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Old 12-29-2012, 04:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by Don Giovanni View Post
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I seriously cannot make myself think of NASCAR as a sport. I would consider cheerleading (competitive) as a legitimate sport 1,000,000 times before just driving a car fast.
Quote:
"Sport is a physical activity involving large muscle groups, requiring strategic methods, physical training and mental preparation and whose outcome is determined, within a rules framework, by skill, not chance. Sport occurs in an organized, structured and competitive environment where a winner is declared."
NASCAR fits every aspect of the definition of a sport. To those who say anything about NASCAR do you even understand the sport? There are no judges there is an outright winner whoever finishes first, there is no way to controversy because you have a margin of victory, there is no way to have a dispute of who won, or how they won. Pageants like gymnastics, figure skating, diving, and cheerleading do not have standards they are trivial standards set by people.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5...rt-as-football
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:25 PM   #22
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

If Dabo spoke on behalf of competitive cheerleading they would win the judgement. I mean really, the guy has people believing Clemson is a good football team.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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True...not a sport. Do you have to be athletic to be good at competitive cheering? Umm...duh. That's a dumb question. They are strong and hone twitch muscles as well as flexibility and plyometrics.

The problem with the respect or lack thereof comes when you have to hire someone to pick the team or get a panel of judges not affiliated with the school because of jealousy issues. Then, you always have some nut mother like Wanda Holloway or the reputation of the Fab Five from Texas. Many girls and mothers see being on the cheerleadering squad as a social status and a popularity rise in school. Doesn't mean that others don't see their sport as such, but the OP is about cheerleading.
Agreed, and that's one of the things I hated about coaching school cheer. What other sport in high school has to bring in outsiders to decide who makes the team? Baseball, football, track, and all other sports the coaches assessed everyone and decided who makes it and who doesn't. Cheer gets that dramatic stereotype from movies like you mentioned and now that Cheer Perfection show that airs on TLC now. It's basically Toddlers and Tiaras for cheer. And makes me look stupid to my friends who think THAT is what I dedicated so much time to. It's not realistic at all.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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NASCAR fits every aspect of the definition of a sport. To those who say anything about NASCAR do you even understand the sport? There are no judges there is an outright winner whoever finishes first, there is no way to controversy because you have a margin of victory, there is no way to have a dispute of who won, or how they won. Pageants like gymnastics, figure skating, diving, and cheerleading do not have standards they are trivial standards set by people.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5...rt-as-football
This^^

Don't consider it a sport? Ok, here's a 700+ hp car going 175+mph. You're pulling g-forces equivalent to a hellacious roller coaster trying to hold the steering wheel in place on a 2 ton car through a turn at 180. You're wearing a poorly-ventilated firesuit, a helmet, gloves, and strapped in about 10 places to a racing seat. You're in a very, very hot car for over 3 hours, and you've gotta keep your energy up. One itty bitty mental f*ck up, and you're in the wall, spinning around, collecting other cars, and making scrap metal at well over 100mph.

You want strategy? Ok, 25 laps left, your tires are rather worn, you're about halfway on gas, leading by 3 seconds, and there's no caution in sight. What do you do? Come in for a splash and go, risking blowing a tire in a few laps just to be able to finish? Come in for 2 tires, hoping replacing the 2 on the driver's side will help you grip better, while losing some position? Replace all 4, hoping you beat the others to the punch and that you can stay out if/when the next caution comes out?

Or... how about it's a 6pm race, and about halfway through, as the sun drops, that track's gonna cool down. How do you intend on setting it up the car, where will you run on the track, and how much drafting will you be doing?
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by ktguen View Post
Agreed, and that's one of the things I hated about coaching school cheer. What other sport in high school has to bring in outsiders to decide who makes the team? Baseball, football, track, and all other sports the coaches assessed everyone and decided who makes it and who doesn't. Cheer gets that dramatic stereotype from movies like you mentioned and now that Cheer Perfection show that airs on TLC now. It's basically Toddlers and Tiaras for cheer. And makes me look stupid to my friends who think THAT is what I dedicated so much time to. It's not realistic at all.

They don't bring in people to pick the teams by us. I have bigger issue with someone coming in to create a routine for them. I couldn't imagine as a football coach having someone come in every year and create my offensive and defensive playbook for me. Seems like that should be is the job of a cheer coach.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

Lets not forget the physicality of that pit crew has to do in sub 15 seconds. Not the sissy Indy car pit stop but a NASCAR pit stop.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

If Cheerleading isn't a sport then neither are gymnastics, diving, or figure skating and last time I checked all that was in the olympics.

