the qb questions will continue...

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

Kane, still looking for an answer to my question.

If Shaw starts next year, is Spurrier wrong?

Well, in all honesty, he has about 9 months to come up with an answer. A lot can happen during that time and Kane isn't Nostradomas...I don't believe he has a crystal ball (if he does, then I want to get to know him in real life so that I can start betting on games)...but the truth of the matter as we all know is that we pay Spurrier to make this decision so No.

I don't think Kane is trying to butt heads with SOS here, he is just stating his opinion...I think that Thompson had the better game today as well based on two things...what each accomplished versus the number of plays that each played AND the fact that at the end Connor was unable to go (recurring reality) and Thompson finished the job. That now said, I was, and am, willing to just look at the positives that each contributed today to the win. We won...nearly got robbed on a bogus 1st down call...saw the HIT OF THE CENTURY and we won.

If we want to focus our energies on something that needs to improve, let's look at the OL. Cause even if Wilds can run the read option like he did at the end of last season, I don't know that the others can and if we have learned anything these past two seasons, it takes more than one TB these days...and I think we learned this season that even CS can't make it through a season running it from the QB position...and if he can't...only Tebow might be able to do it now...and thank God we don't have to worry about that any more.


(EDIT: Looks like a lot happened while I was typing that and on the phone...)

[Kazak]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

I just don't understand how this is even a debate anymore. I give shaw credit for some great runs and his scramble on the final drive and finding Ace obviously kept the drive alive. But we're not even in that situation if Shaw could avoid tucking the ball when his first option is covered and scrambling right into the arms of a waiting lineman/LB.

His throws downfield are wobbly and under thrown (no zip whatsoever) and because he looks to run first so frequently he basically negates the RBs. The more traditional sets/play calling with DT (since the zone read isn't as effective) mean the RBs actually get to, you know, RUN.

Shaw certainly had some good moments today and greatly contributed to the win. But a lot of the reason the D was gassed and the game was so close was directly a result of his inability to sustain drives or score points.

There is no debate...that you are blind as a bat. Get to an eye doctor immediately. Connor had some GREAT throws today.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Why? Because there's mounting evidence to discredit your "shaw is so much better than DT"?

I'm glad they're both on the team and don't want to denigrate connor's contributions to the win. At the same time you just can't dismiss his struggles.

Here we go again...I never said Shaw was "that" much better than Dylan...I have explained time and time again that he has PROVEN more! Shaw has done better against bad defenses and good defenses. Dylan hasn't don as good as Connor has against bad defenses (Connor has thrown for 4 TDs in a game...and 356 in another...Dylan hasn't). I am more than happy to have both too...but the proof is in the pudding! Did Dylan look better today than Connor throwing and make less mistakes...YES...does that make him better...NO...bc Connor has PROVEN MORE

[cofcgamecock9]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

I just don't understand how this is even a debate anymore. I give shaw credit for some great runs and his scramble on the final drive and finding Ace obviously kept the drive alive. But we're not even in that situation if Shaw could avoid tucking the ball when his first option is covered and scrambling right into the arms of a waiting lineman/LB.

His throws downfield are wobbly and under thrown (no zip whatsoever) and because he looks to run first so frequently he basically negates the RBs. The more traditional sets/play calling with DT (since the zone read isn't as effective) mean the RBs actually get to, you know, RUN.

Shaw certainly had some good moments today and greatly contributed to the win. But a lot of the reason the D was gassed and the game was so close was directly a result of his inability to sustain drives or score points.

Kane, lets go back to this post above that was your first post in this thread (I think). Please re-read this post and then tell me how you would think that Spurrier was making anything but a wrong decision if he starts Shaw next year?

You say it shouldn't even be debatable. Lets think about what that means. It means that something isn't even close. As in that the difference between the two is so glaring that only someone that doesn't know what they are doing would think it should even be a discussion. Re-read your post very carefully. You didn't say "it is my opinion that DT is the better QB, but I can see both sides of the argument because Connor does some good things too." You said that it wasn't even close and it wasn't debatable which to anyone with common sense would mean that you were implying it was a statement of fact and not just an opinion. Basically saying that anyone who thinks Connor Shaw should start doesn't know what they are watching. Again, go back and read what you stated and please tell me how it could be taken any other way. If I am putting words in your mouth, then I apologize, but you tell me how what you said should be interpreted any differently.

