One Argument is Now Ended

[cofcgamecock9]

Originally Posted by me4USC

Thompson played less than one quarter; Shaw played more than three. Multiply Thompson's stats by three to get a clearer picture.

Shaw: 18/26, 224, 8.6, 2
Thompson (X3): 21/30, 351, 11.7, 6

It's not perfect, I know, because no one knows for certain what would have happened, but it's fairer than saying one had better stats than the other. Both were right at 70% on completions, and there's no way to predict the yards per pass by doing this, so I left that stat the same.

No, its not even close to perfect. It is ridiculous in fact. It doesn't give you a "clearer" picture because they are made up stats because they didn't happen.

Connor Shaw played EXCELLENT when he was in the game and he got a game ball for it from Coach Spurrier. Dylan Thompson played EXCELLENT when he was in the game and he got a game ball for it.

It is awesome to have two really good QBs that BOTH got game balls.

[chatam]

Originally Posted by Gamecocks4Life86

A big reason y i like DT is bc hes patient and isnt afraid to get Hit like that last TD throw he made yesterday! Had that been Shaw i truly think he wouldve started running bc he has shown that as soon as he feels pressured he runs. Regardless, they are both great QBs and both have their strengths and weaknesses. im just glad i dont have to worry anymore if the starting QB goes down for an injury

These are my thoughts as well; I agree 100%.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

me4usc, Spurrier has never been set on anyone being the starter a full season later. I can't think of ANY TIME in Spurrier's tenure that he has said on January 1st that "this guy or that guy is going to be the starter." Do you listen to Spurrier? If he was asked about it, I am absolutely CERTAIN that he said the exact same thing last season after the bowl game. He was asked the question and he answered it as he HAS ALWAYS answered that question going into the offseason.

Now, having said that, I absolutely agree that the competition will be wide open. It will be wide open JUST AS IT HAS BEEN EVERY OTHER SEASON. Do you remember Tommy Beecher starting a few years ago against NC State? Do you remember Connor Shaw starting two seasons ago over Garcia? Why did those happen? They happened because there was open competition JUST AS THERE IS EVERY YEAR.

Can you provide links to back up your assertion that Spurrier said last season there would be a "wide open competition"? I'm not saying he didn't, but you seem so certain of it w/o any tangible proof.

Also: would love to see you take Snoop to task for his "bashing" of Thompson's sack and his last TD throw that won the ball game since you're not pro-Connor but only pro-defending-all-players-from-any-play-criticism-whatsoever.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by chatam

These are my thoughts as well; I agree 100%.

Both of you should prepare yourselves to be called "player-bashers" and be told how wrong you are about any type of criticism of Connor's play.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Can you provide links to back up your assertion that Spurrier said last season there would be a "wide open competition"? I'm not saying he didn't, but you seem so certain of it w/o any tangible proof.

Also: would love to see you take Snoop to task for his "bashing" of Thompson's sack and his last TD throw that won the ball game since you're not pro-Connor but only pro-defending-all-players-from-any-play-criticism-whatsoever.

http://southcarolina.247sports.com/A...commence-64831

“I don’t want them to try to act like they’re trying to be the No. 2 guy, I want them to act like they’re trying to beat Connor out,” Mangus said. “If you take any other attitude, then I think you’re selling the program short.”

Mangus did say that Shaw “is the pretty obvious choice” as the number one quarterback, but everyone else is just one play away from being the new number one.

“The more talent you continue to recruit and bring in, you hope there’s a constant quarterback battle and I’ll never change on that,” Mangus said. “That’s something that I learned from coach Spurrier a long time ago. I think anybody who knows anything about coaching knows that competition makes everybody better. It makes common sense.”

I suppose it depends how you define "open competition." If you take a hardline stance on it, as in saying there was never a favorite, then you are correct, it was not an open competition. If you take the coaches actual words and meanings and realize that what they are saying is anyone can be the starter if they prove they can do it, then it was an open competition. Semantics, in this case, matter.

While we are at it, Dylan wasn't always the number 2 quarterback for us this year:

http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...-opener-audio/

Dylan Thompson struggled when he came in for Shaw and Spurrier said Seth Strickland is now the number two quarterback. Strickland took a few snaps in the second half to spell Shaw but didn’t throw a pass.

All that to say, you can see the open competition in practice this year among the staff. No one gets their job automatically, no one.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by trapper82

http://southcarolina.247sports.com/A...commence-64831



I suppose it depends how you define "open competition." If you take a hardline stance on it, as in saying there was never a favorite, then you are correct, it was not an open competition. If you take the coaches actual words and meanings and realize that what they are saying is anyone can be the starter if they prove they can do it, then it was an open competition. Semantics, in this case, matter.

