One Argument is Now Ended

[ReadR00ster]

Originally Posted by gamecockguy

The only point is that the Michigan D wasn't as good as it was during the regular season.... some people are acting like it was great

Their secondary played horrible. They were stacking the box and selling out on blitzes though, which did well against any kind of runs and short plays, but we were able to take advantage of them down the field. The only thing that was working for us at all really was the long ball, and the occasional QB draw.

[Sharky]

Conner has played his heart out, but I think Thompson should be given a chance. The fact that this whole debate has the two QB's pretty even gives my nod to Thompson. Consider the potential for upside. Shaw has played a lot and we know what he can do. Thompson has played a little and there is a debate on who should start. I want to know what Dylan can do if he is the starter. I want to see how much Dylan will improve and learn. The little bit he's played this year, he's progressed tremendously. Not a knock on Shaw. We know what he can do. I just think the ceiling is higher for Dylan.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

Are you kidding me?

That's the best spin that you can come up with?

The problem is we didn't play this game last season...we played this game this season.

The game two days ago is what we are talking about here...not games played a year ago. This isn't clemson, we don't dwell in the past...well, most of us anyway.

We were looking in one game. You are going back to last season. So, your numbers don't matter in this. Overall, going into next season, ass-u-ming that Connor heals up to his 2011 health status, then they come into play. But in this discussion, comparing numbers that are a year old when he was healthy to two days ago, when he wasn't and couldn't finish the game, doesn't even come close to cutting it.

Spin away. When unraveled, you'll still be wrong.

Do u just read what u want to read or is it u just want to ignore the facts and think your opinion is better than facts? Please pay close attention and comprehend...this part was mentioned not once but twice...(LAST TIME HEALTHY). Sorry if u missed that part...but it's the same logic y'all were doing...taking stats from a certain time frame and multiplying them to play psychic and think it would repeat itself...but when u do it to benefit Connor...it's only for one game...can't go back but so far huh? BAHAHAHA hilarious!

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

I'm going to entertain this for a second: I actually thought Connor had the potential this season to put up Manziel-level numbers (not the sheer amount, but in the same wheelhouse). I don't think, however, any of us know (outside of CS and the coaching/medical staff) how injured he truly was or wasn't. I understand you're making a point here about extrapolating DT's numbers and how that can be a futile exercise, but I think you really think your bolded statement is true. (FTR, I would love if it was.)

All we have to go on is what DT did do when he was in, which you want to dismiss seemingly.

I apologize in advance...but you're being a little contradictory don't u think? In one sentence u say u believed Connor had the potential to put up numbers in the same "wheelhouse" of the heisman winner...but now am I way off for possibly thinkin the same thing if he is 100%?

[Don Giovanni]

I find it somewhat funny the title of the thread metions something ending, because the topic of which QB should start/play is the topic that never ends. It just goes on and on my friend. Some posters started posting it, and they knew what it was. Now we'll continue this thread on forever just because this is the topic that never ends. It just goes on and on my friend.

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

I apologize in advance...but you're being a little contradictory don't u think? In one sentence u say u believed Connor had the potential to put up numbers in the same "wheelhouse" of the heisman winner...but now am I way off for possibly thinkin the same thing if he is 100%?

Sorry, let me clarify: I thought that prior to the season Connor could have a season of big time passing and running yardage, the type of season (though nowhere to the degree) that Manziel had. I didn't say before the season "Connor and Manziel are going to have huge seasons", more that I look at Manziel's season in retrospect and think "that, albeit lesser scale, is what I thought CS would do this season".

After witnessing this past season, however, I realize I was incredibly wrong. Whereas (as I was pointing out) I think you really believe that healthy Connor Shaw= Heisman candidate. I'd love it if you were right. I don't think you are.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

Sorry, let me clarify: I thought that prior to the season Connor could have a season of big time passing and running yardage, the type of season (though nowhere to the degree) that Manziel had. I didn't say before the season "Connor and Manziel are going to have huge seasons", more that I look at Manziel's season in retrospect and think "that, albeit lesser scale, is what I thought CS would do this season".

