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Old 12-30-2012, 09:31 AM   #381
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Again as many have pointed out it is a style preference of a Dual Threat vs Pocket Passer. That you cannot argue with.
We can express our preference all we want, Spurrier has chosen to start the dual threat because he believes it gives us the best chance to win.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:20 AM   #382
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
Well perhaps that is because those are the games that he has been allowed to start. He couldn't have done worse against Florida or LSU than CS did and having to mop up CS's mess against Florida doesn't count as a start.

again all you are doing is showing your biased opinion...you make it sound like Connor did that bad against these teams when he actually put up just as good numbers if not better as the heisman winner against these teams. And make up any excuse u want...Connor played half against Fla & Dylan played the other half...one threw a pic against the 2nd string D...one didnt against the first string

I would think that he would start the incumbent. You don't usually lose your starting position because of injury. But the FACT that Spurrier has been adamant all along that both QB's would play in the bowl game and that today he stated he really didn't know which QB would play the bulk of the game would tell me that you are much more convinced by CS than Spurrier seems to be.


Here's an interesting little fact...Connor Shaw has lost 3 games as a starter...Dylan Thompson is undefeated as a starter.

alex smith did to kapernick. Again...make any excuse u want...SOS is gonna start the best players...that's partially how he got to be one of the best coaches of all time. And the FACT that SOS has stated this season that Connor IS THE BETTER QB would tell me that you are much more convinced by Dylan than Spurrier seems to be.


Here's an interesting fact...TEAMS WIN AND LOSE GAMES...NOT QB's. Why not try to compare INDIVIDUAL FACTS....you know...such as stats...which is used to compare players...OH...bc that wouldn't help your biased argument! Hahahaha
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:23 AM   #383
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

For my 2 cents I prefer DT as our QB, but want CS to start because if anyone deserves to start this Bowl Game it is CS. He's earned the respect of everyone for his gallant play all season. While reading this extra long thread over the last 10 days or so, something I haven't seen anyone address is my hunch that Robinson is more than likely going to start for Michigan and will probably be healed enough or shot up enough to be able to throw well enough to be a Dual threat. I believe if that does happen, Mich. will try running straight at Clowney, at least early in the game. They have imposing size if not skill on the offensive line, so I see that as a possibility. If Robinson can throw, it will make the game a tougher test for us. Just think of this, Mich. has practiced against a good Dual threat QB all year in Robinson, and so have we in Shaw. As both starters are recovering from injury neither will be at their best, from a rust standpoint. Our front 4 is better than theirs, which will make the rest of our D better than theirs. Our receiving core is better than theirs ESPECIALLY if our TE's are effectively blended into our attack. I think Mich. will be better able to defend against Shaw than Thompson because of his slower reads and delivery and the fact that until he was injured their !st defense practiced against Shaw's style of play in Robinson. If it comes down to the 2 #2 QB's I'll take Ours over theirs All the Way !!! Hope whoever starts for us has a great game, but something tells me that DT will be the Positive X factor For a Gamecock Victory. GOOO COCKS!!!
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:37 AM   #384
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by SimpleGamecock View Post
I think the point that they are making is we have seen more than just a few games from Connor and we have seen 19 starts and to say he runs the "fun n gun" isn't entirely accurate just because of a few games against horrible defenses. In fact it is pretty well documented that Spurrier runs the Zone Read to play to Connors strengths and he points to Elliot in helping implement it. Dylan does not have the athleticism Connor has and plays more like a traditional QB. I keep hearing the Florida game brought up and it should be noted that Dylan and Connor both had 20 pass attempts and Connor had 9 completions vs. Dylan's 8, while Dylan had more yards than Connor.To discredit Dylan against Florida is not fair in the sense that Florida knew we needed to pass the rest of the game and brought pressure. Florida may have used 2nd or 3rd strings late in the game but I would guarantee you the way Florida recruits those 2nd or 3rd strings would start on either of the teams you mentioned. To put all the blame on Connor is not fair either because let's face we just laid an egg that game.

Again as many have pointed out it is a style preference of a Dual Threat vs Pocket Passer. That you cannot argue with.
I see your point and I see theirs...I wasn't saying Connor is more of a pocket passer (or fun n gun) than Dylan...I was merely just proving that Connor when needed can open it up and throw it better than Dylan. And if u are gonna say it isn't entirely accurate since he played against bad defenses...shouldn't the same be stated about Dylan...him being a "gunslinger" more than Connor even though he has faced bad D's? As for the Florida game...don't forget to note that Dylan threw a pic...Connor didnt. But I see your point on them knowing he was gonna pass...but when both of them played against the SAME FIRST TEAM D in the spring game...and the SAME FIRST TEAM D in scrimmages and practices...and the D knew they were gonna pass...Connor still played better and PROVED he was the better QB.