Irritates me when people put down cheerleaders/cheerleading.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Giovanni View Post
Non
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I seriously cannot make myself think of NASCAR as a sport. I would consider cheerleading (competitive) as a legitimate sport 1,000,000 times before just driving a car fast.
Yet in your trivial definition of NASCAR you called it a sport.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
They don't bring in people to pick the teams by us. I have bigger issue with someone coming in to create a routine for them. I couldn't imagine as a football coach having someone come in every year and create my offensive and defensive playbook for me. Seems like that should be is the job of a cheer coach.
And some of them do. I coach and did their routine last year. But when it comes to the highest level of allstar cheer most coaches don't have the capacity or vision to choreograph a routine that intricate. If you decide to do it on your own and it's not up to the level of those other teams who do bring in people your team will suffer. It's just how things are done. And depends on your budget too. Ours was pretty small so we were forced to choreograph in house. A lot of school teams also train with an allstar gym who throw in choreography for your team along with weekly training.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:40 PM   #30
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by ktguen View Post
And some of them do. I coach and did their routine last year. But when it comes to the highest level of allstar cheer most coaches don't have the capacity or vision to choreograph a routine that intricate. If you decide to do it on your own and it's not up to the level of those other teams who do bring in people your team will suffer. It's just how things are done. And depends on your budget too. Ours was pretty small so we were forced to choreograph in house. A lot of school teams also train with an allstar gym who throw in choreography for your team along with weekly training.
That doesn't help with any argument that it is a sport or for trying to get more respect for it as a sport when the coaches can't even coach but need someone to come in and create a routine. That's like the HBC coming to me and asking me to create a gameplan for the Outback Bow because he doesn't have the vision to create a gameplanl.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:06 PM   #31
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by Spurrier_Superior_One View Post
That doesn't help with any argument that it is a sport or for trying to get more respect for it as a sport when the coaches can't even coach but need someone to come in and create a routine. That's like the HBC coming to me and asking me to create a gameplan for the Outback Bow because he doesn't have the vision to create a gameplanl.
Not really the same thing. I get what you're saying but a cheerleading routine is an entirely different animal than a football game plan.

And who said just because a coach doesn't choreograph that they don't coach? A choreographer may give you a skeleton of a routine and you go from there. Meaning the coach has to decide who goes where, who stunts with who, teach the team how to build and hit the stunts, figure out why they aren't hitting and fix it, clean up transitions between skill to skill in the routine and make them seamless, spot and help the team learn tumbling skills/passes, constantly tweak the routine every practice, make changes to score higher after every competition and replace/rearrange people as injuries come up. So don't think the coach just lets the choreographer go and kicks up their feet.

One thing that's pretty interesting about cheer is how NEEDED everyone is. In football if your starting player goes out you plug in your second string. In soccer if your goalie is sick you and throw in your second one. Missing just one person due to injury/illness or absence from practice means the entire routine can't go. This is why injuries are so hard to deal with. You have to find someone who can cover all that person's spots and perform all the individual skills that they did. I struggled with the dedication of some of my girls last year and had to get after some moms who would keep their daughter home from practice for punishment or because they had a lot of homework. While I understand the need for discipline, you hurt the entire team when you aren't there. That one persons stunt group can't practice all day and the entire pyramid can't build unless someone filled in. One of the more frustrating thing about cheer.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by Spurrier_Superior_One View Post
That doesn't help with any argument that it is a sport or for trying to get more respect for it as a sport when the coaches can't even coach but need someone to come in and create a routine. That's like the HBC coming to me and asking me to create a gameplan for the Outback Bow because he doesn't have the vision to create a gameplanl.
Wait a xe one...isn't that what dabo did? Chad Morris???
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by ktguen View Post
Not really the same thing. I get what you're saying but a cheerleading routine is an entirely different animal than a football game plan.

And who said just because a coach doesn't choreograph that they don't coach? A choreographer may give you a skeleton of a routine and you go from there. Meaning the coach has to decide who goes where, who stunts with who, teach the team how to build and hit the stunts, figure out why they aren't hitting and fix it, clean up transitions between skill to skill in the routine and make them seamless, spot and help the team learn tumbling skills/passes, constantly tweak the routine every practice, make changes to score higher after every competition and replace/rearrange people as injuries come up. So don't think the coach just lets the choreographer go and kicks up their feet.

