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Old 01-15-2013, 08:45 PM   #41
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by Dizzy01 View Post
It certainly worked out for the best but the point was both balls were underthrown, both receivers made adjustments and both guys ended up with TDs.
You are basically comparing a fastball to a slider that didnt break but both worked out. Neither was perfect but Dylan intention threw it short to protect the WR and into the opening. Shaw's just didn't get enough on it. It happens but if Shaw had thrown it 5 yard further it would have been Byrd 3 steps ahead of the DB.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:47 PM   #42
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
Dylan's and Connor's passes could have been better but both got the job done.

Either way, whoever starts will get all our support.
This is one of the best posts I've seen on this topic since it all started. Points to you my friend!
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:53 PM   #43
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by Don Giovanni View Post
I don't have a rooting interest in the whole Shaw/Thompson discussion, but I think that TD pass to Bruce was placed perfectly. There was a defender beyond and behind Bruce on the play.
This is a perfect example where our "perception" gets the better of us and why the fact is that we it does seem there is unfairness towards Connor when it comes to passing (and unfairness when it comes to Dylan when it comes to running).

What you state above on the pass to Bruce is SIMPLY not true. It is not true in any sense of the word. What is true is that Dylan has someone in his face and that he may not have been able to put any more on the ball. He took one hell of a shot and just to get it off was an accomplishment. But your statements about the defenders "beyond and behind" Bruce and that ball needed to be thrown short are inaccurate.

Take a look at the video and stop it at exactly the :09 second mark just when the safety comes into the screen. If that ball is thrown to the goal line then Bruce catches it on the run with no one even being close to being able to make a play on it. He has the corner beat by a mile and the safety doesn't even come into the screen until Bruce is already starting to slow down because the ball is under thrown. If you look at the video objectively, you can see quite simply that what you are stating is not accurate. It wasn't placed in that spot "because of defenders being behind and beyond Bruce." If it was thrown deeper, Bruce would have caught it easily and never had to make a cut to get into the endzone.

You can also see at the 35 second mark just how far the safety is away from Bruce as the ball is well on its way. He is completely on the other side of the goal post. There is simply no rational way to say that the ball needed to be thrown the way it was to avoid the defenders. It was thrown short because Dylan had pressure in his face.

Finally, just to PROVE it without a shadow of a doubt, pause the video at the 43 and 44 second mark and tell me how there is anyone "beyond or behind" Bruce. It simply is not the case.

Again, let me be clear that this is not a post saying Dylan didn't make a good throw. He made a GREAT throw given the pressure in his face.

My post is about the fact that we see things that aren't really how they occurred to fit our "argument." Cognitive dissonance, I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CrrSUzTGBs

Last edited by cofcgamecock9; 01-15-2013 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by LegalCock View Post
Spurrier will give them both ample opportunities to show who can be most effective. I think both guys will play a lot next season no matter what.

With the way QBs get hurt, we need 2 qbs next year. So say nice things about both because we need their attitude right.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:14 PM   #45
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
You are basically comparing a fastball to a slider that didnt break but both worked out. Neither was perfect but Dylan intention threw it short to protect the WR and into the opening. Shaw's just didn't get enough on it. It happens but if Shaw had thrown it 5 yard further it would have been Byrd 3 steps ahead of the DB.
Simply not true.. Please see the post above where I point out how this is inaccurate. It is just not true. The safety is nowhere near the play if the ball is thrown deeper and the corners are beat by a mile. My post above honestly demonstrates this to a point that you simply are just not being objective if you say that the Dylan's pass needed to be under thrown because of the defenders.

Just for a quick recap...

At the 09 second mark, the 35 second mark, and the 43/44 second mark, you can see that this "idea" that the defenders were in a position where Dylan needed to throw it short is simply not true.

In fact, you only have to look at the 43 and 44 second mark to see WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that there were no defenders anywhere near Bruce if he caught the ball without having to come back to it. Dylan had pressure coming right at him and I think his throw was a GREAT throw. So lets not turn this around on me. He made the play and it was a GREAT play. But I have read this idea too much on here that Dylan "needed" to throw the ball short and that is simply not true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CrrSUzTGBs
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:22 PM   #46
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by me4USC View Post
I agree. There certainly should be room enough for both of them.

