CockyTalk's NSD Thread

[MDCox]

Actually would say our OL was outmatched, but our DL was right there with LSU and FL. If the OL gets better and Shaw just gets a tad bit better this team will play in ATL. Of course you have to get the right bounce. Just ask Bama.

[trapper82]

The staff specifically said they went after a few but they weren't settling at the position when we have the options at WR next year recruiting class. When the guys we targeted went elsewhere we didn't press with others.

[U-Dub Gamecock]

In our 2 losses... LSU was the more physical team, and they seemed to wear us down in the 4th quarter... As for the Florida game, we never gave ourselves much of a chance after the awful first quarter... LSU was the more impressive team of the 2... I do like our chances against the Gators next year....

[Acockolypse Now]

I will say that I disagree with C2 in terms of the potential of our program.

IF we are able to win the SEC championship a couple of times and either win or compete for a national title, I think we can be a top tier program in terms of recruiting.

We have great existing infrastructure in place that can be improved, a fantastic location (I mean, have you ever been to Lincoln, College Station, or South Bend?), and we play in the SEC.

I'd say the program we could get close to is where UT was in the 90's. We could probably do a little better since our in-state talent is better.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by Acockolypse Now

I will say that I disagree with C2 in terms of the potential of our program.

IF we are able to win the SEC championship a couple of times and either win or compete for a national title, I think we can be a top tier program in terms of recruiting.

We have great existing infrastructure in place that can be improved, a fantastic location (I mean, have you ever been to Lincoln, College Station, or South Bend?), and we play in the SEC.

I'd say the program we could get close to is where UT was in the 90's. We could probably do a little better since our in-state talent is better.

For that to occur we need clempson to be the rough equivalent of Vandy. We can't keep splitting in state talent with them and climb much higher consistently.

[Acockolypse Now]

I disagree.

Over the last 7 years or so we've been going after fundamentally different types of recruits.

We've locked down the state (for the most part) in terms of who we want.

Yes, we've lost out to them on a few guys we wanted, but not many.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by Acockolypse Now

I disagree.

Over the last 7 years or so we've been going after fundamentally different types of recruits.

We've locked down the state (for the most part) in terms of who we want.

Yes, we've lost out to them on a few guys we wanted, but not many.

Not many, but enough to make a 17th ranked class this year into a top 12-15. Isn't that what this whole discussion is about? You can disagree if you wish but where are these other recruits going to come from? What school that is getting them now will miss out later?

[brat]

We didn't have a very highly ranked class because we didn't sign lots of glamour position recruits (WR's, QB's, RB's). Fair or not, those kids tend to get the higher rankings. That is what Clempson has done for years under Tammy and now with Devo. Try to fool their fans and the media with high rankings by grabbing those type players and ignoring the trenches. You can get away with that in the ACC and weak OOC opponents, but not in the SEC.

As has been said, we went after need and we should do that every year, if not, the coaching staff is negligent. The talent on the team has gotten to the point where we can line up with anyone in the nation and have an honest chance of winning. The difference in talent is not so great to make that impossible. It comes down to who has the best preparation that week, the best in game ajustments, a key break or two, etc., and makes the most big plays. I think at LSU, our guys were a little intimidated by the atmosphere as Les Miles had really pumped up his team and the fans earlier in the weak by making this a must win game and had asked for extra effort from the fans that week. Florida is a case where we shot ourselves in the foot so many times with turnovers that led to easy scores, we were out of the game before you could get settled into your seats. Once that happens, you throw the game plan out of the window and our guys finally gave up. Florida wasn't moving the ball on us in the First Half, but when you keep getting the ball near the goal, you don't have to move it far.

