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Old 01-09-2013, 12:44 PM   #16201
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

The two biggest things that will help our recruiting are as follows:

1. The demise of clempson

This includes any and everything that causes them grief, including the loss of Morris, Boyd, Hopkins, ec. When all this occurs, they need to start losing embarassing games again culminating in Dabo getting fired. His recruit sell is already losing some luster, evident by their defections this year. Rock bottom hits, then we rise based on not splitting the recruits we want with them like we do now.

2. Owning North Carolina (the state, not the school)

Tied to number 1, there is no SEC School in North Carolina, nor does it appear there will be any time soon. That alone should cause us to be a huge player in that state. If we got the main guys in SC and NC we wanted, supplemented with Georgia (the 4th state behind CA, TX and FL when it comes to highly rated recruits) and Florida, we would be regularly in the top 10.

Until those two things occur, this is about what we should expect.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #16202
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Default Re: Shaquille Wiggins Thread (2013 Prospect) - Georgia

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Originally Posted by SimpleGamecock View Post
I may be wrong but wasn't one of the reasons Brendan Langely flipped to UGA was to play with Wiggins?

My understanding is that Langly didn't have an offer from Georgia when he committed due to Georgia being filled up at the position. When a space came available Georgia offered him and he switched. He pretty much always wanted to go to Georgia so when he got a offer he jumped on it. Can't blame him for that since he grew up a Georgia fan.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #16203
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Default Re: Devarius Brunson Thread (2013 Prospect) - East Carolina

id say at least 3 or 4 or so. the lb from greenwood and booker from byrnes are prime examples this year.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #16204
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

I will take a coaching staff that actually assesses talent, character, and positions of need over coaches that see only stars (Dabo). Sure, Bama has 4 and 5 star players sitting on the bench waiting for there turn but that's Bama, they can weed out the bad apples and still be left with top tier talent across the board. But that doesn't mean that they can't be beat on the field on any given day.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #16205
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Default Re: Shaquille Wiggins Thread (2013 Prospect) - Georgia

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it was because he can play basketball at UGA as well
Would he not be able to do the same here?
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:54 PM   #16206
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Default Re: Shaquille Wiggins Thread (2013 Prospect) - Georgia

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Originally Posted by Coondog View Post
My understanding is that Langly didn't have an offer from Georgia when he committed due to Georgia being filled up at the position. When a space came available Georgia offered him and he switched. He pretty much always wanted to go to Georgia so when he got a offer he jumped on it. Can't blame him for that since he grew up a Georgia fan.

Gotcha and thanks JDRay as well. I just remember reading Shaq was on him pretty hard at one point. Would be nice to get Shaq to flip to USC.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:56 PM   #16207
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

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Originally Posted by trapper82 View Post
The two biggest things that will help our recruiting are as follows:

1. The demise of clempson

This includes any and everything that causes them grief, including the loss of Morris, Boyd, Hopkins, ec. When all this occurs, they need to start losing embarassing games again culminating in Dabo getting fired. His recruit sell is already losing some luster, evident by their defections this year. Rock bottom hits, then we rise based on not splitting the recruits we want with them like we do now.

2. Owning North Carolina (the state, not the school)

Tied to number 1, there is no SEC School in North Carolina, nor does it appear there will be any time soon. That alone should cause us to be a huge player in that state. If we got the main guys in SC and NC we wanted, supplemented with Georgia (the 4th state behind CA, TX and FL when it comes to highly rated recruits) and Florida, we would be regularly in the top 10.

Until those two things occur, this is about what we should expect.

True, those are achievable goals that would put the program on a long-term solid footing.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:59 PM   #16208
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Default Re: Shaquille Wiggins Thread (2013 Prospect) - Georgia

I think this is the one guy we can flip.
It sounds like he wants to come here...we just have to finish convincing him.
Maybe having teammate Alan Knott is helping.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:01 PM   #16209
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

The sky is falling!
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:02 PM   #16210
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Default Re: Tyrone Crowder Thread (2013 Prospect)

He will be at Clemson.
It sounds like that is where he wants to go, and he could be good under Caldwell (Caldwell is a good Oline coach)
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:59 PM   #16211
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

Look I know a lot of fans have/had this belief that if USC started winning 10 games, etc that recruits would just be beating down our doors. But the truth is, these fans are getting hit with reality. Its not just winning that counts. There are a handful of other variables such as demographics that either balance out or sometimes outweigh winning.