After witnessing this past season, however, I realize I was incredibly wrong. Whereas (as I was pointing out) I think you really believe that healthy Connor Shaw= Heisman candidate. I'd love it if you were right. I don't think you are.

I think all of Gamecock nation would love for ANY of our QBs to be in that talk. As far as u realizing u were wrong...please don't negate the fact that he wasnt healthy this year....pretty much all year...so hopefully we will see next year

[KaneisAble]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

I think all of Gamecock nation would love for ANY of our QBs to be in that talk. As far as u realizing u were wrong...please don't negate the fact that he wasnt healthy this year....pretty much all year...so hopefully we will see next year

I don't mean to discount that at all. I just think there were tendencies he demonstrated last season (when he played great) that seemed to worsen this season. Again: that could be due to injury, regression, or a combo of the 2. I don't know how severe he's been hurt to chalk it up to one or the other. He made big plays when we needed them in the Outback Bowl, and for that I am grateful. I'm really not interested in bashing the kid at all.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by KaneisAble

I don't mean to discount that at all. I just think there were tendencies he demonstrated last season (when he played great) that seemed to worsen this season. Again: that could be due to injury, regression, or a combo of the 2. I don't know how severe he's been hurt to chalk it up to one or the other. He made big plays when we needed them in the Outback Bowl, and for that I am grateful. I'm really not interested in bashing the kid at all.

Touché

[me4USC]

Originally Posted by Don Giovanni

I find it somewhat funny the title of the thread mentions something ending, because the topic of which QB should start/play is the topic that never ends. It just goes on and on my friend. Some posters started posting it, and they knew what it was. Now we'll continue this thread on forever just because this is the topic that never ends. It just goes on and on my friend.

There is a reason you are The Godfather, oh wise one.

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Do u just read what u want to read or is it u just want to ignore the facts and think your opinion is better than facts? Please pay close attention and comprehend...this part was mentioned not once but twice...(LAST TIME HEALTHY). Sorry if u missed that part...but it's the same logic y'all were doing...taking stats from a certain time frame and multiplying them to play psychic and think it would repeat itself...but when u do it to benefit Connor...it's only for one game...can't go back but so far huh? BAHAHAHA hilarious!

OK...for the second time in as many posts on this topic...the discussion was about the Outback Bowl...the game with Michigan...the game played two days ago. My comment was, "We know what Connor did between those two TD passes." You keep trying to skew things by posting numbers from a year ago, but that doesn't matter...NOT ONE BIT! A healthy Connor Shaw wasn't an option. A Connor Shaw healthy enough to finish the game apparently wasn't an option either. The REASON I don't go back is that those stats you quote simply do not apply here, in this game, played two days ago. You are trying to skew things because you cannot argue your stance (ie, ubwrong) by trying change the parameters of this discussion and comparing apples to oranges.

Face it bud...you are wrong. The stats you use do not apply here. The game has been played and your opinions (your so called 'facts') have been weighed, measured, and found lacking. Try staying on topic and let's see what numbers you can produce. What numbers you'll try skewing and spinning.

I understand that spinning and skewing is all that you have b/c your argument is wrong, but, we're not going to accept that bs. It's time you started producing some relevant facts here instead of just claiming to do so.

[cockycock10]

Originally Posted by FanofCarolina1

Shaw is definitely a Warrior, but I don't think we'll EVER see Dylan try to run on a 3rd and 24.

Did you not see him convert the 3/20 or 4/20 in the Clemson game?

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

OK...for the second time in as many posts on this topic...the discussion was about the Outback Bowl...the game with Michigan...the game played two days ago. My comment was, "We know what Connor did between those two TD passes." You keep trying to skew things by posting numbers from a year ago, but that doesn't matter...NOT ONE BIT! A healthy Connor Shaw wasn't an option. A Connor Shaw healthy enough to finish the game apparently wasn't an option either. The REASON I don't go back is that those stats you quote simply do not apply here, in this game, played two days ago. You are trying to skew things because you cannot argue your stance (ie, ubwrong) by trying change the parameters of this discussion and comparing apples to oranges.