But then later, you try to backtrack some and say that people are just jumping on you for not "slobbering all over Shaw". But that isn't what happened at all. What happened was that you said Shaw wasn't even in the same league as Dylan and then went on to point out all of Shaw's deficiencies.

But yet if Spurrier decides to start Shaw then what does that mean about Spurrier's decision BASED ON THE COMMENTS you made in this post??

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by CoverTwo

Hard for some people to do that bc you and snoop rubbed them the wrong way.

Please explain how I "rub" any ody the wrong way. I have an opinion just like anyone else...but when someone downs it or says I am wrong...stats back up m opinions more often than not...can't help it how others take that.

But again...I like both QBs and whoever gives us the best chance to win I am all for

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

But you are finding fault with a guy that was very close to being the MVP of the game, got a game ball from the head coach, and that same coach said that he played SUPER. You mentioned DL Moore above. We aren't talking about DL Moore. We are talking about a guy that completed 70% of his passes for 250+ yards with no turnovers and rushed for 100 (10 yard per carry average).

Just very clueless as to why you are picking right now, today, after that game to try and say that Connor has "obvious flaws" that cost us dearly in games.

Sorry if you can't see the confusion with that. I just think it is really poor timing and I don't see the point in it at all.

DJ Swearinger has "flaws" in his game. He missed a tackle today that cost us yardage because he was going for the big hit instead of trying to tackle the guy. He has done this on many occasions. His personal fouls also do cost us. Clowney, even though he is the best player in college football, has "flaws" in his game.

Just not sure what the point is in coming on a message board after a big win for our team when the team played its heart out and going out of my way to talk about it.

Connor got a game ball today for a reason. Not sure why you aren't talking about all of the positives instead of feeling it is your duty to point out everything he does wrong.

You are right though, you have a right to post whatever you want. I just don't understand it in the least. I don't get the purpose, I don't get anything about it.

The title of the thread is "QB questions will continue" and it was started by a poster who has aggressively gone after anyone who would dare suggests that Thompson may be a better option. (A trait you seem to share.) within the thread there was discussion about the play of both players w/ the OP going as far as to say that "Thompson had obvious drawbacks/bad play today". I took umbrage w/ that particular notion and you took it upon yourself to be the moral police of the internets to let me know how "pathetic" I was w/ "my Cheetos" and "what have YOU done", etc.

You want to talk about Clowney's flaws or compare his contribution as an individual player to the team compared to Shaw's? Be my guest. I'm begging you. Trying to say "all players have flaws" is a false analogy. (Though again: let's hear those Clowney faults.) were in a thread regarding QB play and I have seen ample evidence to fundamental flaws in Shaw's gameplay that have negatively effected the offensive efficiency of the team. My DL Moore point was in reference to you taking umbrage w/ any form of criticism whatsoever, not DL's shortcomings or lack thereof.

I have also given shaw credit for his gameplay overall and have never once questioned his desire or toughness or anything PERSONAL about him. I am specifically talking about aspects of his play at the position per the topic of the thread. I'm glad he got a gameball. I'm glad we won. Saying "we'll Clowney has flaws" doesn't change anything, and if you want to discuss them, feel free to start a topic entitled "Questions about Clowney's play".

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

rubbed them the wrong way? What? for defending our players? The ones who actually go out and bust their ass for the team and put in all the time so we can sit on the couch, drink beers, and act like we have something to do with the outcome of the game?

They should be ashamed.

[Kazak]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

I just want everyone who dumps on Thompson and gives Shaw a pass to acknowledge that just MAYBE they were wrong. If you disagree over who should start, fine. But don't act like Shaw has been Connor Football and Thompson isn't fit to carry his jock strap.

Here's the thing: Virtually no one is dumping on Thompson! Everyone likes the kid! I've seen nothing but praise for him on this site for months!

But folks like yourself feel the need to dump on Connor Shaw, over and over and over, no matter how well he plays.

That's what irks fans, like myself, who don't appreciate flagrant player bashing. I wouldn't like it if you were bashing Dylan either.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Kazak

There is no debate...that you are blind as a bat. Get to an eye doctor immediately. Connor had some GREAT throws today.

And he had many that were under thrown, horribly so. (But thank god for these Braille keyboards!!)

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Kazak

Here's the thing: Virtually no one is dumping on Thompson! Everyone likes the kid! I've seen nothing but praise for him on this site for months!

