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Old 12-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #321
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
No, what I value is Steve Spurrier's ability to decide who should be our QB. I made that very clear in my first post in this thread. Then I said that with my "uneducated" opinion that "doesn't get to see them in practice, etc" that I thought Connor was better. But I made it very clear that my opinion wasn't worth much and have no problems admitting that.

But I think alot of your arguments are ridiculous since Spurrier is obviously still starting Connor for a reason and it CERTAINLY is not because Spurrier just sticks with the same QB regardless of what happens on the field. Unless you haven't watched the last eight years.

Oh and as far as your points per game argument, my OPINION is that is ridiculous to think that a healthy Connor Shaw lead team couldn't have scored 27 points against one of the worst BCS defenses in the country (Clemson). SC scored 38 against UT and Arkansas. I use those as examples, because their offensive style and defensive stats resemble Clemson's more than the other teams on our schedule. No, they aren't exact matches, but it is certainly reasonable that I would use those as comparisons.

So I also think it is CERTAINLY reasonable for me to think that a Connor lead SC team would have scored 27 points against Clemson. Did you see what Clemson's defenses did against other teams this year?? But yet, you don't think Connor could have put up 27 points on them?
I agree with everything you've said. I think Carolina fans looked for the next big thing so long its just a hard habit to break. I asked on this thread with no reply, if some one believed Thompson should start, yet he wasn't starting, what did it say about Spurrier?

1. He can't see who the best qb really is.
2. He thinks Thompson ids better but he is choosing to play Shaw anyway.

I am also open to any new reasons, if anyone can provide any. I just think those two are fairly ludicrous.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:51 PM   #322
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
Interesting because in the month of October only when SC played UGA, Florida, LSU, and Tenn.. Connor still averaged more yards per pass play then Dylan has for the entire season. (7.99 YPA vs 7.51 YPA)

Many people considered the month of October to be one of the toughest, if not the toughest, one month stretch of football in SC's history..

Yet, somehow Connor managed to average more yards every time he touched it in that stretch than Dylan has all season.
Am I the only one who sees a problem with this logic? What difference does it make that he got more yardage when we lost two of those games? We have to win the game for the yardage to matter, don't we?

As for why Thompson didn't win the starting position before Connor did, Thompson was redshirted his freshman year, and Connor wasn't. Connor came in as a better quarterback (3 stars) than Thompson did (2 stars), so Connor was the backup behind Garcia. However, Thompson has shown amazing improvement in these two seasons. The coaches have done a wonderful job with him, he has taken their instruction, and he has worked his butt off. If they truly didn't think he was good enough to play, they would tell him to transfer to a place where he could play. They have done that with other players. Obviously, they want to keep him if they're willing to give him a scholarship.

I don't know how it will turn out in the spring, but I think they will have to battle it out. I'm seeing a difference in Thompson's interviews now. He no longer talks about being a backup. He says that we'll be in good hands whether it's Connor or him. That shows much more confidence in his position on the team than he has ever shown before. Connor's last interview was also very different from any he has done before. He praised Thompson. They are both team players, and I like it.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:53 PM   #323
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
Haha, I love how you first start out trying to argue my stats by saying that Connor's were against lesser opponents.. Then when I point out that Connor's stats are better than Dylan's even when you look at our toughest competition, then all of a sudden you don't care about stats.

Let me go back to my original post in this thread though because I have gone off on a tangent.. So I want to go back to the very first point I made.

As long as Spurrier says Connor is the better QB, then Connor is the better QB. When Spurrier says Dylan is the better QB, then I will believe Dylan is the better QB.

As much as you obviously have strong opinion on the matter, I hope you can understand why I would take Spurrier's opinion over yours? I did one of those Benjamin Franklin pro con lists just now to see whose opinion I should trust more. Spurrier had a ton or pros on his side... You? I couldn't really think of many.
As long as you are dropping the argument that he needs to start because he 1 more yard per play, I'm done with you. That argument is lame. Who averages more points per game is much more relevant.

I'm glad you care as much about my opinion as I care of yours.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:56 PM   #324
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by pantera17 View Post
This will probably all be over the bowl game. I feel like one will out play the other. Either way. And if they don't then we will find out in the spring.

