He is a heck of a downfield blocker. Watching Bruce and Ace blocking for each other on those WR Screens in the Clemson game was a thing of beauty. The thing about these screens is you can keep running them until they come up and play man press coverage or some other tight coverage and then you either hit them deep or with a draw play up the gut after they take all of the men out of the box. Go watch the playcalling from the games Dylan started and we gameplanned for his style and you will see how much smoother our offense seems to run. We also don't seem to wait until the last possible second to snap the ball. We looked a lot more fluid with him in the game.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:36 PM   #244
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
And what grip&rip is still failing to realize is that those so called "facts" that he keeps referring to do not take into account:

*the number of wide open receivers that are left out there when Connor takes off because he either doesn't see them or he won't throw them the ball or he can't throw the ball far enough to get it to them.

*the final minute of the LSU game when CS had two complete passes to Lattimore...over the middle...for negligible gains...costing us valuable time...before throwing the interception.

*how the panic attack that he suffered in the LSU game continued through the next week at Florida

*that Dylan Thompson is the only Gamecock QB to have two Wide Receivers gain over 100 yards in the same game since CS has been our starter

*the missed defensive read on the first play of the Florida game that resulted in his turning the ball over to Florida on the 2 yard line

*that CS's leading receiver for the season is a running back (again, either because he can't see down field or he can't/won't throw the ball down field)

*that at least Dylan will give the other guys (namely the wide receivers) a chance to make a play without the HBC dancing around on the sidelines showing him how to make the throw (LSU)

*that our offense with CS leading it ranks near the bottom in average yards per play

and a multitude of other things.

Facts are useful when used correctly. Knowing what they include and what all they do not include is imperative in understanding them...and thus applying them.
*Dylan misses a number of WR's also...all QB's do...nobody is saying he is perfect...he has a lot to improve on...but not as much as Dylan...i would rather him miss WR's every now and then than throw to the opposing team

*LSU was his worse game of the year...that one and the first half of the Florida game. But even after the pick...he still came down and drove the field and put his team in position to win. The D let LSU rush for over 250 yards on them...so no way that was just his fault for losing to LSU.

*You are absolutely too delerious and nieve if you think that Connors pick vs LSU had anything to do with a corner that came unblocked the first play of the game at Florida. Also the rest of the mistakes made by the ST's and the other fumbles by other players

*Look at the Tennessee game...Justice and Bruce each had 100 yards. If you want to argue that Justice isn't a WR...a TE is pretty much the same thing...just bigger and used for blocking a lot more. And again...what D's have Dylan faced?

*Throwing the ball to your RB when he is the best player on your team is nothing to frown upon. Our OL hasn't done a great job this year against good teams...so when you have pressure coming...the dump off to the RB is the best option

*again...LSU was the worse game he had...SOS thought he had got hit in the head that game b/c he didn't make good decisions...but notice in the presser after the game...he said "Connor has played beautifully all year"...but let me guess...he don't know what he is talking about?! HAHAHAHA

*offense being near the bottom is what happens when you play in the SEC...there aren't many teams going to be ranked with good O's when you play teams like LSU, Bama, Georgia, Florida...great defenses...that is just common sense! And a lot of the offense not producing falls on the OL...would you fault Latti or Connor or anyone else that Latti ran for just 50 yds againts LSU or would you put that on the OL?


Again...stats are facts...twist it how you want...the FACT that Connor has played tougher D's and has better comp percentage and QB rating is nothing short of the TRUTH of who the better QB is
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:36 PM   #245
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by me4USC View Post
I'm looking forward to seeing both of them play against the same team. This game will give a more accurate picture of their abilities than all of the statistics.

Thompson's passes were wonderful against ECU, UAB, and CU, but what most impressed me was his ability to control the ball for 40 minutes of the CU game. Our defense is among the best in the country, but they don't perform as well when they have to play the whole game and become exhausted. They can really kick butt for 20 minutes.