One thing that's pretty interesting about cheer is how NEEDED everyone is. In football if your starting player goes out you plug in your second string. In soccer if your goalie is sick you and throw in your second one. Missing just one person due to injury/illness or absence from practice means the entire routine can't go. This is why injuries are so hard to deal with. You have to find someone who can cover all that person's spots and perform all the individual skills that they did. I struggled with the dedication of some of my girls last year and had to get after some moms who would keep their daughter home from practice for punishment or because they had a lot of homework. While I understand the need for discipline, you hurt the entire team when you aren't there. That one persons stunt group can't practice all day and the entire pyramid can't build unless someone filled in. One of the more frustrating thing about cheer.
Many squads have alternates. I have coached soccer for years and I can tell you that sticking in a sub doesn't solve any problem other than filling a spot at times. It has taken me three years to get my current squad where I need them and that is 18 months of practices and games.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

admit it ktguen, you're just a tracer

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Old 12-29-2012, 10:24 PM   #35
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

Do you play any sports?

Yes, I drive to and from work every day.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:32 PM   #36
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Yet in your trivial definition of NASCAR you called it a sport.
Only because it is accepted by society as such.

Also, SSO, gymnastics has judges, so is that not a sport? Competitive cheerleaders are athletes, NASCAR drivers are not. Disagree? I'll put any of the top competitive cheerleaders against any NASCAR driver you want in a head-to-head contest of actual physical fitness. I'd bet the house on the cheerleader to win any day of the week.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:37 PM   #37
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Do you play any sports?

Yes, I drive to and from work every day.
But the fact the cars have, "700 hp," makes the difference apparently. Well guess what...my nephew who is 18 years old has a truck that has about that much hp, but he's not suddenly an athlete or competing in a sport because he drives. Oh! He also regularly drag races, so does that mean he's as much of an "athlete" as NASCAR drivers? Points to you sir.

FWIW, I will occasionally watch the last few laps of a NASCAR race, but I still don't consider it a sport or the drivers athletes. The pit crew performs more athletic feats than the drivers.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:55 PM   #38
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Not really the same thing. I get what you're saying but a cheerleading routine is an entirely different animal than a football game plan.

And who said just because a coach doesn't choreograph that they don't coach? A choreographer may give you a skeleton of a routine and you go from there. Meaning the coach has to decide who goes where, who stunts with who, teach the team how to build and hit the stunts, figure out why they aren't hitting and fix it, clean up transitions between skill to skill in the routine and make them seamless, spot and help the team learn tumbling skills/passes, constantly tweak the routine every practice, make changes to score higher after every competition and replace/rearrange people as injuries come up. So don't think the coach just lets the choreographer go and kicks up their feet.

One thing that's pretty interesting about cheer is how NEEDED everyone is. In football if your starting player goes out you plug in your second string. In soccer if your goalie is sick you and throw in your second one. Missing just one person due to injury/illness or absence from practice means the entire routine can't go. This is why injuries are so hard to deal with. You have to find someone who can cover all that person's spots and perform all the individual skills that they did. I struggled with the dedication of some of my girls last year and had to get after some moms who would keep their daughter home from practice for punishment or because they had a lot of homework. While I understand the need for discipline, you hurt the entire team when you aren't there. That one persons stunt group can't practice all day and the entire pyramid can't build unless someone filled in. One of the more frustrating thing about cheer.
All the cheer teams in Virginia have alternates for when a girl can't go. So it is the same as any other team subbing players. Trying subbing the back up QB on every team in and see how well the offense works, usually.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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If Cheerleading isn't a sport then neither are gymnastics, diving, or figure skating and last time I checked all that was in the olympics.

Irritates me when people put down cheerleaders/cheerleading.
I'd agree, all those aren't sports either. Any judge decided ever isn't a sport. Dancing isn't a sport either. The Olympics have many events I'd not consider a sport.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:04 PM   #40
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Default Re: Competitive Cheerleading is not a Sport

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
All the cheer teams in Virginia have alternates for when a girl can't go. So it is the same as any other team subbing players. Trying subbing the back up QB on every team in and see how well the offense works, usually.
Of course he won't be at the same level as the starting player, much like an alternate for a routine wouldn't be as good without the original person in there. My point was that the alternates could be used for any part of a routine. Flying, basing, backspotting, or throwing any combination of tumbling that they may or may not have. You can have set alternates but like you do in football but in football in the 2nd string QB comes in he knows he will be quarterbacking. If you pull up an alternate into a routine there's really no telling what they will be doing and therefore takes them a little more time to get acclimated. In football you also practice with your second strings. You don't too often practice with a cheer alternate.

I'm by no means saying that it's more difficult than football. I was just kind of making a comparison.
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