Face it bud...you are wrong. The stats you use do not apply here. The game has been played and your opinions (your so called 'facts') have been weighed, measured, and found lacking. Try staying on topic and let's see what numbers you can produce. What numbers you'll try skewing and spinning.

I understand that spinning and skewing is all that you have b/c your argument is wrong, but, we're not going to accept that bs. It's time you started producing some relevant facts here instead of just claiming to do so.

Actually "BUD"...you are wrong...I was actually responding to a post from rebel about the logic of using stats then multiplying them or stretching them to predict this is what it MIGHT have been IF he continued to play like he did for a certain period of time. Matter of fact...here is the post I was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel4ever
Shaw played well and made some keys passes. That said, if Dylan started and played the whole game, we'd have beat Michigan by 17-20 points. He shredded their defense the little time he played. Shaw had at least 4-5 wasted drives. Dylan none. Our offense is better and more efficient with Dylan leading.

I understand it started out about the Outback bowl but the last sentence in bold is a GENERAL statement insinuating that the offense in GENERAL (that word again...if u know what that means) is better with Dylan leading...not JUST the Outback bowl...but in GENERAL.

As far as me "skewing" and "spinning" the facts...as I have stated several times...there is a rating that experts came up with that takes statistical data and formulates it to form a QBR (QB rating) to determine how good a QB is. There is no "skewing" this number "spinning" it...nor changing the FACTS that Connor has better stats and a better QBR even though he played tougher D's this year and even though the FACT that he has been injured most of the year (pretty much all year)...but I am sure you will try to find a way to "spin" it or "skew" it like u CLAIM I do...or merely just try to make excuses for why Connors is better...but still the fact are facts...Connors is better!

And again...to prove again that I am not the biased one...Dylan did have a better game in the Outback Bowl PER time played (the amount of time he was in there)...and guess what...the QBR shows that...but it took both to win and BOTH QBs played good. But my point is to try to play psychic and predict that he would play the same way for a longer period of time and put up much greater numbers than Connor is the part I don't understand...it makes no sense...but if u want to use that logic too then it could be used the same way to show the way Connor ended the year last year if you stretch it or multiply it out by time played like u did with Dylan...then Connor...when healthy...could put up numbers comparable to the last 2 yrs heisman winners. FACT!

If those FACTS aren't relevant enough...try another hobby...like join a local bridge club or take up sewing...bc college football isn't the place for u if you can't see the actual FACTS!

[me4USC]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

.

Face it bud...you are wrong. The stats you use do not apply here. The game has been played and your opinions (your so called 'facts') have been weighed, measured, and found lacking.

I like it. It's Scriptural, too. MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.' Daniel 5:25-27

26 “Here is what these words mean:
Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.
27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
28 Peres: Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”

Watch out. The dividing of football kingdom may be imminent.

[me4USC]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

If those FACTS aren't relevant enough...try another hobby...like join a local bridge club or take up sewing...bc college football isn't the place for u if you can't see the actual FACTS!

I know you didn't just go there. When people are right, they present their arguments and let them speak for themselves. They feel no need to attack another poster.

I am learning more about the game itself from cocky2001 than from anyone else. He never talks down to me, though his knowledge far outweighs mine. He explains things in a rational manner and does not intimate that I am stupid or should take up a different pastime. I'm thinking that his knowledge exceeds yours by quite a bit as well. At least I know my limitations.

[Cocky2001]

What a shocker! You are wrong AGAIN! I wish that I could action on this in Vegas...but they aren't that stupid or reckless with their money.

I posted this in response to Dizzy01's post...It is clear to most English reading people that we are talking about the Outback Bowl.