We will never be able to constantly recruit as well as teams like Florida or Georgia because of the state population. It simply is easier to recruit in state kids because you hope they have grown up either being a fan of your program or don't want to go far from home. The further you go from the school, the less your chances of snagging most kids and you have less media coverage on a regular basis. We also border only two states. That is a factor to consider in that you figure that for a few miles over each state border, there is the chance of a little bleedover with that local media coverage as we are seeing more and more kids from Charlotte being receptive (Bryant grew up a Gamecock fan) and how we tend to get a few more kids in the CSRA (Central Savannah River Area) than most places in Georgia until we made the Atlanta area a key recruting spot. The general area of Atlanta and nearby has a higher population than our entire state. In a sense, these border areas stretch our natural recruiting areas. Tennessee, with generally poor HS Football, shares its state border with 8 different states and until recently, never worried about Vanderbilt, let alone Memphis for the support or attention of the people in the Volunteer State. It makes a difference. Including itself, that is almost 1/5th of the total states in America that it borders upon. 3 other states,(Ill, WV, SC) are not far away. No wonder they recruit all over. Arkansas and Oklahoma borders 6 states. Most other big footall states border on 3 or 4 others. Only SC has 2 or less border states except for Washington state and I am not counting Hawaii or Alaska or Maine or Rhode Island. Yeah, it makes a difference.

Additionally, some schools do especially well in recruiting not only because they have larger populations, but because they have no viable in state programs to share much of the top talent. LSU get almost every kid they want out of Lousiana. Who in state is going to challenge them? Tulane, La. Tech? Arkansas is not afraid of Arkansas State. UGA doesn't give GT the time of day in their state. If UNC were in the SEC, that state would be in lockdown for them. Southern Cal can recruit their part of the state with their eyes closed, Florida is such a huge state it would be virtually impossible not to recruit well there (at least once that program started taking football seriously) and so it goes.

The way SOS is doing it is the way it needs to be done. Try to get the best in state kids, hit the nearest out of state locations, then try and land a few top kids further away that are responsive to our overtures or have some connection to the school or state.

In the end, you just have to keep winning. We will never be able to put our recruiting on autopilot here. We can always improve, but it will never be easy. It's like the ancient ads for Avis. Their slogan was "We try harder", as they were the #2 rental car company to Hertz.

[MikeTrainNC8]

^Why.....

[trapper82]

Its not easy for anyone, Nick Saban is a tireless worker, combine it with the other advantages and you have present day Alabama. But one simple truth is that for us to get more highly rated recruits someone else has to get less highly rated recruits. So who is that going to be?

[brat]

Originally Posted by MikeTrainNC8

^Why.....

Why not?

Hopefully, a long but truthful answer will shut the whiners up for a day or two.

[HeadCockFan]

Originally Posted by brat

Why not?

Hopefully, a long but truthful answer will shut the whiners up for a day or two.

^ I read this post.

[ConwayGamecock]

Our class concludes with a total of 21 signed/enrolled prospects, and was deemed 16th best in the nation per Rivals...

Our 2012 class had 25 prospects, and was ranked 19th....

Our 2011 class had 32 prospects, including the #1 overall prospect in the nation, and was 18th...

The 2010 class had Lattimore, a total of 23 prospects and was 24th....

So this class had 21 and was ranked 16th. Maybe our recent successes on the field actually DID help us in recruiting...

[usc1]

Originally Posted by brat

We didn't have a very highly ranked class because we didn't sign lots of glamour position recruits (WR's, QB's, RB's). Fair or not, those kids tend to get the higher rankings. That is what Clempson has done for years under Tammy and now with Devo. Try to fool their fans and the media with high rankings by grabbing those type players and ignoring the trenches. You can get away with that in the ACC and weak OOC opponents, but not in the SEC.

As has been said, we went after need and we should do that every year, if not, the coaching staff is negligent. The talent on the team has gotten to the point where we can line up with anyone in the nation and have an honest chance of winning. The difference in talent is not so great to make that impossible. It comes down to who has the best preparation that week, the best in game ajustments, a key break or two, etc., and makes the most big plays. I think at LSU, our guys were a little intimidated by the atmosphere as Les Miles had really pumped up his team and the fans earlier in the weak by making this a must win game and had asked for extra effort from the fans that week. Florida is a case where we shot ourselves in the foot so many times with turnovers that led to easy scores, we were out of the game before you could get settled into your seats. Once that happens, you throw the game plan out of the window and our guys finally gave up. Florida wasn't moving the ball on us in the First Half, but when you keep getting the ball near the goal, you don't have to move it far.