USC is in a tough spot but has been doing a very good job at getting what they have. The best thing that has happened to their recruiting, IMO, is the decline of Tennessee football. That school, not Georgia or Florida, is the biggest threat for USC because of the tradition that school has and the proximity to the state. USC winning lately against them under Spurrier, along with a little help from internal problems, has basically shut down the border to Tennessee and that has been a problem for them getting back to what they once were. They, like Alabama, had to recruit multiple states and regions (sometimes nationally) to get kids which was very easy to do when they were winning. But now you see what happens when the winning slows down, they are struggling and not nearly recruiting at the level they had been accustomed to. A large part of that has been because their state just doesn't produce much of anything so they don't have anything to fall back on or a "sure thing" so to speak.

If you look at Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, and A&M. 4 of those 5 schools have the richest recruiting grounds in the country in their backyard. All 4 of those schools are the only SEC school in their state. They are going to get who they want. It is a perfect storm. They are in the SEC, they have a long standing tradition and hardware, resources (including money) a plenty, and great school environments. They also, like USC, have great coaches and staffs full of great recruiters. USC doesn't have a lot of that so they need to improvise which is what they have been doing.

For USC to even dream about getting Top 5-10 classes yearly, they would need a few things to happen. First, the next Nick Saban-type coach needs to be coaching. A guy that not only is a terrific gameday coach but one that cares so much about recruiting and the team that it takes over his life. There aren't many guys out there like that that can do what Saban and even Urban Meyer do year in and year out. These guys like James Franklin, Hugh Freeze that are killing it right now are going to burn out if they don't find some sense of balance. Look at Urban Meyer, he just beat himself into the ground because he was too hands on. Saban is a rare breed, but you have to think his day is coming where he just falls apart. But anyway, the second thing that must happen is USC needs to win a championship with what they have. They need to have something that sticks out in the trophy room. Something where when they are going to the coaches office on official visits they pass and say 'it can be done'. Third, they need more big booster/doners to feed more money into the program. USC is doing the best it has ever done in that department so far but it needs to be sustained. The facilities are night and day, but they can still be better. They can not fall back again in the arms race. Fourth, the state of SC has got to start producing a deeper pool of high D1 prospects for multiple years. Not just a handful for a couple years and then a big group others. It has to be a steady stream. This is very unlikely.

And really the last thing. A little bit of luck. The stars have to align.

I know everyone expected top 10 classes galore, but its just something that'll take a lot of time and something out of the ordinary to happen before its even remotely reasonable to expect such. What Coach Spurrier and his staff have done has been admirable and who knows, there could be the next Nick Saban out there ready to take this job when it comes open. But its still going to take a perfect storm for USC to ever get to the level of the power 6.

Anyway, just my view on things. I'm sure others disagree.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:12 PM   #16212
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
Look I know a lot of fans have/had this belief that if USC started winning 10 games, etc that recruits would just be beating down our doors. But the truth is, these fans are getting hit with reality. Its not just winning that counts. There are a handful of other variables such as demographics that either balance out or sometimes outweigh winning.

USC is in a tough spot but has been doing a very good job at getting what they have. The best thing that has happened to their recruiting, IMO, is the decline of Tennessee football. That school, not Georgia or Florida, is the biggest threat for USC because of the tradition that school has and the proximity to the state. USC winning lately against them under Spurrier, along with a little help from internal problems, has basically shut down the border to Tennessee and that has been a problem for them getting back to what they once were. They, like Alabama, had to recruit multiple states and regions (sometimes nationally) to get kids which was very easy to do when they were winning. But now you see what happens when the winning slows down, they are struggling and not nearly recruiting at the level they had been accustomed to. A large part of that has been because their state just doesn't produce much of anything so they don't have anything to fall back on or a "sure thing" so to speak.