But folks like yourself feel the need to dump on Connor Shaw, over and over and over, no matter how well he plays.

That's what irks fans, like myself, who don't appreciate flagrant player bashing. I wouldn't like it if you were bashing Dylan either.

There have been a multitude of threads on this subject and Thompson has been vehemently dismissed as being viable. I am not "player bashing", I'm discussing the play of a player. There is a fundamental difference and I don't appreciate the accusation.

[Legalman72]

Originally Posted by Kazak

Here's the thing: Virtually no one is dumping on Thompson! Everyone likes the kid! I've seen nothing but praise for him on this site for months!

But folks like yourself feel the need to dump on Connor Shaw, over and over and over, no matter how well he plays.

That's what irks fans, like myself, who don't appreciate flagrant player bashing. I wouldn't like it if you were bashing Dylan either.

Amen! Why even argue this now. Save it for August. Enjoy the win!

[CoverTwo]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Please explain how I "rub" any ody the wrong way. I have an opinion just like anyone else...but when someone downs it or says I am wrong...stats back up m opinions more often than not...can't help it how others take that.

But again...I like both QBs and whoever gives us the best chance to win I am all for

It's just the way you responded. I'm sure some of the people you got into it with will be able to explain it better than I can.

[COCKYTALKIN]

What bad plays were made by Dylan? The dude only took 12 snaps. I'm assuming you meant the sack, OP??? I would have to somewhat agree, I'm sure there is somewhere he could have dumped the ball if he'd have seen the defender coming from his blind side. However, I'm sure the unblocked DE coming straight at him had his attention.

I was glad to see Connor make some of the throws we all know he CAN make. He obviously has the ability and is the only 200+ yard passer vs. Mich. all year. Hopefully he continues this path and gives receivers an opportunity to make a play as he did with Ace in the end zone today.

Very impressive game today. A whole lot of guts! Everything was left on the field today.

... but OP, please clarify what issues you had with Dylan Thompson today. Because he looked pretty sharp to me. But maybe I just don't know what I'm looking at.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

Kane, lets go back to this post above that was your first post in this thread (I think). Please re-read this post and then tell me how you would think that Spurrier was making anything but a wrong decision if he starts Shaw next year?

You say it shouldn't even be debatable. Lets think about what that means. It means that something isn't even close. As in that the difference between the two is so glaring that only someone that doesn't know what they are doing would think it should even be a discussion. Re-read your post very carefully. You didn't say "it is my opinion that DT is the better QB, but I can see both sides of the argument." You said that it wasn't even close and it wasn't debatable which to anyone with common sense would mean that you were implying it was a statement of fact and not just an opinion. Basically saying that anyone who thinks Connor Shaw should start doesn't know what they are watching. Again, go back and read what you stated and please tell me how it could be taken any other way.

But then later, you try to backtrack some and say that people are just jumping on you for not "slobbering all over Shaw". But that isn't what happened at all. What happened was that you said Shaw wasn't even in the same league as Dylan and then went on to point out all of Shaw's deficiencies.

But yet if Spurrier decides to start Shaw then what does that mean about Spurrier's decision BASED ON THE COMMENTS you made in this post??

You're just trolling now, sorry. I answered your question. Repeatedly, despite your inability to acknowledge that "open competition" would suggest SOS isnt as enamored by Shaw's Gameplay as you are or seem to think that Spurrier is. There's nothing I've said that is "backtracking" or changing any aspect of what I said. I answered your question. You think asking yours over and over again will result in a changed answer. It won't.

I don't feel as though Shaw is in the same league as far as this past season was concerned. If you needed me to type "my opinion is" to clarify that what I posted was, in fact, my opinion then I suggest you work on reading comprehension skills. I stated my opinion and then elaborated on some of the specifics of that opinion.

Still waiting on "questions regarding Clowney's play" thread. Or you to answer MY question.

[COCKYTALKIN]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Please explain how I "rub" any ody the wrong way. I have an opinion just like anyone else...but when someone downs it or says I am wrong...stats back up m opinions more often than not...can't help it how others take that.

But again...I like both QBs and whoever gives us the best chance to win I am all for

To use your words "let me dumb this down for you"...

Copy and paste this word into your search bar and read the definition: condescension.

Ex: Wow, just wow, can't believe anyone has to spell this out for you.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by CoverTwo

It's just the way you responded. I'm sure some of the people you got into it with will be able to explain it better than I can.

