Brad Lawing

[Schecter]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

Wait, but hold on, you said that you give the edge to Florida over UGA. But UGA won the EAST that last two seasons, which is why you are saying they are a better program than SC. It certainly can't be because of head to head matchups because SC has won the last three and "beat the pants off of them" this year. So your only reasoning that UGA would be better than SC TODAY is because they won the East. So why do you say Florida is better than UGA? UGA won the East AND beat the pants off of Florida. But somehow, you think Florida is the better program AS OF TODAY??

2008... national championship. I'm done arguing with you over this. You have your opinion, which is fine, I have mine. at the end of the day, what we say doesn't matter anyway. Have a good night sir.

[cofcgamecock9]

Originally Posted by Schecter

2008... national championship. I'm done arguing with you over this. You have your opinion, which is fine, I have mine. at the end of the day, what we say doesn't matter anyway. Have a good night sir.

But you said the past didn't matter. That is what YOU said when I brought up SC's performance against Florida for the past three seasons AND SC's overall record and conference record compared to Florida's for the past three seasons. So the past doesn't matter, but then you bring up the 2008 National Championship?? I guess Tennessee is a better program AS OF TODAY than SC also?

I never said I cared about your opinion. In fact, I went out of my way to say that I can see why someone would have that opinion. I even said that I wouldn't argue with a Florida fan who had the opinion that UF was a better program AS OF TODAY. But when I SAID that it is certainly DEBATABLE (and that is ALL I SAID), you are the one that acted like that was a travesty.

But now you say "you have your opinion, which is fine." Well why wasn't it fine two pages ago?

You think what you want, but I can assure you that it is ABSOLUTELY and CERTAINLY debatable about who has the better program AS OF TODAY between Florida and SC. If you think it is a slam dunk, then you are the one with the problems with your glasses.

[FloydTheBarber]

CRIPPLE FIGHT!

[Schecter]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

But you said the past didn't matter. That is what YOU said when I brought up SC's performance against Florida for the past three seasons AND SC's overall record and conference record compared to Florida's for the past three seasons. So the past doesn't matter, but then you bring up the 2008 National Championship?? I guess Tennessee is a better program AS OF TODAY than SC also?

I never said I cared about your opinion. In fact, I went out of my way to say that I can see why someone would have that opinion. I even said that I wouldn't argue with a Florida fan who had the opinion that UF was a better program AS OF TODAY. But when I SAID that it is certainly DEBATABLE (and that is ALL I SAID), you are the one that acted like that was a travesty.

But now you say "you have your opinion, which is fine." Well why wasn't it fine two pages ago?

You think what you want, but I can assure you that it is ABSOLUTELY and CERTAINLY debatable about who has the better program AS OF TODAY between Florida and SC. If you think it is a slam dunk, then you are the one with the problems with your glasses.

That's right, and but since YOU wanted to bring up the past, can't I? I didn't say anything about head to head match ups, but YOU wanted too. THIS YEAR Florida went to a BCS bowl and Georgia won the SEC East. If you think beating Georgia and a comeback win in the Outback bowl puts USC ahead of both of them this year, then congrats on that!

[cofcgamecock9]

Originally Posted by Schecter

That's right, and but since YOU wanted to bring up the past, can't I? I didn't say anything about head to head match ups, but YOU wanted too. THIS YEAR Florida went to a BCS bowl and Georgia won the SEC East. If you think beating Georgia and a comeback win in the Outback bowl puts USC ahead of both of them this year, then congrats on that!

Northern Illinois went to a BCS bowl also.

Here is my problem with you. It is that you state your opinion as if it should be a fact. Like no one else's opinion has merit. If you think UGA is better than SC because they have won the East, then good for you. You have some valid points.

But look at the things you say.. Look at what you typed above. You make it seem like it is absolutely crazy for someone to think that SC is a better program than UGA right now. You have to be kidding. Sorry, but head to heads DO MATTER.. Especially in FORMING AN OPINION. SC has beaten UGA three straight seasons, and they blew them out of the building this year. And you act like it is asinine for someone to have the opinion that SC is a better program? That is ridiculous. You may not have that opinion and that is fine. But you are acting like we are talking about who has the better program between Alabama and Kentucky.

There are PLENTY of reasons for people to feel like SC is a better program than UGA or Florida right now. Sorry, but when SC finishes the season ranked 7th in the country, unless we are talking about Alabama, it is CERTAINLY not ridiculous for someone to hold a different opinion than you about how SC ranks up against another team. SC is one of four teams in the past two seasons to finish with 11 wins in both seasons. SC has finished both seasons ranked in the top 10. Neither Florida or UGA have done that. Now, I am not saying SC is better... I haven't said that one time in this thread. But those are CERTAINLY enough valid reasons for someone to make a VERY GOOD argument that SC is just as strong, if not stronger, than UF or UGA.

So quit acting like someone has to be wearing garnet colored glasses to think that.

[B&GSpur]

How about he left because of something that is none of our business and he knew people here wouldn't stop prying. While, I hate he had to go, he gave his all for this program for 17 years and I wish him well for that except when he is coaching against us.