If you look at Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, and A&M. 4 of those 5 schools have the richest recruiting grounds in the country in their backyard. All 4 of those schools are the only SEC school in their state. They are going to get who they want. It is a perfect storm. They are in the SEC, they have a long standing tradition and hardware, resources (including money) a plenty, and great school environments. They also, like USC, have great coaches and staffs full of great recruiters. USC doesn't have a lot of that so they need to improvise which is what they have been doing.

For USC to even dream about getting Top 5-10 classes yearly, they would need a few things to happen. First, the next Nick Saban-type coach needs to be coaching. A guy that not only is a terrific gameday coach but one that cares so much about recruiting and the team that it takes over his life. There aren't many guys out there like that that can do what Saban and even Urban Meyer do year in and year out. These guys like James Franklin, Hugh Freeze that are killing it right now are going to burn out if they don't find some sense of balance. Look at Urban Meyer, he just beat himself into the ground because he was too hands on. Saban is a rare breed, but you have to think his day is coming where he just falls apart. But anyway, the second thing that must happen is USC needs to win a championship with what they have. They need to have something that sticks out in the trophy room. Something where when they are going to the coaches office on official visits they pass and say 'it can be done'. Third, they need more big booster/doners to feed more money into the program. USC is doing the best it has ever done in that department so far but it needs to be sustained. The facilities are night and day, but they can still be better. They can not fall back again in the arms race. Fourth, the state of SC has got to start producing a deeper pool of high D1 prospects for multiple years. Not just a handful for a couple years and then a big group others. It has to be a steady stream. This is very unlikely.

And really the last thing. A little bit of luck. The stars have to align.

I know everyone expected top 10 classes galore, but its just something that'll take a lot of time and something out of the ordinary to happen before its even remotely reasonable to expect such. What Coach Spurrier and his staff have done has been admirable and who knows, there could be the next Nick Saban out there ready to take this job when it comes open. But its still going to take a perfect storm for USC to ever get to the level of the power 6.

Anyway, just my view on things. I'm sure others disagree.

And as for the next Nick Saban comment, please let it be Charlie Strong!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:19 PM   #16213
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

There are a few assumptions I see from fans on recruiting issues that I don't think are accurate or helpful. One is that if you aren't getting a certain kid or kids, you just aren't trying hard enough. Many factors enter a player's decision, not just who "turns up the heat." Some players want playing time early and are diverted away by a strong group at or heading to a team. Others want extra control or demands from coaches the team might not want to cede - or lie about. Some players don't trend toward fitting the culture the coaches are developing, and there's lack of interest on both sides. Recruiting is more transparent and regulated now than ever before, but there is still a lot behind the scenes, under cover, and under-the-table. Trust the on-the-field results over time, make changes if that's not up to par, and be encouraged by off-the-field (discipline and academic) issues and let others crow about their "stars."
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:37 PM   #16214
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

And while I am at it, I'll address something else I know our fans keep complaining about year in and year out.

Clemson, and how do they do it.

Well the first thing Clemson has is probably the most impressionable coach in the country not named Nick Saban. We can make fun and give Dabo hell, but you will be hardpressed to find a better "living room" coach in the country outside of Saban than Dabo. He has a gift of being able to close the deal and win over families. Recruits really like him and connect well with him.

Second, they stuck gold when they got CJ Spiller out of the state of Florida. He has been their meal ticket to getting into every offensive player's door down there because of the type of career he had at Clemson. They marketed the hell out of him, then ESPN and national media caught on, and eventually that starts to make a difference when you are able to go into a recruit's living room and say "come be the next CJ". It works for a lot of kids. You are starting to see that with Marcus Lattimore. Look at USC's recruiting at RB since Lattimore jumped aboard, its gradually starting to get better and better and better. It should stay that way for the forseeable future even with a coaching change. You're going to start seeing it with Clowney now that USC is pretty much forced to market the hell out of him.

