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Old 01-04-2013, 01:39 AM   #1
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Default Future of the Zone Read?

So - I've been wondering about the future of the zone read in our offense. Since Connor got hurt, we started really pulling back on the amount we let him run (and when Thompson had to step in, we ran it even less).

This'll be Shaw's last year, and even assuming he gets back to the 2011 form with regards to running, I'm wondering if the offense will begin to phase a bit away from the QB as a running threat. Thompson is the heir apparent for the year after that (and who can say if Nosovitch or Mitch will win the job after that).

What do you think? Will we stay with the Zone Read moving forward, or will the offense move back towards the 50/50 split of Shotgun and I-Form we saw at the end of the 2010 season?
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Nosovitch and Mitch can both run....Thompson is more mobile than many realize...I like a mobile QB,BUT it shouldn't be the heart of our running game..we gotta put those OL/RB's to work this off season.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

I have mentioned this in other threads...not so much from a QB perspective, but moreso from the RB's view. I agree with diesel, it shouldn't be the main emphasis of our running game or we're going to need 3 or 4 QB's ready to start and play at any given time. With the RBs we now have, Wilds had a good bit of success running this last season. Kenny Miles is on again/off again with it...he is gone so it doesn't really matter...but he was on fire for us until Latti got here. I just don't know if Carson or Davis will excel in this...

Another thing is the OL...We have the personnel to blow people off the ball...but we never seem to do it. We have been using position blocking way too much and it has taught our guys bad habits. We need to get back to moving people in our way down field. 'Bama does it, Florida does it...why not us? Besides, you can't position block on 4th and 1.

It will be interesting to watch this.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:43 AM   #4
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Default

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Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
I have mentioned this in other threads...not so much from a QB perspective, but moreso from the RB's view. I agree with diesel, it shouldn't be the main emphasis of our running game or we're going to need 3 or 4 QB's ready to start and play at any given time. With the RBs we now have, Wilds had a good bit of success running this last season. Kenny Miles is on again/off again with it...he is gone so it doesn't really matter...but he was on fire for us until Latti got here. I just don't know if Carson or Davis will excel in this...

Another thing is the OL...We have the personnel to blow people off the ball...but we never seem to do it. We have been using position blocking way too much and it has taught our guys bad habits. We need to get back to moving people in our way down field. 'Bama does it, Florida does it...why not us? Besides, you can't position block on 4th and 1.

It will be interesting to watch this.
Great post.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

The zone read may have taken us as far as it could. I trust the coaches will do what's best for the team and use our lineman and rb's the best way going forward. I honestly think we will be a much better passing team next year and this could help us move more toward a more conventional running game.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

The question is is our OL good enough to power run on the good SEC defenses (Florida, Bama, LSU, etc). I have my doubts currently.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Our likely 2014 class QB is a dual threat so it seems we'll continue to recruit for the system.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocky2001 View Post
I have mentioned this in other threads...not so much from a QB perspective, but moreso from the RB's view. I agree with diesel, it shouldn't be the main emphasis of our running game or we're going to need 3 or 4 QB's ready to start and play at any given time. With the RBs we now have, Wilds had a good bit of success running this last season. Kenny Miles is on again/off again with it...he is gone so it doesn't really matter...but he was on fire for us until Latti got here. I just don't know if Carson or Davis will excel in this...

Another thing is the OL...We have the personnel to blow people off the ball...but we never seem to do it. We have been using position blocking way too much and it has taught our guys bad habits. We need to get back to moving people in our way down field. 'Bama does it, Florida does it...why not us? Besides, you can't position block on 4th and 1.

It will be interesting to watch this.
I couldn't agree more about this point.

One thing about our offensive shotgun run plays, we rarely actually run zone reads. Many times it is a predetermined give. I also hate, that we majority of the time only run base zone concepts from shotgun, no man-on-man with pulls blocking schemes. You can run the zone read with an aggressive attitude, if you choose to. Spurrier has always been more of a zone, draw, run game, which is too soft for my liking.