As for a "clutch play," Thompson stood his ground and threw that last pass to Ellington while a Michigan player was headed right at him. Thompson could see the guy, and he stood his ground, made the throw, and took a hit to the ribs that laid him out for several seconds. Had he tried to run out of it, we wouldn't be discussing how we won the game, because we wouldn't have won it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:23 PM   #47
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
You are basically comparing a fastball to a slider that didnt break but both worked out. Neither was perfect but Dylan intention threw it short to protect the WR and into the opening. Shaw's just didn't get enough on it. It happens but if Shaw had thrown it 5 yard further it would have been Byrd 3 steps ahead of the DB.
I have to disagree. Dylan didn't need to throw that ball short. It wasn't intentional. He threw it short, b/c there was a guy breathing in his face.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:25 PM   #48
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
I'm not belittling Thompson. He was awesome and also clutch, but that play by Shaw was the most clutch play of the game to me. He was dead-to-rights horizontal for split second falling down and being spun around, but he would not let that sack happen. It was slightly more clutch than the Clowney hit, who got a free shot because no one blocked him. We've made good plays outside of crunch time. But Thompsons pass does not happen if Shaw get's sacked there. He set the tone in the drive for the comeback with his gritty play. I think Clowney's forced fumble against Tennessee was up there in clutchness, but that is about it. I like thompson, I do think he is the better passer, I do think he is also a winner. But Shaw has shown me too many times he is a winner to go with Thompson over him, and that last play was a clincher for me. Agree with me or not, I just think that play should get some more attention.
How about when we had 4th and 4-5 and Shaw took off running for the sticks and just dropped the ball. Not clutch.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:28 PM   #49
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Thompson has a better arm, takes his drop and the ball is usually coming out, can run when he needs to, and will stay in there and take a hit like every quarterback should do.

Everyone is quick to talk about Shaws running ability which is good but he cant take hits like he did and last a whole season in this league. He also takes off and runs more often than he should.

I prefer a quarterback who runs when he NEEDS too and not runs when he can.


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Old 01-15-2013, 09:30 PM   #50
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by ra742002 View Post
I have to disagree. Dylan didn't need to throw that ball short. It wasn't intentional. He threw it short, b/c there was a guy breathing in his face.
This is 100% correct and there is actually no way to argue it. It simply can't be objectively argued if you watch the video. I posted above the link to the video and the important times to watch. I think this is a perfect example of where some fans are giving perception to one QB where it is simply not what happened.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:36 PM   #51
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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How about when we had 4th and 4-5 and Shaw took off running for the sticks and just dropped the ball. Not clutch.
So are you going to point out every single mistake he made in the game to argue that he is not clutch when he came through several times on that last drive with minute left and the game on the line?
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:39 PM   #52
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
This is 100% correct and there is actually no way to argue it. It simply can't be objectively argued if you watch the video. I posted above the link to the video and the important times to watch. I think this is a perfect example of where some fans are giving perception to one QB where it is simply not what happened.
So you're saying Thompson was lucky, not good, on our final play. Amazing.
Would Shaw have been able to make that play....probably not because he would have taken off running and never have made it to the goal line.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:48 PM   #53
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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But the thing with shaw is...there was probably somebody open initially before he even had to scramble. He may have made the play harder than it needed to be and thus he had to make a crazy play just to keep us alive. And likewise on dt's throw he stood in there and let that thing go rather than avoiding the sack and making some scramble play for 10 yards.
That seems to be the difference in the two. One trusts his legs, the other his arm.
It was a great play however and for sure gave us momentum on that drive.
No one had their head turned around that soon and as soon as Connor completed his drop back he had a guy trying to tackle him because Robinson completely whiff on blocking the DE. It looked like he initially was trying to block some invisible man, and did a "wa-wha?!"
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:52 PM   #54
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

You can see all of this in video links I posted above, but here are some pictures for those of you that simply don't want to see what really happened by clicking on a link.

The fist is a down the field view right as Dylan is releasing the ball. Notice that the deep safety is all the way over on the left hashmark (the person right under the goal post is a referee). You can't see it that well in this picture (although it is EASY to see in the video), but Bruce already has the two defenders closest to him beat by this point. It is also important to note that this route is not run towards the middle of the field. Bruce stays right along the numbers until the catches the ball. There is simply no way to say that Dylan INTENTIONALLY threw the ball short because of the defenders. That is simply inaccurate. He threw it short because of the pressure.

The second is a picture as Bruce is catching the ball. If you watch the video, you can see easily at the 43/44 second mark that the safety is nowhere close to the play if the ball is thrown a little deeper. There is most definitely not a defender "behind or beyond" Bruce as has been posted.