Lastly, Clemson within the past 15 years or so been mentioned as a SEC school in the ACC. They do have a lot of SEC-type resources and a really pretty campus to go along with strong academics. If you combine all of these things along with the type of offense they have, with a coach that is a really strong recruiter, and success with players that are "big" names from talent rich state such as Florida .. its a formula for strong recruiting classes going foward, and they'll continue to have strong classes unless they fall back to sub .500 records which doesn't look very likely right now.

I'm not going to address questionable tactics, money or bagmen and whatnot because it is hard to prove and they wouldn't be the only school that does such. I've heard some good stories from well connected people about these accusations and I have my own opinion which I will not be sharing.

Point is, I don't buy into this belief that Clemson outrecruits USC. I think both schools recruit about evenly as far as ratings, and both get their share of impact players which is impressive given that they share a state that doesn't produce nearly the quantity of prospects as their competitors. I think some of the personnel decisions as far as what position to recruit more of is different. I think USC is now more focus about the LOS and Clemson with the skill positions, but I think that has more to do with the conference each plays in.

I ask that everyone keep the smack out of this thread after this post because I know its coming after reading this
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:14 PM   #16215
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

Does Rivals have a monopoly on recruiting analysis and wisdom? Has there been a study that anyone can link to show that any one recruiting service is more accurate than the others? If you look at Rivals, Scout, 247 and ESPN, we have more than a handful of 4 star commitments. In fact, we have 12 four star commitments. And that does not include Gerald Turner who mysteriously was downgraded from 4 stars to 3 stars by Rivals. He had one whale of a Shrine Bowl game. So, maybe he will be upgraded. Who knows? Rivals does rank him as a high 3 star at 5.7. I won't complain. Alabama's 2 starting guards were both rated 3 stars by Rivals at 5.7. In fact, Scout, 247 and ESPN, as well as Rivals, rated Alabama's two starting offensive guards as 3 stars.

If you predicted Carolina's 2012 record based on their recruiting rankings, we should have gone 7-5 during the regular season, losing to LSU, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and Clemson. If you predicted the outcome of the Outback based on recruiting rankings, we should have lost to Michigan, as well.

Either our coaches are better evaluators than others or we do a better job of developing players or we do a better job of game day coaching than the others. We will have a difficult time outrecruiting schools situated in bigger states or have a stronger tradition. To me, the key has always been to get ENOUGH QUALITY players for our coaches to coach up. If we do that with this coaching staff, we will always be fine.

A couple of other points I'll make. There are not USUALLY more than 10-12 seniors in a starting lineup. And usually only about 15 players from one class make contributions during their career. I will remind you that I count 12 four star commitments among our players. And we are not done yet.

The other point I'll make is that, in my opinion, the most important positions on a football team are the offensive and defensive lines and quarterback. If you recruit well at those positions, you will win lots of games.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #16216
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Default A question about 247 recruiting site:

I noticed that they have what they call "Composite" rankings. Are they taking an average of the various sites rankings to come up with this?

Also, I know that Rivals will update their player rankings soon. Does Scout, ESPN and 247 update theirs as well? I ask that because I noticed earlier in the year, Scout had Connor Mitch rated as a 3 star. But Rivals, 247 and ESPN all had him rated as a 4 star. From what i read, Mitch had a great year this past season. If Scout updates their ratings, I'm sure he would be a strong candidate for an upgrade.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:42 PM   #16217
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

Its a simple equation.

When we win championships (notice plural "s"), we will be able to recruit as a fairly consistent top 10 each year.

Its all about shiny objects, and we have few. When we start winning the SEC and start being in the national discussion, then it would be realistic to think that we could recruit like Bama, Texas, etc.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:49 PM   #16218
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Default Re: "Big time" wide receiver recruits at South Carolina.

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Originally Posted by CoverTwo View Post
Disagree because Recruiting Coordinator isn't what people think it is. Bubba has evaluated and brought in better talent recently.