I really wish we'd do more reads where you pull the GT and make the slot WR a pitch man for the QB. This is a great way to get guys with the ball in space, especially with guys like Ace, Bruce, all our RB (if they were in the slot). You see teams like Oregon run this pitch concept a lot. That doesn't mean we shouldn't run the ball from the I or have traditional run game, just think you need to be able to do both from any set.

Dylan is a better runner than given credit for. I think, in today's game, any college QB should be a good enough runner to get you 5-10 yards on a pull read. If not, they better be one hell of a passer.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Comments...
-zone-read is a play, not an offense. Inside and outside zone are also plays...they look similar to the zone-read when running, but are just hand-offs.

-zone blocking is a scheme and may or may not be what's used for a play

-Bama has guys who can break tackles...as does LSU. They are all 215 lbs. +. That's what we need...bigger guys who can pound the rock

-we need an RB who can break tackles in our offense...we've only had a few since SOS has been here and Brandon Wilds is one of them.

-not all RBs do well with zone plays...they have to read and react....Marcus was exceptional at this because of his vision. Kenny struggled with this, while Brian Maddox was a good zone runner in '10. Cory Boyd did well with zone plays in the CFL. Brandon seems to have it.

-zone-read and inside/outside zone plays and zone blocking are not going away....check the Redskins and Mike Shanahan who has made a living off of it. They are in the play-offs with a rookie QB...as is 2 other teams.

-most of our OL problems are mental...we still have guys missing blocks and missing out on stunts or blitzes...this is where Marcus was good...he could evade some of those initial tacklers and still get to the 2nd level.
We may have to play some guys that are less physical in order to have better blocking...hope Shawn works on this off-season.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

You'll never really see the zone read go away as long as Elliott and Mangus are here. They'll just balance how much they use it depending on who is at QB.

With Thompson and Mitch, you would see less. With Shaw and Nosovitch, you would see more.

For future conversation, if USC got Barker in 2014, a guy like Kevin Johnson in 2015, and Avery McCall in 2016 .. you would see more ZR with Barker and less with Johnson and McCall.

It really just depends on who is at QB.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameout12 View Post
Comments...
-zone-read is a play, not an offense. Inside and outside zone are also plays...they look similar to the zone-read when running, but are just hand-offs.

-zone blocking is a scheme and may or may not be what's used for a play

-Bama has guys who can break tackles...as does LSU. They are all 215 lbs. +. That's what we need...bigger guys who can pound the rock

-we need an RB who can break tackles in our offense...we've only had a few since SOS has been here and Brandon Wilds is one of them.

-not all RBs do well with zone plays...they have to read and react....Marcus was exceptional at this because of his vision. Kenny struggled with this, while Brian Maddox was a good zone runner in '10. Cory Boyd did well with zone plays in the CFL. Brandon seems to have it.

-zone-read and inside/outside zone plays and zone blocking are not going away....check the Redskins and Mike Shanahan who has made a living off of it. They are in the play-offs with a rookie QB...as is 2 other teams.

-most of our OL problems are mental...we still have guys missing blocks and missing out on stunts or blitzes...this is where Marcus was good...he could evade some of those initial tacklers and still get to the 2nd level.
We may have to play some guys that are less physical in order to have better blocking...hope Shawn works on this off-season.
Well said. The zone blocking can be very effective when done properly and it doesn't require the QB to be a runner. The Shannahan's are doing it now with RG3 but this is the same philosophy used in Denver with Elway and he rarely was a runner.

The main thing is getting the oline to understand their assignments which was a major issue in the bowl game.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Great posts by everyone on this thread, very detailed and informative.
I just wanted to add that the zone-read makes up for an average offensive line, as it allows the linemen to only worry about blocking the guy in front of them. They leave a defensive end unguarded, creating the one on one matchups, allowing the QB to determine the direction of the play. With our young and inexperience offensive line, the zone-read has been very helpful in allowing them to adapt to SEC play.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Zone read is an incredibly successful play within the right situation.