[upstatescw]

Don't confuse having the better team in any given year or years with having the better program.

[cofcgamecock9]

Originally Posted by upstatescw

Don't confuse having the better team in any given year or years with having the better program.

So is Tennessee a better program than SC AS OF NOW?... which the AS OF NOW is important since it was one of the main things that we were debating. Not historically, but as of now.

[4Ever2Thee]

I hate that we now have a coach lawing bashing thread, he was a great coach for us and I have no reason to believe anything other than that he was a great person too. I am friends with his son and he is one of the highest character people you'll ever meet. I didn't know coach lawing personally but I know after everything he did for us that he doesn't deserve some of the disparaging rumor mill sh** that's been tossed around in this thread

[upstatescw]

Originally Posted by cofcgamecock9

So is Tennessee a better program than SC AS OF NOW?... which the AS OF NOW is important since it was one of the main things that we were debating. Not historically, but as of now.

What in the world are you talking about? When did Tennessee get mentioned?

It's is all very subjective, so I don't know why you would get so heated about it. My point was there is more to a 'program' than wins and losses over a season or couple of seasons. A program, to me, includes facilities, revenue/profit, tv exposure (which leads to national recognition), national recognition and reputation, recruiting, fan support, etc etc etc. so to answer your question, AS OF NOW, that is what I think is important when talking about a 'program'. You can't talk about who has the better program without including history to some degree, sorry. If you want to just talk about the last season or few seasons, you are just talking about who had the better team those seasons, in my honest opinion.

[yazoo]

Originally Posted by Schecter

A pay raise and a move to a traditional powerhouse doesn't sound like a lateral move to me.

Lawing is a great DL coach. He knows how to teach fundamentals and technique. This is evident by the fact he consistently placed USC DL in the top rounds of the NFL draft, including players that came out of HS with fewer stars than the fancy-pants programs like UF.

That said, it is more than lateral. First, he got a substantial pay increase. That is not lateral.

Second, he got an Assistant Head Coach title. That is not lateral.

Third, he has coached under Johnson and Ward for at least one season. Now, he will coach under one of the best defensive minds in college football in Muschamp. The intangibles on his resume that come with that change mean it is not lateral.

The alleged history and tradition of the UF program are irrelevant. We have Spurrier.

[BuCockyfan]

Elite College Football Programs:

Southern Cal, Texas, Oklahoma, Bama, LSU, UF, Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame

Go anywhere around the country and that's a consensus.

[DiamondGamecock]

Originally Posted by BuCockyfan

Elite College Football Programs:

Southern Cal, Texas, Oklahoma, Bama, LSU, UF, Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame

Go anywhere around the country and that's a consensus.

After this years National Championship debacle, I am willing to lay some cash on the table about Notre Dame being in that crowd. Same with So Cal. They may have history, but lately they have had nothing.

[yazoo]

Originally Posted by BuCockyfan

Elite College Football Programs:

Southern Cal, Texas, Oklahoma, Bama, LSU, UF, Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame

Go anywhere around the country and that's a consensus.

So in your mind, Steve Spurrier is not an elite coach, and I'm talking historically elite?

Take for example, a negative example of a coach that is not elite--case in point, Dabo.

[upstatescw]

Originally Posted by yazoo

So in your mind, Steve Spurrier is not an elete coach, and I'm talking historically elite?

Take for example, a negative example of a coach that is not elite--case in point, Dabo.

I certainly don't speak for that poster, but that's not really what was said. Steve Spurrier is definitely elite.

[yazoo]

Originally Posted by upstatescw

I certainly don't speak for that poster, but that's not really what was said. Steve Spurrier is definitely elite.

I know what was said. I will spell it out. Elite coach = elite program.

[Carolina4Life]

You know he'll talk bad about our program to other recruits now at FLA.

[Dizzy01]

Originally Posted by yazoo

I know what was said. I will spell it out. Elite coach = elite program.

That's not necessarily true. The elite programs are based on a history of success and the coaches and the programs can be seperated in that regard. I'll agree with that list of elite programs but there are a couple on that list that clearly don't have elite coaches.

[Emery]

It reeks of an inferiority complex when people try to argue that USC as a program is on the same level as Florida etc.

We've had our best few years and yet don't have anything to show for it except an SEC east title and bowl victories that only really matter to the teams playing, oh and within the past 50 years we won the ACC once. Florida has 3 national championships, 3 heisman winners, and 8 conference titles.

Today, we are a competitive football team and have done well, but as a program we still have a long way to go to be taken seriously. Also, these arguments are why people think we have far and away the most delusional fan base.

[yazoo]

Originally Posted by Dizzy01

That's not necessarily true. The elite programs are based on a history of success and the coaches and the programs can be seperated in that regard. I'll agree with that list of elite programs but there are a couple on that list that clearly don't have elite coaches.

If they don't have an elite coach, they are not an elite program. The issue is what have you done lately. That is not my viewpoint. That's the viewpoint of recruits. The crapola these so-called elite programs sing about history means nothing when you have a dog crap coach like Dabo.