Also our QB play and OL play contributed to a lot of our struggles with the receivers. Couldn't get them the ball like Mitchell did.

But look at what happens when we have guys that will give Bubba's group a chance, they make plays. BIG plays.

I think Jr is a better receivers coach than most give him credit for.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:59 PM   #16219
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Default Re: Recruiting....Why aren't we getting better higher rated players?

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Look I know a lot of fans have/had this belief that if USC started winning 10 games, etc that recruits would just be beating down our doors. But the truth is, these fans are getting hit with reality. Its not just winning that counts. There are a handful of other variables such as demographics that either balance out or sometimes outweigh winning.

USC is in a tough spot but has been doing a very good job at getting what they have. The best thing that has happened to their recruiting, IMO, is the decline of Tennessee football. That school, not Georgia or Florida, is the biggest threat for USC because of the tradition that school has and the proximity to the state. USC winning lately against them under Spurrier, along with a little help from internal problems, has basically shut down the border to Tennessee and that has been a problem for them getting back to what they once were. They, like Alabama, had to recruit multiple states and regions (sometimes nationally) to get kids which was very easy to do when they were winning. But now you see what happens when the winning slows down, they are struggling and not nearly recruiting at the level they had been accustomed to. A large part of that has been because their state just doesn't produce much of anything so they don't have anything to fall back on or a "sure thing" so to speak.

If you look at Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, and A&M. 4 of those 5 schools have the richest recruiting grounds in the country in their backyard. All 4 of those schools are the only SEC school in their state. They are going to get who they want. It is a perfect storm. They are in the SEC, they have a long standing tradition and hardware, resources (including money) a plenty, and great school environments. They also, like USC, have great coaches and staffs full of great recruiters. USC doesn't have a lot of that so they need to improvise which is what they have been doing.

For USC to even dream about getting Top 5-10 classes yearly, they would need a few things to happen. First, the next Nick Saban-type coach needs to be coaching. A guy that not only is a terrific gameday coach but one that cares so much about recruiting and the team that it takes over his life. There aren't many guys out there like that that can do what Saban and even Urban Meyer do year in and year out. These guys like James Franklin, Hugh Freeze that are killing it right now are going to burn out if they don't find some sense of balance. Look at Urban Meyer, he just beat himself into the ground because he was too hands on. Saban is a rare breed, but you have to think his day is coming where he just falls apart. But anyway, the second thing that must happen is USC needs to win a championship with what they have. They need to have something that sticks out in the trophy room. Something where when they are going to the coaches office on official visits they pass and say 'it can be done'. Third, they need more big booster/doners to feed more money into the program. USC is doing the best it has ever done in that department so far but it needs to be sustained. The facilities are night and day, but they can still be better. They can not fall back again in the arms race. Fourth, the state of SC has got to start producing a deeper pool of high D1 prospects for multiple years. Not just a handful for a couple years and then a big group others. It has to be a steady stream. This is very unlikely.

And really the last thing. A little bit of luck. The stars have to align.

I know everyone expected top 10 classes galore, but its just something that'll take a lot of time and something out of the ordinary to happen before its even remotely reasonable to expect such. What Coach Spurrier and his staff have done has been admirable and who knows, there could be the next Nick Saban out there ready to take this job when it comes open. But its still going to take a perfect storm for USC to ever get to the level of the power 6.

Anyway, just my view on things. I'm sure others disagree.
Outside of Auburn also being in Alabama, dead on. I have always tried to come up with a name for the theory that Tennessee (or UGA) had to fall for us to get into the SEC East discussion every year. Looking back, it was probably always going to be Tennessee, because they didn't have the in-state talent to lean on. That has always puzzled me as well, why Tennessee didn't have more talented high school guys...but oh well.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:00 PM   #16220
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Default Re: Alfy Hill Thread (2013 Commitment)

Being reported on twitter that Alfy Hill is headed to UNC-Pembroke

This came out of left field...
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