Has Shaw controlled the ball for 40 minutes of any game this year? This is a sincere question.
Our defense just tired out at Florida because our offense could not stay on the field. Our offense was horrible in that game.
I can't recall Connor doing that unless you go back to last year's home game against Kentucky. That was his big game.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:40 PM   #246
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by mpilot0705 View Post
When Shaw is in the game....zero....when Dylan was in the game...quite a few actually. That's one of the main reasons DL stayed so high on the depth chart, particularly when Dylan was playing. He is a heck of a downfield blocker. Watching Bruce and Ace blocking for each other on those WR Screens in the Clemson game was a thing of beauty. The thing about these screens is you can keep running them until they come up and play man press coverage or some other tight coverage and then you either hit them deep or with a draw play up the gut after they take all of the men out of the box. Go watch the playcalling from the games Dylan started and we gameplanned for his style and you will see how much smoother our offense seems to run. We also don't seem to wait until the last possible second to snap the ball. We looked a lot more fluid with him in the game.
Does team Dylan not understand the FACT that offenses aren't going to run as good against good D's vs awful D's? The Vandy game last year and the Tenn game this year and the Mizzou game were 3 of the better QB games i have ever saw in my 30 years of watching Gamecock football...but i know the game and watch it with clear eyes enough to see that those were not great D's (even though Vandy's pass D was ranked fairly high)...but still the fact is...Dylan hasn't done what Connor has done against bad D's or good D's (356 yds against Tenn...4 TD's against Vandy in his 2nd start...and pick apart Georgia's D)
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:51 PM   #247
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007 View Post
Does team Dylan not understand the FACT that offenses aren't going to run as good against good D's vs awful D's? The Vandy game last year and the Tenn game this year and the Mizzou game were 3 of the better QB games i have ever saw in my 30 years of watching Gamecock football...but i know the game and watch it with clear eyes enough to see that those were not great D's (even though Vandy's pass D was ranked fairly high)...but still the fact is...Dylan hasn't done what Connor has done against bad D's or good D's (356 yds against Tenn...4 TD's against Vandy in his 2nd start...and pick apart Georgia's D)
You make some good points in the discussion but picked apart Georgia? He threw 10 passes 6 for completions...you could say Lattimore ran over Georgia, 3 100+ yard games against them but I'm not sold on the Connor part.

This is a sincere question by the way not trying to discredit you.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:26 PM   #248
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

This thread is terrible. Both QB's have strengths and weaknesses. Thompson is not the amazing passer that some want to make him out to be. He has an issue with throwing the ball into the dirt on the sideline routes, which Shaw usually throws well. He also threw several balls vs Clemson that should have been picked, but were dropped. Shaw is better at limiting bad throws, which limits his throws in general. When Dylan beat up on ECU and UAB, most rational fans realized that he did that against very bad defenses... but now some of those people want to act like the Clemson game was some type of battle test. Guys, Clemson's defense sucks too. I don't know if anyone else all year hung only 27 points on them. Just saying. I like both of the QB's, but it's not like one is truly clearly better than the other by a large margin. They just have different playing styles which appeal to different types of fans. I'll trust Spurrier to play whoever he believes will give us the best chance... just please no rotating QB's for the hell of it.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:35 PM   #249
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by SimpleGamecock View Post
You make some good points in the discussion but picked apart Georgia? He threw 10 passes 6 for completions...you could say Lattimore ran over Georgia, 3 100+ yard games against them but I'm not sold on the Connor part.

This is a sincere question by the way not trying to discredit you.
You're right..."picked apart" was not the right terminology to use with Georgia...simply bc he didn't have to throw much after going up 28-0...21-0 in the first quarter...maybe I should have said played very well against a good D
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #250
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Nah, you're completely wrong. Apples rule, and oranges suck. I mean, apples are sweeter, and are objectively a better color: red. Besides, oranges wait too long to ripen, they need to make quicker decisions.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:02 PM   #251
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007 View Post
You're right..."picked apart" was not the right terminology to use with Georgia...simply bc he didn't have to throw much after going up 28-0...21-0 in the first quarter...maybe I should have said played very well against a good D
Georgia handed us that game and we paid it forward to Florida.