I understand its a style preference...but the argument is who is the better QB and passer...and the stats you can't argue with...they PROVE Connor throws it better and more accurate
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:46 AM   #385
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted hamlin View Post
For my 2 cents I prefer DT as our QB, but want CS to start because if anyone deserves to start this Bowl Game it is CS. He's earned the respect of everyone for his gallant play all season. While reading this extra long thread over the last 10 days or so, something I haven't seen anyone address is my hunch that Robinson is more than likely going to start for Michigan and will probably be healed enough or shot up enough to be able to throw well enough to be a Dual threat. I believe if that does happen, Mich. will try running straight at Clowney, at least early in the game. They have imposing size if not skill on the offensive line, so I see that as a possibility. If Robinson can throw, it will make the game a tougher test for us. Just think of this, Mich. has practiced against a good Dual threat QB all year in Robinson, and so have we in Shaw. As both starters are recovering from injury neither will be at their best, from a rust standpoint. Our front 4 is better than theirs, which will make the rest of our D better than theirs. Our receiving core is better than theirs ESPECIALLY if our TE's are effectively blended into our attack. I think Mich. will be better able to defend against Shaw than Thompson because of his slower reads and delivery and the fact that until he was injured their !st defense practiced against Shaw's style of play in Robinson. If it comes down to the 2 #2 QB's I'll take Ours over theirs All the Way !!! Hope whoever starts for us has a great game, but something tells me that DT will be the Positive X factor For a Gamecock Victory. GOOO COCKS!!!
Understand what you are trying to say but u are kind of contradicting yourself some. You say that having a QB that can run and throw makes it a tougher game for us...but yet say that a pocket passer would give us a better chance at winning. And again...I don't see AT ALL where Connor has slower reads or a slower delivery...is he more careful & makes sure the WR is there before throwing it but I wouldn't call that slower reads. We can not afford TO's I this game or any big game to win...and Connor has proven to give us the better chance for less ints & more TDs ratio & has PROVEN to win a bowl game
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:17 AM   #386
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

There is an awful lot of mention of the fun-n-gun but Spurrier has been recruiting dual threat QBs for a few years now moving away from that style of offense. For whatever reason Spurrier decided he wanted to implement this hybrid offense long before Shaw arrived at SC so to say he changed his philosophy for Shaw is incorrect.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:19 AM   #387
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Me gusta Connor Shaw. Me gusta de honderos de pistola. Connor Shaw no es deflector de pistola.

Su mente estŠ quemado.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:04 PM   #388
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007 View Post
I see your point and I see theirs...I wasn't saying Connor is more of a pocket passer (or fun n gun) than Dylan...I was merely just proving that Connor when needed can open it up and throw it better than Dylan. And if u are gonna say it isn't entirely accurate since he played against bad defenses...shouldn't the same be stated about Dylan...him being a "gunslinger" more than Connor even though he has faced bad D's? As for the Florida game...don't forget to note that Dylan threw a pic...Connor didnt. But I see your point on them knowing he was gonna pass...but when both of them played against the SAME FIRST TEAM D in the spring game...and the SAME FIRST TEAM D in scrimmages and practices...and the D knew they were gonna pass...Connor still played better and PROVED he was the better QB.

