Shaw vs. Michigan

[usc1]

18/26 224 yds 2 TD 0 INT, 10 carries 96 yds


Remind me again why he shouldn't be our QB next year?


I'm a believer in Dylan Thompson but the fact that he threw the gamewinning TD pass has overshadowed what Shaw accomplished on the field against Michigan and skewed some people's perceptions of the 2 QBs.

I hope we see both play next year because both are good QB's, but to suggest Shaw shouldn't be our QB or should switch positions after his performance is a little rediculous IMO.

[Cocky_Knight]

Awesome stats

[catdaddy66]

I am sold on Connor Shaw! Want him to start til he graduates, but am happy Dylan Thompson covers our garnet a$$ when needed! Let the HBC and staff shake out the lineup for game days and we as fans can enjoy the results.

[Cocky2001]

Why didn't you put this in one of the 40 other threads addressing this topic?

Countdown to deletion in 5, 4, ...

[me4USC]

Originally Posted by Cocky2001

Why didn't you put this in one of the 40 other threads addressing this topic?

Countdown to deletion in 5, 4, ...

Amen! My vote is that anyone who thinks there should be an open contest between the two, or who thinks Thompson should be the starter, should just stay off the thread and let these guys talk to each other.

[militarymind17]

Originally Posted by usc1

18/26 224 yds 2 TD 0 INT, 10 carries 96 yds


Remind me again why he shouldn't be our QB next year?


I'm a believer in Dylan Thompson but the fact that he threw the gamewinning TD pass has overshadowed what Shaw accomplished on the field against Michigan and skewed some people's perceptions of the 2 QBs.

I hope we see both play next year because both are good QB's, but to suggest Shaw shouldn't be our QB or should switch positions after his performance is a little rediculous IMO.

Amen!!

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by usc1

18/26 224 yds 2 TD 0 INT, 10 carries 96 yds


Remind me again why he shouldn't be our QB next year?


I'm a believer in Dylan Thompson but the fact that he threw the gamewinning TD pass has overshadowed what Shaw accomplished on the field against Michigan and skewed some people's perceptions of the 2 QBs.

I hope we see both play next year because both are good QB's, but to suggest Shaw shouldn't be our QB or should switch positions after his performance is a little rediculous IMO.

Couldn't agree more...but he is supposed to have surgery on his foot today & SOS isn't expecting him back for the Spring...but I am with u...Connor has done a great job the past 2 years & hasn't done anything to lose his starting job...but I am all for who SOS picks...and who he thinks gives us the best chance to win

[cockfight21]

Start Shaw and spell him with Dylan.

[scfanohio]

It's going to be a long offseason.

[Carolina_Harv]

Originally Posted by scfanohio

It's going to be a long offseason.

Better hope our basketball team makes some noise or our baseball team goes deep in the tourney again this year or it will be an extremely long offseason.

[Don Giovanni]

Well, I guess I'll contribute to this thread on the subject too. I mean apparently this is all that's going to be discussed, so if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Anyway, using stats as the weapon, Thompson was 7/10 for 117 yards. So if one were to look at the yards per completion, Shaw ended up with 12.56 ypc and Thompson had 16.71 ypc.

Let's now look at completion percentage. Shaw ended his day with a good percentage, 69.23%, and Thompson completed 70% of his passes.

If we go a step farther and look at the percentage of TDs thrown by total passes attempted by each and then passes completed, Shaw's TD percentages were 7.69% (total attempts) and 11.1% (completions). Compare that with Thompson's percentages of 20% (total) and 28.57% (completions), and we see Thompson outperformed Shaw here as well.

Now let's make the final adjustment. Since Thompson completed 70% of his passes and 28.57% of those were TDs, we can reasonably deduce that if Thompson had been the starter and the same number of total passing plays had been called (36), he would have ended up with the following numbers: 25/36 for 418 yards and 7 TDs, so I think the choice is clear. Don't we just love statistics?!

[Don Giovanni]

Originally Posted by Don Giovanni

Well, I guess I'll contribute to this thread on the subject too. I mean apparently this is all that's going to be discussed, so if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Anyway, using stats as the weapon, Thompson was 7/10 for 117 yards. So if one were to look at the yards per completion, Shaw ended up with 12.56 ypc and Thompson had 16.71 ypc.

Let's now look at completion percentage. Shaw ended his day with a good percentage, 69.23%, and Thompson completed 70% of his passes.

If we go a step farther and look at the percentage of TDs thrown by total passes attempted by each and then passes completed, Shaw's TD percentages were 7.69% (total attempts) and 11.1% (completions). Compare that with Thompson's percentages of 20% (total) and 28.57% (completions), and we see Thompson outperformed Shaw here as well.