It was the total dismissal of any notion that there may even be a conversation about who could be better at QB. and then utilizing circular logic to say "Thompson only beat bad Ds" but then touting Shaw's numbers that, upon closer inspection, shaw feasted on subpar Ds, failing to acknowledge the difference.

Grip just believes in the coaches and is optimistic about the players, though, and I can't find much fault in that. Snoop, on the other hand...

EDIT: just read his "proof is in the pudding" post and take all of this back. Sill completely dismissive of DT and only has eyes for Shaw. Arguing with a signpost at this point.

[gamecock88]

We have 2 very capable leaders at QB. They both have different styles and both should continue to split PT next year. They support one another, cheer for the other's success, and we should as well. Shaw, when healthy is a dynamic Qb who gives the D fits when game planning. Thompson sees the field and lets it rip. He'll only get better with more live action vs quality opp.

[cofcgamecock9]

Bottom line... Spurrier watched the Clemson game and every other game this season and still started Shaw today and Shaw got most of the snaps. Must have been a reason for that. Spurrier watched the game today. Spurrier will watch the game film. Spurrier will see every practice next Spring and fall.

Whoever Spurrier says should start, should start. Is he infallible? No, but he certainly has a hell of a lot more expertise and information about it than anyone on this message board. That is the part that is not debatable. Can fans have an opinion? Absolutely. But we also recognize that those opinions are uninformed opinions with very little real knowledge of the situation since fans don't know what plays are being called, don't see practices, don't get to talk to the players and for so many other reasons. It is kind of like me having an opinion on where we should spend our money next on cancer research when I am not a cancer survivor and am not involved in that profession in any way. I can have an opinion, but it certainly would be pretty conceited of me to think that my opinion was a very intelligent one or one that had much merit in what actually happened in the areas of cancer research.

If DT starts then Spurrier must have his reasons. If CS starts then Spurrier must feel CS gives us the best chance to win.

Both played absolutely excellent today and both got the recognition they deserve from the coaches and each other. It was a GREAT day for SC quarterbacks.

[carolinacoast]

Originally Posted by Kazak

Here's the thing: Virtually no one is dumping on Thompson! Everyone likes the kid! I've seen nothing but praise for him on this site for months!

But folks like yourself feel the need to dump on Connor Shaw, over and over and over, no matter how well he plays.

That's what irks fans, like myself, who don't appreciate flagrant player bashing. I wouldn't like it if you were bashing Dylan either.

Both are guys of great character who are also very close friends. I bet Dylan would be the first one to defend Shaw against his detractors, and vice versa.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

Bottom line... Spurrier watched the Clemson game and every other game this season and still started Shaw today and Shaw got most of the snaps. Must have been a reason for that. Spurrier watched the game today. Spurrier will watch the game film. Spurrier will see every practice next Spring and fall.

Whoever Spurrier says should start, should start. Is he infallible? No, but he certainly has a hell of a lot more expertise and information about it than anyone on this message board. That is the part that is not debatable. Can fans have an opinion? Absolutely. But we also recognize that those opinions are uninformed opinions with very little real knowledge of the situation.

So it certainly is not debatable that Spurrier is better qualified to decide who should play than anyone on this board.

If DT starts then Spurrier must have his reasons. If CS starts then Spurrier must feel CS gives us the best chance to win.

Both played absolutely excellent today and both got the recognition they deserve from the coaches and each other. It was a GREAT day for SC quarterbacks.

And MY OPINION is that this season (and in this game) thompson demonstrated he was better at utilizing the entirety of the offense and made us more multi-dimensional. And that it was so evident TO ME that it shouldn't even be a debate. It is my opinion, which according to you now, I'm entitled to. So thank you. I was specific (and could be more so) but you're more interested in enumerating all my faults as a member of society. If Spurrier called all his timeouts before the first play of the game was run and did it every single game all season, would it be alright to say "hey, why is he doing that?" Especially if it was in a thread entitled "spurriers use of timeouts seems questionable"?

IF Shaw is so much better THEN there should be no open competition, yes?

Again: I'm fine if shaw earns it and demonstrates that he's worked on the deficient parts of his game that are a detriment to offensive efficiency. If he's doing the same things and Thompson is playing the way he has this season? I'm going to question it. We can discuss then if you'd like.