This was a great pass by Dylan due to the pressure. I have only posted all of this stuff because I think it shows what a lot of us get frustrated with regarding how fans post about BOTH QBs. Posters come up with these ideas that one thing was a certain way when the reality is that it simply wasn't.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:57 PM   #55
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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Originally Posted by b381l View Post
So you're saying Thompson was lucky, not good, on our final play. Amazing.
Would Shaw have been able to make that play....probably not because he would have taken off running and never have made it to the goal line.
Don't turn around what I am saying. I never even remotely said that Thompson was lucky! Not even close.

And the second part of your post is exactly the problem. You have no idea what Shaw would have done, just like no one knows what Dylan would have done if he had had to scramble on the third down play. Dylan has shown plenty of scrambling ability. You are trying to turn this around on me and turn this into a Dylan vs Shaw post. This is exactly the problem!

It was not a lucky throw by Dylan. It was a GREAT throw by Dylan because of the pressure in his face and because he SAW that there was no safety and he knew he didn't need to make a perfect throw. He did exactly what he needed to do. So don't change that around on me.

But my point, which is 100% factual and can easily be seen by anyone who watches the video, is that it is SIMPLY inaccurate to say that Dylan NEEDED to throw the ball short because of the defenders. Quite a few people in this thread have said that the throw "needed" to be short and that is simply not true. You can try to turn it around and take it down some other path if you want, but as far as this play and whether Dylan NEEDED to throw it short to avoid defenders that were "beyond and behind" Bruce, that is not true and I think it is important to point it out to show how perception can be cloudy based on your thoughts on one QB or the other.

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Old 01-15-2013, 10:16 PM   #56
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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So are you going to point out every single mistake he made in the game to argue that he is not clutch when he came through several times on that last drive with minute left and the game on the line?
No I don't have time.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:19 PM   #57
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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No I don't have time.
What a sad statement to make about kids that work hard for your enjoyment. No matter which players you think should be playing.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:19 PM   #58
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

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With the way QBs get hurt, we need 2 qbs next year. So say nice things about both because we need their attitude right.
Exactly! Neither one should be dissed by the fan base. We will need both of them, and heaven help us if either one of them ever reads a thread like this.

I wouldn't want Nosovitch or Mitch to read it either. What would they think of people bashing either Shaw or Thompson? Without either of these young men, we wouldn't have the great record we have. What if we hadn't had Thompson when Shaw couldn't play against ECU or Clemson, or when he had to leave the game halfway through UAB? Do you realize how fortunate we are to have both of them? Yes, Shaw was a trooper throughout the bowl game, but he had to go out in the last 1/2 minute. We wouldn't have won without Shaw, Ellington, Ace, and the rest, but we wouldn't have won without Thompson either.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:30 PM   #59
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

If you look at the top picture, there is nobody on the right side of the field. Dylan was throwing the ball to a spot hoping Bruce would run under it and make the catch. This is what good QB do. He didn't have time to wait for Bruce's break. Most QB throw to a spot or an area.....you have trust that your WR will be there....plus there are always WR adjustments on the fly depending on where the ball is thrown in relation to the DB. Connor threw it to a spot at the back on the end zone when throwing the nice TD to Ace earlier. This is exactly what SOS has been preaching to Connor for the last couple of years, he has to throw it to a spot where the receiver will be when the ball gets there.....many times releasing the ball even before the WR has made his break. It's very hard to do which is why not many ever become really good QB.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:36 PM   #60
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Default Re: Not to take anything away from Thompson but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9 View Post
You can see all of this in video links I posted above, but here are some pictures for those of you that simply don't want to see what really happened by clicking on a link.

The fist is a down the field view right as Dylan is releasing the ball. Notice that the deep safety is all the way over on the left hashmark (the person right under the goal post is a referee). You can't see it that well in this picture (although it is EASY to see in the video), but Bruce already has the two defenders closest to him beat by this point. It is also important to note that this route is not run towards the middle of the field. Bruce stays right along the numbers until the catches the ball. There is simply no way to say that Dylan INTENTIONALLY threw the ball short because of the defenders. That is simply inaccurate. He threw it short because of the pressure.

The second is a picture as Bruce is catching the ball. If you watch the video, you can see easily at the 43/44 second mark that the safety is nowhere close to the play if the ball is thrown a little deeper. There is most definitely not a defender "behind or beyond" Bruce as has been posted.

This was a great pass by Dylan due to the pressure. I have only posted all of this stuff because I think it shows what a lot of us get frustrated with regarding how fans post about BOTH QBs. Posters come up with these ideas that one thing was a certain way when the reality is that it simply wasn't.
Your earlier post said there was no way Dylan threw it short intentionally because of the defender, implying he was lucky to throw it there. Have you asked him why he threw it short.
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