Now let's make the final adjustment. Since Thompson completed 70% of his passes and 28.57% of those were TDs, we can reasonably deduce that if Thompson had been the starter and the same number of total passing plays had been called (36), he would have ended up with the following numbers: 25/36 for 418 yards and 7 TDs, so I think the choice is clear. Don't we just love statistics?!

I guess I should've addressed the rushing numbers too, but I'll just give Shaw the edge in that department.

[LakeMonticelloCock]

Saw on twitter that Shaw is only about 350 yds away from being the school's all time leading rusher for a QB(passing Grantz)

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Don Giovanni

Well, I guess I'll contribute to this thread on the subject too. I mean apparently this is all that's going to be discussed, so if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Anyway, using stats as the weapon, Thompson was 7/10 for 117 yards. So if one were to look at the yards per completion, Shaw ended up with 12.56 ypc and Thompson had 16.71 ypc.

Let's now look at completion percentage. Shaw ended his day with a good percentage, 69.23%, and Thompson completed 70% of his passes.

If we go a step farther and look at the percentage of TDs thrown by each total passes attempted by each and then passes completed, Shaw's TD percentages were 7.69% (total attempts) and 11.1% (completions). Compare that with Thompson's percentages of 20% (total) and 28.57% (completions), and we see Thompson outperformed Shaw here as well.

Now let's make the final adjustment. Since Thompson completed 70% of his passes and 28.57% of those were TDs, we can reasonably deduce that if Thompson had been the starter and the same number of total passing plays had been called (36), he would have ended up with the following numbers: 25/36 for 418 yards and 7 TDs, so I think the choice is clear. Don't we just love statistics?!

I tried to show this on another thread and got fussed at for mentioning it bc they were Dylan fans and didnt want to hear it...but I will give it another go since we are talking about who should start next year. While I don't agree with multiplying stats and stretching them...bc it's highly unlikely a player is gonna play the exact same way the entire game...but to entertain the same logic...does it make sense to you to say that the last 3 games of last year...(last time he played that he was 100% healthy)...and you take his averages and spread them out through 13 games...then he would end up with this...
74.54% 2847yds 35TD 4Int 219.64Qbr 1040rushingyds 13tdsrushing

Now if you take this and compare them to the Heisman winner this year...

68.3% 3419yds 24TD 8Int 155.9Qbr 1181rushingyds 19tdsrushing

And last years heisman winner...

72.4% 4293yds 37TD 6Int 189.5Qbr 699rushingyds 10tdsrushing


So Connor's numbers the last 3 games of last year...(last time healthy)...it was similar to Heisman numbers...just going by YOUR logic....so to use that style of stats...Dylan was very impressive in that game...but how about Connor if he does the same way he did last time he was healthy?

[2000grad]

And Shaw basically didn't play 3 games

[Spurticus]

If Dylan Thompson starts next season I'm happy with that, and happy
for Dylan. He'll have been given that job because Spurrier would think
he'd give us the best shot at winning games. Shaw as a #2 guy sounds
like a winning combination.

If Shaw starts next season then I'm happy with that, and happy for Shaw.
He'll have been given that job because Spurrier would think he'd give us
the best shot at winning games. Dylan as a #2 guy worked out pretty
good this year, I have no reason to doubt it will continue to work out well.

My personal feeling:
Shaw stepped into (or should I say got thrown into) a situation almost two
years ago that a lot of QBs could not have handled well. He came in
guns blazing, led this team to 6 wins out of 7 games including a win over
Clemson and a well executed game against Nebraska in our bowl game
that year.
As a starter playing hurt this year, his "WILL" won the Vanderbilt game
to start the year out. He could bearly lift his arm, but when Dylan choked
his only time this year as a field General, Shaw came back out on the field
and led the offense down the field for a winning score. It cost him dearly
for pretty much the first half of the year. With the hurt back and then
getting a bum foot for the last half of the season all he did was go 10-2
as a starter and again, what time he was able to play, he executed several
drives resulting in big plays and ended up winning as the starter in another
bowl game over a very good Michigan team.

I don't have an issue with the better of our two QBs starting, but from
a personal favorite view, Shaw deserves to be the starter of the team
simply because of the state this program was in when he took over, and
where it is now because of what he's done since he got the job. I won't
ever look for flaws in Dylan's game to make Shaw look more impressive
as "The Guy Who Should Start" ... and I'll be damned If I would readily
throw Connor asside after what he's done for this program the last two
years.

[Tailfeathers]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

I tried to show this on another thread and got fussed at for mentioning it bc they were Dylan fans and didnt want to hear it...but I will give it another go since we are talking about who should start next year. While I don't agree with multiplying stats and stretching them...bc it's highly unlikely a player is gonna play the exact same way the entire game...but to entertain the same logic...does it make sense to you to say that the last 3 games of last year...(last time he played that he was 100% healthy)...and you take his averages and spread them out through 13 games...then he would end up with this...
74.54% 2847yds 35TD 4Int 219.64Qbr 1040rushingyds 13tdsrushing

Now if you take this and compare them to the Heisman winner this year...