I agree that as long as Elliott's here we'll see it in some form in our arsenal.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

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Originally Posted by Acockolypse Now View Post
Zone read is an incredibly successful play within the right situation.

I agree that as long as Elliott's here we'll see it in some form in our arsenal.
elliot was brought in for the purpose of running the zone read.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

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Originally Posted by johnmcclane View Post
elliot was brought in for the purpose of running the zone read.
Elliot has defeated Michigan twice now with the zone read.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flameout12 View Post
Comments...
-zone-read is a play, not an offense. Inside and outside zone are also plays...they look similar to the zone-read when running, but are just hand-offs.

-zone blocking is a scheme and may or may not be what's used for a play

-Bama has guys who can break tackles...as does LSU. They are all 215 lbs. +. That's what we need...bigger guys who can pound the rock

-we need an RB who can break tackles in our offense...we've only had a few since SOS has been here and Brandon Wilds is one of them.

-not all RBs do well with zone plays...they have to read and react....Marcus was exceptional at this because of his vision. Kenny struggled with this, while Brian Maddox was a good zone runner in '10. Cory Boyd did well with zone plays in the CFL. Brandon seems to have it.

-zone-read and inside/outside zone plays and zone blocking are not going away....check the Redskins and Mike Shanahan who has made a living off of it. They are in the play-offs with a rookie QB...as is 2 other teams.

-most of our OL problems are mental...we still have guys missing blocks and missing out on stunts or blitzes...this is where Marcus was good...he could evade some of those initial tacklers and still get to the 2nd level.
We may have to play some guys that are less physical in order to have better blocking...hope Shawn works on this off-season.
Well posted. Just like there are variations of a "Zone Read" running play, there are also variations of "Zone Blocking" as well. I think most of our OL issues are our particular Zone Blocking plan. I'd like to see us go more toward Oregons implementation. As far as the pros go, especially RG3, it's been speculated that Shanahan is using that until he brings him more along in the traditional pro style. Pros are different than college, more years to play against higher level defenses.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcclane View Post
elliot was brought in for the purpose of running the zone read.
Shawn was brought here because he was a highly successful OL coach at ASU and we desperately needed him. We ran the zone-read before he got here (GA Mangus). Shawn brought the zone blocking and the inside/outside zone plays or worked them in with GA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150harley View Post
Elliot has defeated Michigan twice now with the zone read.
We beat UM with lots of passing and big plays. Zone read was minimal to the effort. Unfortunately the one big zone-read play that Connor had, never got us any pts.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

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Originally Posted by Jwilson View Post
Well posted. Just like there are variations of a "Zone Read" running play....
Yea...Oregon is one team that probably has more variations and it's hard to tell what they are running...zone-read is so similar to the old veer option as well as the single wing. Just didn't run the veer from the gun...not sure you can.
You can run triple option off the zone-read as well...just add a trailing back/slot guy...we ran something like this near the end of '09.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
You'll never really see the zone read go away as long as Elliott and Mangus are here. They'll just balance how much they use it depending on who is at QB.

With Thompson and Mitch, you would see less. With Shaw and Nosovitch, you would see more.

For future conversation, if USC got Barker in 2014, a guy like Kevin Johnson in 2015, and Avery McCall in 2016 .. you would see more ZR with Barker and less with Johnson and McCall.

It really just depends on who is at QB.

Yeah - this is more or less what I was thinking would happen (Although I'm surprised to hear Mangus is a driving force, Elliott I would expect, though). I also recognize that the Zone Read is a play and not an offense, but it does color our conventional offense heavily (For example, it's probably the reason we take 85% of our snaps in shotgun).

I'd definitely like the Zone-Read to stick around, I'm just not sure how much.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Future of the Zone Read?

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(For example, it's probably the reason we take 85% of our snaps in shotgun).
Not really....we never ran it when Blake Mitchell was here...how much were we in the gun then?
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