It's really what you prefer. A game manager or a gunslinger. That's fits the two perfectly.
VERY GOOD POINT!!! :-)

I do, however, think that they yards per attempt stat that I have been posting in this thread is an important. Yes, I know stats can be very misleading, etc. But I think that stat is important for one reason. I hear so many people say that Connor's completion percentage is only high because he only throws short passes and that he never throws it downfield, etc. On the other hand, Dylan is a gunslinger like you said that "picks up yards in chunks."

So I do think it is interesting to see that Connor gains more yards per pass attempt than Dylan, even when you look at only Connor's toughest competition.

Whether they will admit it or not, I bet that stat is surprising to a lot of fans.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:56 PM   #325
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
I agree with everything you've said. I think Carolina fans looked for the next big thing so long its just a hard habit to break. I asked on this thread with no reply, if some one believed Thompson should start, yet he wasn't starting, what did it say about Spurrier?

1. He can't see who the best qb really is.
2. He thinks Thompson ids better but he is choosing to play Shaw anyway.

I am also open to any new reasons, if anyone can provide any. I just think those two are fairly ludicrous.
It makes for fun discussion? How boring would it be if we all just talked about well nothing...

Hi, coach is doing well. We won/lost today. I'm sure there is nothing to talk about because, well, coach is probably doing everything right. Good day.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:59 PM   #326
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by me4USC View Post
Am I the only one who sees a problem with this logic? What difference does it make that he got more yardage when we lost two of those games? We have to win the game for the yardage to matter, don't we?

As for why Thompson didn't win the starting position before Connor did, Thompson was redshirted his freshman year, and Connor wasn't. Connor came in as a better quarterback (3 stars) than Thompson did (2 stars), so Connor was the backup behind Garcia. However, Thompson has shown amazing improvement in these two seasons. The coaches have done a wonderful job with him, he has taken their instruction, and he has worked his butt off. If they truly didn't think he was good enough to play, they would tell him to transfer to a place where he could play. They have done that with other players. Obviously, they want to keep him if they're willing to give him a scholarship.

I don't know how it will turn out in the spring, but I think they will have to battle it out. I'm seeing a difference in Thompson's interviews now. He no longer talks about being a backup. He says that we'll be in good hands whether it's Connor or him. That shows much more confidence in his position on the team than he has ever shown before. Connor's last interview was also very different from any he has done before. He praised Thompson. They are both team players, and I like it.
You are correct, there is a problem in the logic. I only used it because the one poster said that Connor's YPA stats were ONLY because Dylan had played better competition. The only reason I posted that stat.

Again, to be very clear, to me.. Connor is the better QB because as of RIGHT NOW, Spurrier is starting him which means Spurrier thinks he is the better QB.

When that changes, my perception on who is the better QB will change.

Simple enough?
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:03 AM   #327
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by pantera17 View Post
You also seem to forget that Connor hasn't really done well aganst bad Ds either.

Connor has only had four games where he has played the QB position right. How it's meant to be played. How it should be played.

Other than that he has been below average to average. At best.

Many people forget how bad our offense was in 2011 with Connor at QB because of how the team finished the year.

This year he has regressed in my book. Even before he got hurt at vandy he just didn't look the same as he did at the end of 2011.
Only 4 games huh? I can think of a lot more than that. Just curious...what games are you referring to...and how many games do u think Dylan has "played the QB position right?"
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:11 AM   #328
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by COCKYTALKIN View Post
Again, stats that are meaningless. Case in point. The team you reference sucked.

I'll give you one guess as to why they had a top 25 pass defense.

Hint: It had nothing to do with skill.
I didn't realize how many of our fans didnt know how to comprehend...did I say they were a good team or good pass D?

I know they didnt play many good passing teams...that is part of why they were ranked high...but 2 of the SECs best QBs...Murray & Bray didn't do what Connor did by himself...they combined for about the same yards as Connor...& threw for 2 TDs & 3 ints...any excuses for those stats?
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:11 AM   #329
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by COCKYTALKIN View Post
As long as you are dropping the argument that he needs to start because he 1 more yard per play, I'm done with you. That argument is lame. Who averages more points per game is much more relevant.

I'm glad you care as much about my opinion as I care of yours.
Ok, so lets talk about this for a minute. Just want your honest opinion since you are talking about points per game.

Dylan has started two games. So against UAB the team scored 49 points. But the week before against ECU, SC scored 48 points. Neither of those teams are BCS teams.

So then we look to Clemson.. Let me tell you, I was ECSTATIC with Dylan's performance because SC won and I absolutely HATE Clemson. So I can promise you, I was as happy with Dylan's performance as anyone. He played well and he deserves some playing time in the bowl game, which he is getting.