Please show me a good defense that Connor has handled.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:23 PM   #252
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid View Post
This thread is terrible. Both QB's have strengths and weaknesses. Thompson is not the amazing passer that some want to make him out to be. He has an issue with throwing the ball into the dirt on the sideline routes, which Shaw usually throws well. He also threw several balls vs Clemson that should have been picked, but were dropped. Shaw is better at limiting bad throws, which limits his throws in general. When Dylan beat up on ECU and UAB, most rational fans realized that he did that against very bad defenses... but now some of those people want to act like the Clemson game was some type of battle test. Guys, Clemson's defense sucks too. I don't know if anyone else all year hung only 27 points on them. Just saying. I like both of the QB's, but it's not like one is truly clearly better than the other by a large margin. They just have different playing styles which appeal to different types of fans. I'll trust Spurrier to play whoever he believes will give us the best chance... just please no rotating QB's for the hell of it.
You start out by saying that both have strengths and weaknesses, and then proceed to list Thompson's weaknesses and Shaw's strengths. Somehow, I think you might be biased.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:28 PM   #253
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Ball State also put 27 on clemson.. Completely different game but just thought i'd throw that out there.

BC put up 31
GA Tech 31
NC State 48

Clemson's defense in reality was probably on the same level as UAB or ECU.. Yes I just said that. I'm a fan of both QB's. I really don't care who starts & I think both are capable. Connor Shaw has the experience though which definitely helps in my opinion. He's seen more of what a defense can throw at him. You can only throw so much at a QB in one game though. I think shaw has a better body of work to go off being that he's played more games but if he's not healthy or Spurrier decides Thompson is his guy then so be it.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:09 PM   #254
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007 View Post
(see below...I cut and pasted them for accuracy...and to save space
*Dylan misses a number of WR's also...all QB's do...nobody is saying he is perfect...he has a lot to improve on...but not as much as Dylan..

You are this board's self-appointed stats/facts guru...where are your numbers for this one??? The point here is, CS leaves way more open receivers out there than does Thompson. I know, no one keeps that stat, but I figured that someone with your unrivaled knowledge would keep that one himself...and you probably do...and you know better than to share that number with the rest of us. All we know is with CS it is tuck and slide...with Dylan, wide receivers are suddenly involved in the game.

*i wold rather him miss WR's every now and then than throw to the opposing team

Sssoooo, you'd rather live in a convent than risk sinning in the real world? You'd rather keep your car in the garage than risk it getting nicked by a pebble? I'd rather try the pass down field than go 3 and out.

*LSU was his worse game of the year...that one and the first half of the Florida game.

WhooHooo!!! I knew that if you posted long enough, you'd eventually get some thing right! Way to go blind squirrel.

*The D let LSU rush for over 250 yards on them...so no way that was just his fault for losing to LSU.

Yeah...they sucked that night...it had nothing to do with CS checking out of all of those pass plays (I don't understand why SOS was so furious on the sidelines when he did this either) to run Marcus for a one yard loss or all of the open (again, blame Spurrier for blaming him for this) wide receivers all night. The defense should be rested after CS has checked out of Spurrier's play calls to run up the middle three times in a row...plus the punt and tv timeouts. It's the defense's fault.

*You are absolutely too delerious and nieve if you think that Connors pick vs LSU had anything to do with a corner that came unblocked the first play of the game at Florida.

Naw...I don't think anyone would blame those two things on the common thread of CS and his QBing abilities...that would be ludicrous.

*Also the rest of the mistakes made by the ST's and the other fumbles by other players

I didn't mention this so a little guilt must have been compelling you here.

*Look at the Tennessee game...Justice and Bruce each had 100 yards. If you want to argue that Justice isn't a WR...a TE is pretty much the same thing...just bigger and used for blocking a lot more.

Lololol...except for the fact that the point that I am making is that he doesn't throw to the wide receivers and the only rebuttal that you can offer supports my argument and denounces your own. You just made this point for me...well, you just stated it, the FACTS make this point.

*Throwing the ball to your RB when he is the best player on your team is nothing to frown upon. Our OL hasn't done a great job this year against good teams...so when you have pressure coming...the dump off to the RB is the best option

When George Rogers was winning the Heisman Trophy here, he wasn't our leading receiver. When Harold Green was here, he wasn't our leading receiver. When Duce Staley was here, he wasn't our leading receiver. The same can be said of: OJ Simpson, Adrian Peterson, Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, the list goes on, but I am pretty sure that each one of them were the best players on their respective teams...they just had QBs that would throw the ball down field on passing plays.