I understand its a style preference...but the argument is who is the better QB and passer...and the stats you can't argue with...they PROVE Connor throws it better and more accurate
I agree Dylan's stats are against less than quality defenses and I would like to see him go against a top flight defense to see how he would fare. As for the pick against Florida I don't consider a big deal. I think we look at interceptions as the worst thing a QB can do but it is part of the game. Look we were down huge and Dylan was asked to come in an try to make things happen you can't play conservative when you are down like that and need to try to force some things. I mean look at this way Bret Favre is the all time leading passer and he has also thrown the most picks of all time. When we have a defense that is as good as ours we can play a more conservative offense. A lot of the arguements I have seen is hypothetical picks Dylan could have thrown. He only threw 2 all year and one was in the Florida game. Dylan's TD ratio was 8-2 or 4:1 and Connors was 15-7 or 2:1 that is also a stat. Go ahead and discredit that as well but I see the argument continually being Connor has played tougher opponents overall but how many of those games did our offense look great in? And you say teams win or lose games and I cannot agree more and if that is the case then don't you think it is a little irrelevant to use the 16-3 stat time after time. Look I love that record and cannot be more ecstatic about it but you can not just use it is an argument for Connor and then say its a team thing when we lose. To me the best part of those 16 wins is that it is a truly TEAM effort I mean we lost Lattimore and it became the next person step up. I know you weren't suggesting it was simply Connor winning but I thought it needed to be pointed out.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:39 PM   #389
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleGamecock View Post
I agree Dylan's stats are against less than quality defenses and I would like to see him go against a top flight defense to see how he would fare. As for the pick against Florida I don't consider a big deal. I think we look at interceptions as the worst thing a QB can do but it is part of the game. Look we were down huge and Dylan was asked to come in an try to make things happen you can't play conservative when you are down like that and need to try to force some things. I mean look at this way Bret Favre is the all time leading passer and he has also thrown the most picks of all time. When we have a defense that is as good as ours we can play a more conservative offense. A lot of the arguements I have seen is hypothetical picks Dylan could have thrown. He only threw 2 all year and one was in the Florida game. Dylan's TD ratio was 8-2 or 4:1 and Connors was 15-7 or 2:1 that is also a stat. Go ahead and discredit that as well but I see the argument continually being Connor has played tougher opponents overall but how many of those games did our offense look great in? And you say teams win or lose games and I cannot agree more and if that is the case then don't you think it is a little irrelevant to use the 16-3 stat time after time. Look I love that record and cannot be more ecstatic about it but you can not just use it is an argument for Connor and then say its a team thing when we lose. To me the best part of those 16 wins is that it is a truly TEAM effort I mean we lost Lattimore and it became the next person step up. I know you weren't suggesting it was simply Connor winning but I thought it needed to be pointed out.
Of course an interception is the worse thing a QB can do...think about that...TO's kill drives & kill teams...I would rather have a Peyton Manning than a Brett Favre any day! As for Dylan and Florida...I'm not asking for conservative...I am talking accuracy...throwing in the vicinity of our receivers...he was throwing it all over the place. As far as the TD ratio...good stat...and there is no arguing that...other than the teams he has done that against...Connor threw 3 Int's against top 15 defenses. Lastly...please find a post where I use the 16-3 stat. I don't use that unless I have stated he is the most winningest QB we have EVER had...but that is to argue against the haters who say how "bad of a QB he is"...I don't use that for comparing 2 QB's. The QB is the leader of the offense...so a win or loss is credited A LOT to them...they lead there team...but you can't use that as a deciding factor to compare 2 players bc there are far too many other factors...that is why I use individual stats. I don't change my logic according to what the argument is or who the player is...I use the same logic no matter what
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:49 PM   #390
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Old 12-30-2012, 02:28 PM   #391
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by pantera17 View Post
Here is a nice fact for both sides of the argument.

When DT starts we run something that resembles Spurrier's fun n gun.

When CS starts we run a bunch of zone read. And short passes.
Hard to argue with that.... definitely opens up the whole route tree on all parts of the field when Dylan is on the field.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:33 PM   #392
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Dizzy01 View Post
There is an awful lot of mention of the fun-n-gun but Spurrier has been recruiting dual threat QBs for a few years now moving away from that style of offense. For whatever reason Spurrier decided he wanted to implement this hybrid offense long before Shaw arrived at SC so to say he changed his philosophy for Shaw is incorrect.
Not really...he took some good dual threat guys and thought he could utilize their feet after he had Syvelle for half of a season. He has never really wanted a guy that was straight up a dual threat like Shaw until Shaw got on campus. Garcia was a good thrower that could run (coming out of high school....I forget what he did in college). Some of the QB's coming in are more in that mold than the Shaw mold. For many reasons suck as lack of quality O-Line play and depth, comfort of coaches with the zone read, comfort of players with the zone read, etc we have gone more that way.

I think as we move forward into next year you see more of a fun-n-gun with some zone-read/spread philiosphies woven into them. I think a lot of our gameplans, with Shaw, Dylan, or any other QB, will be more like the Clemson game in which we run the zone read every now and then and run Play Action off of it but we also run some out of the I, out of the regular shotgun run sets, etc with the Fun-N-Gun route trees and not the spread route trees. It's amazing to me, and speaks to the quality of our coaches and players, that at times this year we have basically run one offense this week and an almost totally different philosophy the next.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:55 PM   #393
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Dizzy01 View Post
There is an awful lot of mention of the fun-n-gun but Spurrier has been recruiting dual threat QBs for a few years now moving away from that style of offense. For whatever reason Spurrier decided he wanted to implement this hybrid offense long before Shaw arrived at SC so to say he changed his philosophy for Shaw is incorrect.
Spurrier personally recruited Thompson at one of his camps. He said so in an interview.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:54 PM   #394
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

Garcia was considered a project passer coming out of HS. He was considered a strong runner with an above average yard but had poor mechanics and lack of accuracy. He was recruited because Spurrier wanted a mobile QB to incorporate running plays with because he felt the added threat would open things up.