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

That's not the argument being made. We know what CS did between the two touch down passes. We don't need a crystal ball or to conjure Nostradamus from the dead, we have the game tape. In the 12 or so plays that Dylan was in there he threw the 70-something yard pass to Jones, two TD passes, one pass through the hands of the receiver in the end zone and another that ricocheted off the helmet of the receiver in the end zone (and then we missed the FG.

Fact is...DT was moving the offense better in the bowl game. We know what CS did...it is in the books and fact...we can only speculate what DT would have done, but based on the facts of what he did do, it isn't rocket surgery. Had Dylan simply played the remainder of the game the way that he had played thus far in the game we would have routed them. And no one can argue that without speculating.

Then you quote that post and start spinning and skewing offering this as a 'response'...

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Oh ok...I see...so if Connor plays like he did the last 3 games last year...(last time he played that he was 100% healthy)...and you take his averages and spread them out through 13 games...then he would end up with this...
74.54% 2847yds 35TD 4Int 219.64Qbr 1040rushingyds 13tdsrushing

Now if you take this and compare them to the Heisman winner this year...

68.3% 3419yds 24TD 8Int 155.9Qbr 1181rushingyds 19tdsrushing

And last years heisman winner...

72.4% 4293yds 37TD 6Int 189.5Qbr 699rushingyds 10tdsrushing


So as you can see...Connor's numbers the last 3 games of last year...(last time healthy)...it was similar to Heisman numbers...just going by YOUR logic....so is it safe to say that next year if Connor is healthy...he could be a Heisman candidate?

Since you are so BLATANTLY WRONG in the first sentence of you latest (garbage, bs, rant, etc) post, I didn't bother reading past the first sentence. You can continue trying to twist, bend, skew, spin things to your suit your opinion, but you continue to be wrong and that will continue to be exposed.

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Actually "BUD"...you are wrong...I was actually responding to a post from rebel about the logic of using stats then multiplying them or stretching them to predict this is what it MIGHT have been IF he continued to play like he did for a certain period of time. Matter of fact...here is the post I was responding to:

Then why quote me?

Why not quote rebel?

Because you are lying and you are caught. You're not very good at this.

[me4USC]

nm

[Cocky2001]

Originally Posted by me4USC

I know you didn't just go there. When people are right, they present their arguments and let them speak for themselves. They feel no need to attack another poster.

I am learning more about the game itself from cocky2001 than from anyone else. He never talks down to me, though his knowledge far outweighs mine. He explains things in a rational manner and does not intimate that I am stupid or should take up a different pastime. I'm thinking that his knowledge exceeds yours by quite a bit as well. At least I know my limitations.

Thanks for the props...I had to look for that quote...we all know why he wants me to go away...I keep exposing his lies and mistruths.

[cockyguitar]

Originally Posted by Carolina4Life

Dylan won that game for us yesterday. No way Shaw would have threw that ball to Bruce. IMOP

Dylan wouldn't of made that throw if Shaw didn't convert that 4th down throw to Ace. I like both QBs though. I'd be perfectly fine running a 2 QB system next year. Let Dylan start the non conference games and let Shaw start the SEC games w/ Dylan ready to step in if Shaw goes down or if we just need a spark.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by me4USC

I know you didn't just go there. When people are right, they present their arguments and let them speak for themselves. They feel no need to attack another poster.

I am learning more about the game itself from cocky2001 than from anyone else. He never talks down to me, though his knowledge far outweighs mine. He explains things in a rational manner and does not intimate that I am stupid or should take up a different pastime. I'm thinking that his knowledge exceeds yours by quite a bit as well. At least I know my limitations.

I not attacking anybody me4...just responding to someone's post with my opinions. Did u not happen to see the parts where he said what I was saying was WRONG and BS? That is his opinion and I just simply gave him mine. And just one more thing...if u agree with his opinions doesn't mean he has more football knowledge...I'm glad u are learning from someone...but you don't know me any more than I know you so try not to assume someone knows the game more than someone you don't know anything about