68.3% 3419yds 24TD 8Int 155.9Qbr 1181rushingyds 19tdsrushing

And last years heisman winner...

72.4% 4293yds 37TD 6Int 189.5Qbr 699rushingyds 10tdsrushing


So Connor's numbers the last 3 games of last year...(last time healthy)...it was similar to Heisman numbers...just going by YOUR logic....so to use that style of stats...Dylan was very impressive in that game...but how about Connor if he does the same way he did last time he was healthy?

I think Don, while presenting inarguable stats, also hinted stats don't tell the whole story, hence his last sentence.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Spurticus

If Dylan Thompson starts next season I'm happy with that, and happy
for Dylan. He'll have been given that job because Spurrier would think
he'd give us the best shot at winning games. Shaw as a #2 guy sounds
like a winning combination.

If Shaw starts next season then I'm happy with that, and happy for Shaw.
He'll have been given that job because Spurrier would think he'd give us
the best shot at winning games. Dylan as a #2 guy worked out pretty
good this year, I have no reason to doubt it will continue to work out well.

My personal feeling:
Shaw stepped into (or should I say got thrown into) a situation almost two
years ago that a lot of QBs could not have handled well. He came in
guns blazing, led this team to 6 wins out of 7 games including a win over
Clemson and a well executed game against Nebraska in our bowl game
that year.
As a starter playing hurt this year, his "WILL" won the Vanderbilt game
to start the year out. He could bearly lift his arm, but when Dylan choked
his only time this year as a field General, Shaw came back out on the field
and led the offense down the field for a winning score. It cost him dearly
for pretty much the first half of the year. With the hurt back and then
getting a bum foot for the last half of the season all he did was go 10-2
as a starter and again, what time he was able to play, he executed several
drives resulting in big plays and ended up winning as the starter in another
bowl game over a very good Michigan team.

I don't have an issue with the better of our two QBs starting, but from
a personal favorite view, Shaw deserves to be the starter of the team
simply because of the state this program was in when he took over, and
where it is now because of what he's done since he got the job. I won't
ever look for flaws in Dylan's game to make Shaw look more impressive
as "The Guy Who Should Start" ... and I'll be damned If I would readily
throw Connor asside after what he's done for this program the last two
years.

As usual...very well said Spurt!

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Tailfeathers

I think Don, while presenting inarguable stats, also hinted stats don't tell the whole story, hence his last sentence.

I agree...stats don't tell the whole story...especially made up stats...but the actual stats are facts...and tells the truth on how good a player...or QB in this situation...did...or has done

[Don Giovanni]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

I tried to show this on another thread and got fussed at for mentioning it bc they were Dylan fans and didnt want to hear it...but I will give it another go since we are talking about who should start next year. While I don't agree with multiplying stats and stretching them...bc it's highly unlikely a player is gonna play the exact same way the entire game...but to entertain the same logic...does it make sense to you to say that the last 3 games of last year...(last time he played that he was 100% healthy)...and you take his averages and spread them out through 13 games...then he would end up with this...
74.54% 2847yds 35TD 4Int 219.64Qbr 1040rushingyds 13tdsrushing

Now if you take this and compare them to the Heisman winner this year...

68.3% 3419yds 24TD 8Int 155.9Qbr 1181rushingyds 19tdsrushing

And last years heisman winner...

72.4% 4293yds 37TD 6Int 189.5Qbr 699rushingyds 10tdsrushing


So Connor's numbers the last 3 games of last year...(last time healthy)...it was similar to Heisman numbers...just going by YOUR logic....so to use that style of stats...Dylan was very impressive in that game...but how about Connor if he does the same way he did last time he was healthy?

Ummm, I don't know how to break it to you, but I meant that post as a joke because of all the neverending back and forth on this subject. Statistics should never be the only thing used when making an argument, because they be spun far too easily.

And to try and stretch a statistic to prove a point may be the worst argument available. Look at it this way: a QB could start a series on his own 10 yard line, attempt six total passes (only pass plays called during the series), all of which are completed, with the last being a TD. He could then be brought in for a few more plays in which he only has the ball for designed QB runs and carries the ball 3 times for 33 yards and a TD. In both situations (both of which are completely realistic), the numbers would be really, really good, but if the total number of passes and QB runs called during the game ended up being 40 and 15 respectively, someone could make the argument that said QB should be the starter because his numbers would be 40/40 for 600, and he would also rush for 165 yards every game with every possession resulting in a TD.