Shaw was also personally recruited by Spurrier and if you recall during his recruitment it was reported that during their individual sit down sessions Spurrier told Shaw he wanted to incorporate even more zone read which is why they were making Shaw their primary target.

I still think at his core Spurrier prefers to play pitch and catch but he's also always been innovative and willing to make changes to keep teams guessing.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:18 PM   #395
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by Dizzy01 View Post
There is an awful lot of mention of the fun-n-gun but Spurrier has been recruiting dual threat QBs for a few years now moving away from that style of offense. For whatever reason Spurrier decided he wanted to implement this hybrid offense long before Shaw arrived at SC so to say he changed his philosophy for Shaw is incorrect.
He decided it based on a couple of factors and has talked about it in interviews and call in shows. The first, and main thing, was Tim Tebow. He stated on a call in show a few years ago that he felt like watching Tim Tebow that having a dual threat guy was the way to go now in college football. He said that the defense had to account for 11 guys instead of just 10 and that it was a lot harder on the defense. I know Tim Tebow is a sore subject now in the NFL, but you have to remember that he really was almost unstoppable at times in college. I remember when we played them the year before he became a starter and Urban would send him in on short yardage situations and goal line situations. EVERYONE in the stadium knew he was going to run off left tackle (he went left every time) and we didn't stop it once. Then, he actually developed into a decent passer (for college) over the next couple of seasons and it was almost impossible to stop them at times.

The second reason, was Syvelle Newton. Spurrier has also talked about how Syvelle Newton, along with what happened with Tebow, led to him changing his philosophy on having a dual threat QB.

Finally, he has stated the defensive players are faster now than when he was at Florida and that makes it more difficult to operate his "fun n gun" system. He said the ball travels at the same velocity as it did when he was at Florida, but that the defensive players get their faster. So he said it is harder to play a system where you use timing and throw to a spot.


That is when we recruited Garcia. Then Connor, Tanner, Brendan, etc. Also, Dylan is not a pure pocket passer and Spurrier knew this when he recruited him as well. Dylan rushed for a ton of yards at Boiling Springs. He was by no means a "pocket passer". He rushed for almost 500 yards and only played in something like seven games his senior season.
In addition, Dylan was a D-1 basketball prospect and was considered very "athletic."

Connor Mitch is the only QB I can think of that we have brought in to SC (well, in the next week) since Tebow was at Florida that was not a dual threat guy. That is what intrigues me so much about Connor Mitch. He is completely different than we have been recruiting.

Last edited by cofcgamecock9; 12-30-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:49 PM   #396
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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In addition, Dylan was a D-1 basketball prospect and was considered very "athletic."

Connor Mitch is the only QB I can think of that we have brought in to SC (well, in the next week) since Tebow was at Florida that was not a dual threat guy. That is what intrigues me so much about Connor Mitch. He is completely different than we have been recruiting.
Carolina would like to have Thompson play both sports like Bruce does. I, for one, am glad he didn't.

Mitch is interesting. I look forward to seeing how he develops.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #397
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

garcia was considered a highly rated dual threat qb. he was invited to the elite eleven camp, if i'm not mistaken. the fun and gun days have been gone for a long time now. dual threat qb's are what's hot now, and many on here forget how exciting it was last year when connor KILLLLLLLLED clempscum with his legs (over 100 yards) and his arm.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:21 PM   #398
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by snoopcockycock View Post
garcia was considered a highly rated dual threat qb. he was invited to the elite eleven camp, if i'm not mistaken. the fun and gun days have been gone for a long time now. dual threat qb's are what's hot now, and many on here forget how exciting it was last year when connor KILLLLLLLLED clempscum with his legs (over 100 yards) and his arm.
but now we have two QBs that can kill Clempscum. We've never had that before.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:45 PM   #399
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
He decided it based on a couple of factors and has talked about it in interviews and call in shows. The first, and main thing, was Tim Tebow. He stated on a call in show a few years ago that he felt like watching Tim Tebow that having a dual threat guy was the way to go now in college football. He said that the defense had to account for 11 guys instead of just 10 and that it was a lot harder on the defense. I know Tim Tebow is a sore subject now in the NFL, but you have to remember that he really was almost unstoppable at times in college. I remember when we played them the year before he became a starter and Urban would send him in on short yardage situations and goal line situations. EVERYONE in the stadium knew he was going to run off left tackle (he went left every time) and we didn't stop it once. Then, he actually developed into a decent passer (for college) over the next couple of seasons and it was almost impossible to stop them at times.