But you keep talking about this points per game thing, so I have to ask you.... You are really going to try and tell me that a SC team lead by a healthy Connor Shaw wouldn't have scored 27 points on Clemson? Clemson has one of the worst defenses in all of BCS football. You don't need stats to know that is a fact. Clemson gave up more than 27 points to Boston College for crying out loud.

Clemson also runs their offense very fast which gives the other team more offensive possessions. SC had 14 possessions against Clemson which is about four more per game than average. That is four more chances to score for your offense.

So since you keep mentioning the points per game, you really don't think a healthy Connor Shaw led team could have scored 27 on Clemson? SC scored 21 in the real Death Valley at night, but you don't think SC could have mustered up six more points against one of the worst defenses in all of college football?

Just interested in your opinion.

Last edited by cofcgamecock9; 12-29-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:14 AM   #330
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by COCKYTALKIN View Post
Overall, Connor has played less talented teams.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:19 AM   #331
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
You are correct, there is a problem in the logic. I only used it because the one poster said that Connor's YPA stats were ONLY because Dylan had played better competition. The only reason I posted that stat.

Again, to be very clear, to me.. Connor is the better QB because as of RIGHT NOW, Spurrier is starting him which means Spurrier thinks he is the better QB.

When that changes, my perception on who is the better QB will change.

Simple enough?
Yes. You used one four-syllable word and three three-syllable words (including Spurrier). I think I can handle that, though your condescension is a little tougher to understand.

I don't think it matters who starts the bowl game. Spurrier has consistently mentioned both quarterbacks since Clemson, and he hasn't spoken of Thompson as being the backup since that time either. Connor has been the starter all season, and by virtue of his record deserves the final start of the season. If the bowl game doesn't show clearly which qb should start in 2013, the spring will.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:26 AM   #332
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by COCKYTALKIN View Post
As stated numerous times before, I love them both (no homo)... but only one is undefeated.

BLAM!


Take the homer goggles off buddy...you are clearly either a tater lurker or a delirious & blind Dylan homer. Did u not just tell me earlier that there are "10 other players on the field at all times" so how can you insinuate one is better bc they are undefeated when it takes more than "10 players" to win & more than "10 players" to lose...stats are the best way to compare individual players
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:35 AM   #333
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by me4USC View Post

I don't think it matters who starts the bowl game. Spurrier has consistently mentioned both quarterbacks since Clemson, and he hasn't spoken of Thompson as being the backup since that time either. Connor has been the starter all season, and by virtue of his record deserves the final start of the season. If the bowl game doesn't show clearly which qb should start in 2013, the spring will.
Guess we will see next week. My guess is that Connor will play most of the snaps and Connor will CLEARLY be the QB that Spurrier thinks gives us the best chance to win the bowl game based on the amount of playing time each receives.

I guess we will see if I am wrong. Like I said, whoever Spurrier thinks should play is who I think should play. Considering SC 21-4 in its last 25 games, I would say Spurrier gets it right a lot more than he gets it wrong.

But my guess is that Connor will get significantly more playing time than Dylan, which does tell you which QB Spurrier believes gives SC the better chance to win the game.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:47 AM   #334
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
Guess we will see next week. My guess is that Connor will play most of the snaps and Connor will CLEARLY be the QB that Spurrier thinks gives us the best chance to win the bowl game based on the amount of playing time each receives.

I guess we will see if I am wrong. Like I said, whoever Spurrier thinks should play is who I think should play. Considering SC 21-4 in its last 25 games, I would say Spurrier gets it right a lot more than he gets it wrong.

But my guess is that Connor will get significantly more playing time than Dylan, which does tell you which QB Spurrier believes gives SC the better chance to win the game.
You may be right. BTW, I haven't disagreed with Spurrier. I'm just listening very closely to what he says.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:56 AM   #335
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by 2four2Gamecock View Post
You said he missed a read that the CB was blitzing. I was pointing out you are totally incorrect and that we invited the blitz on that play.

I stand by my comments that he missed seeing this guy until he was on top of him. If I go by what you are saying here, then we intentionally induced this blitz...knew that it was coming and that we were wanting it to come...and that Connor knowing this, didn't have the time to react or the good sense to throw the ball away. That is far more damning to Connor than my scenario. In the Clemson game, they came with a safety blitz from the blind side that got to Dylan. Dylan manages to throw the ball away. Matt Millen the color commentator for the game points out how good and how strong of a throw that was not to take the loss. (Didn't matter in the end b/c of a penalty against CU, but for comparison that doesn't matter...he got rid of the ball in real time) and now you want me to believe that we design a play to cause or induce this CB to blitz...ie Connor knows it's coming and sees it coming... and not only can he not get rid of the ball when things go sideways knowing all of this but he hands it over to them on the two yard line? Your argument is much more damning of his play than mine is.