While we are at it, Dylan wasn't always the number 2 quarterback for us this year:

http://sportstalkgolive.com/index.ph...-opener-audio/



All that to say, you can see the open competition in practice this year among the staff. No one gets their job automatically, no one.

Saying that one is "the clear favorite" (but should be pushed, which I agree w/) is nowhere near the same as "open competition", and that's not simply semantics. The spirit of the coaches' words seem to be "you can take it, but it's his to lose" as opposed to "it's a wide open competition", no?

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Saying that one is "the clear favorite" (but should be pushed, which I agree w/) is nowhere near the same as "open competition", and that's not simply semantics. The spirit of the coaches' words seem to be "you can take it, but it's his to lose" as opposed to "it's a wide open competition", no?

Like I said...depends what you mean. I think you could argue either point based on how you approached the situation. Some people think open competition means there is no clear favorite, others think it means (during the off-season especially) that anyone can take the job.

Personally, I think if you take the former of those you rarely ever have that situation in sports. When is the last time one QB didn't have SOME kind of advantage, be it knowledge of a system, or recruitment rank/pay scale (in the pros), familiarity with a coach, experience, etc.

[Cock Kool-Aid]

I have been a Connor Shaw holdout up until this last bowl game concluded... I may be changing my stance as I am starting to suspect that our offense may be better with Dylan Thompson in there. It's a difficult judgement to make with all of the circumstances surrounding this. We will see what happens next season. If the bowl game was any indication, we may not have to choose one guy as Spurrier may be content to rotate them.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid

I have been a Connor Shaw holdout up until this last bowl game concluded... I may be changing my stance as I am starting to suspect that our offense may be better with Dylan Thompson in there. It's a difficult judgement to make with all of the circumstances surrounding this. We will see what happens next season. If the bowl game was any indication, we may not have to choose one guy as Spurrier may be content to rotate them.

I am actually in agreement with you. After this bowl game I too personally think Dylan Thompson is the best QB for this system, but I stop short of saying that he should start, because of Steve Spurrier and company think it should be Shaw then I believe they are correct.

That being said, we probably don't win the game if we don't have both of them. Some things Shaw did I doubt Dylan could do, and vice versa.

[Cock Kool-Aid]

When Dylan takes the snap, I just have a different feeling than when Shaw is back there. I feel confident that DT will make his reads and get the ball out. Whenever Shaw takes the snap, I find myself worrying that he will hesitate to throw the ball and end up running around or getting sacked. I realize that Dylan gets sacked too, but I don't know. Just how I feel as a fan right now.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by trapper82

I am actually in agreement with you. After this bowl game I too personally think Dylan Thompson is the best QB for this system, but I stop short of saying that he should start, because of Steve Spurrier and company think it should be Shaw then I believe they are correct.

That being said, we probably don't win the game if we don't have both of them. Some things Shaw did I doubt Dylan could do, and vice versa.

I agree w/ all of this (and Kool-Aid as well, though I soured on Shaw earlier in the season, mostly because I think he was suffering from injury much more than he/the team let on and it was a detriment.)

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid

When Dylan takes the snap, I just have a different feeling than when Shaw is back there. I feel confident that DT will make his reads and get the ball out. Whenever Shaw takes the snap, I find myself worrying that he will hesitate to throw the ball and end up running around or getting sacked. I realize that Dylan gets sacked too, but I don't know. Just how I feel as a fan right now.

Just know that others have been expressing this sentiment/concern for months now and you will be told how much of an idiot you are and how blind you are and how you're not entitled to said concern because you're not Steve Spurrier. (Unless you are Steve Spurrier, and then you'll probably be told the same.)

[SwimCock]

At the beginning of the season, there was an analysis of the teams with the best QB tandem and The USC was not ranked very high, since no one knew what DT could do. If you did that analysis now, we would (or should) be near the top.

[ReadR00ster]

Originally Posted by me4USC

Thompson played less than one quarter; Shaw played more than three. Multiply Thompson's stats by three to get a clearer picture.

Shaw: 18/26, 224, 8.6, 2
Thompson (X3): 21/30, 351, 11.7, 6

It's not perfect, I know, because no one knows for certain what would have happened, but it's fairer than saying one had better stats than the other. Both were right at 70% on completions, and there's no way to predict the yards per pass by doing this, so I left that stat the same.

LOL. you can't just multiply by 3. I don't care how good Thompson is. He is not scoring 6 TDs in 3 quarters. And don't you forgot to add Shaw's rushing yards. He ran for like a hundred yards with a limp. Those number by Shaw for 3 quarters are outstanding.