The second reason, was Syvelle Newton. Spurrier has also talked about how Syvelle Newton, along with what happened with Tebow, led to him changing his philosophy on having a dual threat QB.

Finally, he has stated the defensive players are faster now than when he was at Florida and that makes it more difficult to operate his "fun n gun" system. He said the ball travels at the same velocity as it did when he was at Florida, but that the defensive players get their faster. So he said it is harder to play a system where you use timing and throw to a spot.


That is when we recruited Garcia. Then Connor, Tanner, Brendan, etc. Also, Dylan is not a pure pocket passer and Spurrier knew this when he recruited him as well. Dylan rushed for a ton of yards at Boiling Springs. He was by no means a "pocket passer". He rushed for almost 500 yards and only played in something like seven games his senior season.
In addition, Dylan was a D-1 basketball prospect and was considered very "athletic."

Connor Mitch is the only QB I can think of that we have brought in to SC (well, in the next week) since Tebow was at Florida that was not a dual threat guy. That is what intrigues me so much about Connor Mitch. He is completely different than we have been recruiting.
Oline play was another reason he wanted to make the transition as well since being able to move helps when the oline struggles to block. It's hard to let a route tree develop when the QB is under pressure. I didn't really mean whatever in the sense of the unknown but more that Spurrier has made a conscious decision to move away from the classic fun-n-gun which I think is a positive thing.

I'm intrigued by Mitch because he appears to be mobile but not a scrambler. He reminds me a bit of the Rodger brothers where he moves to find throwing lanes which is still helpful for the oline and extends plays.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:01 PM   #400
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Default Re: Dylan Thompson To Play

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Originally Posted by snoopcockycock View Post
and here's an interesting little FACT for you, connor has faced uga as a top six team, florida as a top five team, lsu as a top ten team, tenn, arkie (while they were top ten team), miss st (while they were top twenty team), clempscum and nebraska while they were top twenty teams. and he has a 16-3 career record. thompson has faced a nobody, and an admittedly highly overrated clempscum team, with one of the worst defenses in the nation. the same defense that gave up gigantic point totals to some pretty horrible offenses in the acc. yet, thompson with more offensive chances than almost any of our other games this year or last, managed to put up ONLY 27 points on them, and almost throw SIX int's.
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As for your interesting little fact, you do realize there is a pretty big difference in the number of starts, right? I have also lost zero games as a starter, as have you. Maybe one of us should be qb?
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Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007 View Post
Here's an interesting fact...TEAMS WIN AND LOSE GAMES...NOT QB's. Why not try to compare INDIVIDUAL FACTS....you know...such as stats...which is used to compare players...OH...bc that wouldn't help your biased argument! Hahahaha[/b]
Thank you guys for making my point! Bravo! Facts are truth, but how they are presented...skewed...and the things implied with/by them aren't necessarily 100% true. There are a few posting here that like doing this but think that no one else notices. A few pages back, Connor was responsible for his 16-3 record, now teams win and lose...I guess that helped his biased argument.

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Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007 View Post
again all you are doing is showing your biased opinion...you make it sound like Connor did that bad against these teams when he actually put up just as good numbers if not better as the heisman winner against these teams. And make up any excuse u want...Connor played half against Fla & Dylan played the other half...one threw a pic against the 2nd string D...one didnt against the first string
As long as we are showing our biased opinions, you are correct (for once) that CS didn't throw a pic against the 'first string' of Florida's defense...all he did was not see a CB that blitzed from the sideline right in front of his face and then hand him the ball on the two yard line.

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Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
I have also lost zero games as a starter, as have you. Maybe one of us should be qb?
LOL...I don't know about you, but I don't even want to know the over/under on how many plays I would last out there today. I have a sneaky suspicion that the same left knee that shortened my football days long ago would rear its ugly head pretty quickly. Plus, right now I am 25 pounds under my playing weight so by the time I was in shape enough to get back out there, Connor Mitch would have at least a year's worth of starting experience under his belt and the point would be moot. Thanks for making me laugh some though! Points headed your way for that!
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Last edited by Cocky2001; 12-30-2012 at 07:05 PM. Reason: clarity
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