Now you want to change your position and say since the RB didn't execute, Connor should have thrown the ball away.


I haven't 'changed my position' or mentioned the RB or his execution on this play...you are in fantasy land with this comment...but yes, he should have thrown the ball away.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:00 AM   #336
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
VERY GOOD POINT!!! :-)

I do, however, think that they yards per attempt stat that I have been posting in this thread is an important. Yes, I know stats can be very misleading, etc. But I think that stat is important for one reason. I hear so many people say that Connor's completion percentage is only high because he only throws short passes and that he never throws it downfield, etc. On the other hand, Dylan is a gunslinger like you said that "picks up yards in chunks."

So I do think it is interesting to see that Connor gains more yards per pass attempt than Dylan, even when you look at only Connor's toughest competition.

Whether they will admit it or not, I bet that stat is surprising to a lot of fans.
That stat is actually very surprising. I'm not sure why it seems DT throws downfield more.

I feel like shaw is capable of running Spurrier's fun n gun. But his running instincts take over.

You don't have to have a Marino arm (I like big arms) but to be great in Spurrier's offense you do not need it. You just have to throw the ball to the spot. Either of the two I feel can get it done. Shaw just has to sling it.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:02 AM   #337
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
Guess we will see next week. My guess is that Connor will play most of the snaps and Connor will CLEARLY be the QB that Spurrier thinks gives us the best chance to win the bowl game based on the amount of playing time each receives.

I guess we will see if I am wrong. Like I said, whoever Spurrier thinks should play is who I think should play. Considering SC 21-4 in its last 25 games, I would say Spurrier gets it right a lot more than he gets it wrong.

But my guess is that Connor will get significantly more playing time than Dylan, which does tell you which QB Spurrier believes gives SC the better chance to win the game.
I agree. I don't think DT will play much. And even tho I do like DT and his gunslinging attitude. I feel better with shaw. Even tho he agervates me. He still wins. And that's most important.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:12 AM   #338
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by pantera17 View Post
I agree. I don't think DT will play much. And even tho I do like DT and his gunslinging attitude. I feel better with shaw. Even tho he agervates me. He still wins. And that's most important.
Ah..I agree with everything in this post. Trust me, Connor has frustrated me at times when he holds on to it and doesn't seem to want to "let it go." But I still feel like Spurrier believes he gives us the best chance to win when he is healthy.

There are two sides to every coin. We both get frustrated sometimes when Connor doesn't let it go, but the flip side is that we would be frustrated as hell if he let it go and it ended up in the other team's hands.

I thought it was funny at one point this year when SC fans (myself included) were frustrated with Connor for not "slinging it around" enough while, the exact same week, Derek Dooley was telling the media that Tyler Bray, the ultimate gunslinger, wasn't going to keep starting if he kept being so "loose" with the ball. Tennessee fans were asking for a QB that could "just manage the game."

Spurrier is a smart man. He knows who gives us the best chance to win the game. It may not always happen as planned, but he knows who gives us the best chance.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:52 AM   #339
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
Considering the following:

1. Connor's completion percentage is 15% higher than Dylans.
2. While some of you like to say the completion percentage is only higher because Connor throws shorter passes, the stats say differently. Connor's YPA is almost a yard per play higher than Dylans. So either Connor doesn't only just throw the short passes like you think or the WRs run better with the ball after passes thrown from Connor. Either way, on passes (not runs), when Connor throws the ball we average almost a yard more per play than when Dylan throws it.
3. Spurrier has stated on many occasions that Connor is an "excellent passer" and continually starts Connor over Dylan. Spurrier sees them both in every practice.

So, yes, I would say there is most definitely doubt that Dylan is the better all around passer.


Add to that the run threat he gives us with the zone read and the experience he's had playing in big games.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:36 AM   #340
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by COCKYTALKIN View Post
As stated numerous times before, I love them both (no homo)... but only one is undefeated.

BLAM!
Why do you feel the need to let us know you arent homosexual? did you really think we thought you were gay? why the insecurity?
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