[Dizzy01]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

Nothing kills an offense like missing those 3-4 open deep shots. The TD pass Dylan hit and the pass to Jones was the exact pass that Shaw missed early down the middle. He just doesn't have that touch. He has plenty of arm strength. Shaw can make any line drive throw where he can just let it rip and doesn't need touch. Dylan is more pure passer so not as big an issue for him.

I'm not sure you can call Jones falling down Shaw missing a pass. Guys were really struggling with their footing yesterday (which helped the defense against Robinson) and Jones slipped when he was turning to make a move on the ball.

Shaws completion percentage just doesn't support him not having touch. It's awful hard to complete 60+% of your passes for a season when you're just flinging it.

[ucan'tlickourcocks]

How can you say the Argument is over?

I'd like to make the case that there was no argument! Shaw won the competition in the Spring, and never did anything to lose his job! SOS stated MANY times that Shaw is our starting QB! SOS is loyal to a fault....... if he says Shaw is the Starter..... thats it! The only argument was amongst fans! At the same time, he also acknowledged the hard work that Thompson had put in....... which is why Dylan played!

The argument IS NOT over....... but one thing I can say with reasonable certainty....... without BOTH QB's, we would likely to have lost the Outback Bowl!

Kudo's to Shaw and Thompson...... they BOTH are capable QB's, which only bodes well for our future!

[me4USC]

Originally Posted by ReadR00ster

LOL. you can't just multiply by 3. I don't care how good Thompson is. He is not scoring 6 TDs in 3 quarters. And don't you forgot to add Shaw's rushing yards. He ran for like a hundred yards with a limp. Those number by Shaw for 3 quarters are outstanding.

I didn't forget his rushing yards. I know exactly what he did, and he deserves credit for it. Add his rushing yards to his passing yards. He still doesn't pass Thompson.

You want to compare the stats of a player who got less than 10 minutes of time with one who got all the rest. That's not fair.

You have no idea how many TD's DT could have scored had he been left in. Neither do I. The fact is that he scored as many as Shaw in 1/3 of the time. Do you think he wouldn't have scored any more at all? I really don't like the discussion. They both deserve credit, but you don't want to give any to Thompson.

[dapheet]

Love the velocity DT puts on the football. Looks normal going across my screen. I swear Shaw's are a little slow.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by me4USC

I didn't forget his rushing yards. I know exactly what he did, and he deserves credit for it. Add his rushing yards to his passing yards. He still doesn't pass Thompson.

You want to compare the stats of a player who got less than 10 minutes of time with one who got all the rest. That's not fair.

You have no idea how many TD's DT could have scored had he been left in. Neither do I. The fact is that he scored as many as Shaw in 1/3 of the time. Do you think he wouldn't have scored any more at all? I really don't like the discussion. They both deserve credit, but you don't want to give any to Thompson.

You still can't multiply it by 3. What you are saying is it is not fair to compare a backup to a starter, I agree with you on that. But the situations are different, the down and distance, the needs of the game. Both played great, and I believe we would not have won that game without both of those guys as each did something the other isn't known for.

[cofcgamecock9]

Originally Posted by me4USC

I didn't forget his rushing yards. I know exactly what he did, and he deserves credit for it. Add his rushing yards to his passing yards. He still doesn't pass Thompson.

You want to compare the stats of a player who got less than 10 minutes of time with one who got all the rest. That's not fair.

You have no idea how many TD's DT could have scored had he been left in. Neither do I. The fact is that he scored as many as Shaw in 1/3 of the time. Do you think he wouldn't have scored any more at all? I really don't like the discussion. They both deserve credit, but you don't want to give any to Thompson.

Haha, he doesn't "pass Thompson" as you put it because you are making up his stats. You can't do that. You right that we have no idea what DT could have done, because he didn't do it. You are right that you also can't compare stats because they were in completely different situations. But just like you can't compare stats, you also can't simply multiply by 3 and make them up.

Also, you are saying that readrooster doesn't give any credit to Thompson? haha. do you read his posts? On what grounds are you saying that readrooster doesn't want to give any credit to Thompson? Because he doesn't think you should credit him with stats that he didn't get? That is funny.

So please tell me where I don't give Thompson credit in the following statements. These are all things I have already said in this thread.
1. Connor and Dylan both played excellent yesterday and produced two of the best performances I have ever seen by Gamecocks. They were a combined 9 for 9 when the game was on the line and scored twice to take the lead.
2. Both were given game balls for their performance and they deserved them. They both played excellent.
3. If Spurrier decides that Dylan Thompson should be the starter next year or get increased playing time, I am 100% behind it because he has looked good when he has been on the field.

So tell me where I am not giving him credit in those comments? Ok, so now that we have established the fact that I am giving him credit, I will say just as rooster did that you simply can't make up stats for a player that didn't happen. It doesn't work that way.