*he said "Connor has played beautifully all year"...but let me guess...he don't know what he is talking about?! HAHAHAHA

I have yet to mention or reference what Spurrier thinks about Shaw, I am only posting the FACTS, so you are on your own here trying to postulate what Spurrier does or doesn't think...but, I am pretty sure that you are "guess"-ing wrong.

*offense being near the bottom is what happens when you play in the SEC...there aren't many teams going to be ranked with good O's when you play teams like LSU, Bama, Georgia, Florida...great defenses...that is just common sense!

How does this make any common sense? There are 14 teams in the SEC, therefore, you have a 1 in 14 chance of being on the top and a 1 in 14 chance of being on the bottom. And a 1 in 14 chance of being at any one of the 12 remaining slots between them. We are at the bottom in this category. FACT! (AND CS was the QB on record in those games.)

*And a lot of the offense not producing falls on the OL...would you fault Latti or Connor or anyone else that Latti ran for just 50 yds againts LSU or would you put that on the OL?

I would put that on the OL...but only to a point. FACT is, SOS was calling passing plays and CS was checking out of them to continue running ML up the middle which didn't work all night. So, I put those on him. SOS was close to having a stroke watching him do this and it is part of the reason that he asked if Connor had been hit in the head or something. When the coach calls something that might work and CS checks out of it and into another run up the middle that hasn't worked all night, who's fault is that?

That's right, it is Connor's!

*Again...stats are facts...twist it how you want...the FACT that Connor has played tougher D's and has better comp percentage and QB rating

Tougher D's, comp percentage, and QB ratings do not take into account the multitude of wide open wide receivers that Connor has either not been able to see or has refused to throw the ball to. When he tucks it and runs, none of these stats take notice. That is a FACT.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:26 PM   #255
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
*Dylan misses a number of WR's also...all QB's do...nobody is saying he is perfect...he has a lot to improve on...but not as much as Dylan..

You are this board's self-appointed stats/facts guru...where are your numbers for this one??? The point here is, CS leaves way more open receivers out there than does Thompson. I know, no one keeps that stat, but I figured that someone with your unrivaled knowledge would keep that one himself...and you probably do...and you know better than to share that number with the rest of us. All we know is with CS it is tuck and slide...with Dylan, wide receivers are suddenly involved in the game.

*i wold rather him miss WR's every now and then than throw to the opposing team

Sssoooo, you'd rather live in a convent than risk sinning in the real world? You'd rather keep your car in the garage than risk it getting nicked by a pebble? I'd rather try the pass down field than go 3 and out.

*LSU was his worse game of the year...that one and the first half of the Florida game.

WhooHooo!!! I knew that if you posted long enough, you'd eventually get some thing right! Way to go blind squirrel.

*The D let LSU rush for over 250 yards on them...so no way that was just his fault for losing to LSU.

Yeah...they sucked that night...it had nothing to do with CS checking out of all of those pass plays (I don't understand why SOS was so furious on the sidelines when he did this either) to run Marcus for a one yard loss or all of the open (again, blame Spurrier for blaming him for this) wide receivers all night. The defense should be rested after CS has checked out of Spurrier's play calls to run up the middle three times in a row...plus the punt and tv timeouts. It's the defense's fault.

*You are absolutely too delerious and nieve if you think that Connors pick vs LSU had anything to do with a corner that came unblocked the first play of the game at Florida.

Naw...I don't think anyone would blame those two things on the common thread of CS and his QBing abilities...that would be ludicrous.

*Also the rest of the mistakes made by the ST's and the other fumbles by other players

I didn't mention this so a little guilt must have been compelling you here.

*Look at the Tennessee game...Justice and Bruce each had 100 yards. If you want to argue that Justice isn't a WR...a TE is pretty much the same thing...just bigger and used for blocking a lot more.

Lololol...except for the fact that the point that I am making is that he doesn't throw to the wide receivers and the only rebuttal that you can offer supports my argument and denounces your own. You just made this point for me...well, you just stated it, the FACTS make this point.

*Throwing the ball to your RB when he is the best player on your team is nothing to frown upon. Our OL hasn't done a great job this year against good teams...so when you have pressure coming...the dump off to the RB is the best option

When George Rogers was winning the Heisman Trophy here, he wasn't our leading receiver. When Harold Green was here, he wasn't our leading receiver. When Duce Staley was here, he wasn't our leading receiver. The same can be said of: OJ Simpson, Adrian Peterson, Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, the list goes on, but I am pretty sure that each one of them were the best players on their respective teams...they just had QBs that would throw the ball down field on passing plays.

*he said "Connor has played beautifully all year"...but let me guess...he don't know what he is talking about?! HAHAHAHA

I have yet to mention or reference what Spurrier thinks about Shaw, I am only posting the FACTS, so you are on your own here trying to postulate what Spurrier does or doesn't think...but, I am pretty sure that you are "guess"-ing wrong.

*offense being near the bottom is what happens when you play in the SEC...there aren't many teams going to be ranked with good O's when you play teams like LSU, Bama, Georgia, Florida...great defenses...that is just common sense!

How does this make any common sense? There are 14 teams in the SEC, therefore, you have a 1 in 14 chance of being on the top and a 1 in 14 chance of being on the bottom. And a 1 in 14 chance of being at any one of the 12 remaining slots between them. We are at the bottom in this category. FACT! (AND CS was the QB on record in those games.)

*And a lot of the offense not producing falls on the OL...would you fault Latti or Connor or anyone else that Latti ran for just 50 yds againts LSU or would you put that on the OL?

I would put that on the OL...but only to a point. FACT is, SOS was calling passing plays and CS was checking out of them to continue running ML up the middle which didn't work all night. So, I put those on him. SOS was close to having a stroke watching him do this and it is part of the reason that he asked if Connor had been hit in the head or something. When the coach calls something that might work and CS checks out of it and into another run up the middle that hasn't worked all night, who's fault is that?

That's right, it is Connor's!

*Again...stats are facts...twist it how you want...the FACT that Connor has played tougher D's and has better comp percentage and QB rating

Tougher D's, comp percentage, and QB ratings do not take into account the multitude of wide open wide receivers that Connor has either not been able to see or has refused to throw the ball to. When he tucks it and runs, none of these stats take notice. That is a FACT.
You should do a better job of rebutting his points. All you did was Connor bash.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:34 PM   #256
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
And what grip&rip is still failing to realize is that those so called "facts" that he keeps referring to do not take into account:

*the number of wide open receivers that are left out there when Connor takes off because he either doesn't see them or he won't throw them the ball or he can't throw the ball far enough to get it to them.

*the final minute of the LSU game when CS had two complete passes to Lattimore...over the middle...for negligible gains...costing us valuable time...before throwing the interception.

*how the panic attack that he suffered in the LSU game continued through the next week at Florida

*the missed defensive read on the first play of the Florida game that resulted in his turning the ball over to Florida on the 2 yard line

*that CS's leading receiver for the season is a running back (again, either because he can't see down field or he can't/won't throw the ball down field)

*that our offense with CS leading it ranks near the bottom in average yards per play

and a multitude of other things.

Facts are useful when used correctly. Knowing what they include and what all they do not include is imperative in understanding them...and thus applying them.
"he can't throw the ball far enough to get it to them." this is an opinion, not a fact. sos has been quoted many, many, many times saying connor throws a beautiful deep ball. so it seems you are the one who needs to learn, not only how to use facts, but what a fact actually is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
No need to go all Negative Nellie on us. This is just a discussion that is supposed to be about Dylan playing in the bowl game...that morphed into who is the better QB...then morphed into (by the CS 'supporters') slamming the other QB...
really? you're advising him not to go negative? again, seems a little hypocritical after reading your above quote.
and let's look at your post quote above, and then try to think about the last part of it. so, it's the "CS 'supporters'" who are slamming the other qb? huh... well, we see how flawed your accuracy is.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:36 PM   #257
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

awesome post cocky2001. didn't see it as a "connor bash" (what a joke!) at all. I think he was reserved and right on.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #258
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
*the missed defensive read on the first play of the Florida game that resulted in his turning the ball over to Florida on the 2 yard line
Can you explain what "read" the QB was supposed to make on that play?
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:49 PM   #259
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

I think it's sad we have a team that's 10-2, playing for it's second straight 11 win season, and we have fans that feel the need to tear apart two of the players that got us there.

What the fuck is wrong with you guys?
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:50 PM   #260
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Is there really any doubt that Dylan is a better all around passer than connor?
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