We will never be able to constantly recruit as well as teams like Florida or Georgia because of the state population. It simply is easier to recruit in state kids because you hope they have grown up either being a fan of your program or don't want to go far from home. The further you go from the school, the less your chances of snagging most kids and you have less media coverage on a regular basis. We also border only two states. That is a factor to consider in that you figure that for a few miles over each state border, there is the chance of a little bleedover with that local media coverage as we are seeing more and more kids from Charlotte being receptive (Bryant grew up a Gamecock fan) and how we tend to get a few more kids in the CSRA (Central Savannah River Area) than most places in Georgia until we made the Atlanta area a key recruting spot. The general area of Atlanta and nearby has a higher population than our entire state. In a sense, these border areas stretch our natural recruiting areas. Tennessee, with generally poor HS Football, shares its state border with 8 different states and until recently, never worried about Vanderbilt, let alone Memphis for the support or attention of the people in the Volunteer State. It makes a difference. Including itself, that is almost 1/5th of the total states in America that it borders upon. 3 other states,(Ill, WV, SC) are not far away. No wonder they recruit all over. Arkansas and Oklahoma borders 6 states. Most other big footall states border on 3 or 4 others. Only SC has 2 or less border states except for Washington state and I am not counting Hawaii or Alaska or Maine or Rhode Island. Yeah, it makes a difference.

Additionally, some schools do especially well in recruiting not only because they have larger populations, but because they have no viable in state programs to share much of the top talent. LSU get almost every kid they want out of Lousiana. Who in state is going to challenge them? Tulane, La. Tech? Arkansas is not afraid of Arkansas State. UGA doesn't give GT the time of day in their state. If UNC were in the SEC, that state would be in lockdown for them. Southern Cal can recruit their part of the state with their eyes closed, Florida is such a huge state it would be virtually impossible not to recruit well there (at least once that program started taking football seriously) and so it goes.

The way SOS is doing it is the way it needs to be done. Try to get the best in state kids, hit the nearest out of state locations, then try and land a few top kids further away that are responsive to our overtures or have some connection to the school or state.

In the end, you just have to keep winning. We will never be able to put our recruiting on autopilot here. We can always improve, but it will never be easy. It's like the ancient ads for Avis. Their slogan was "We try harder", as they were the #2 rental car company to Hertz.

I believe over time we can recruit on the UGA level. When Tenn was good in the Fulmer years they were right up there in recruiting with UGA, UF, Bama, etc. year in and year out. And they had no instate talent to rely on. I think it is possible to get on that level, but obviously it will take time to build a program to what Tenn had up until recently.


Don't forget Spurrier said "Why not us"

[ReadR00ster]

Everyone wants to be like Alabama, and most think that the reason Alabama is so good is because of the 5 and 4 stars recruits that they get. But that is not the reason. The reason is because of the 5 and 4 starts recruits that they say "sorry but we're going to pass on you," to. Yes, our coaches are excellent evaluators, but so is Alabama's staff. THAT is the reason why they are successful. If Alabama had to settle for a bunch of three stars they would make it work and still compete for championships because they know good football players when they see them and know exactly how to use them and how to coach them up. Same thing for our coaches, and we are right there in the top 10 in the country being "out-recruited" by all these teams as proof.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by usc1

I believe over time we can recruit on the UGA level. When Tenn was good in the Fulmer years they were right up there in recruiting with UGA, UF, Bama, etc. year in and year out. And they had no instate talent to rely on. I think it is possible to get on that level, but obviously it will take time to build a program to what Tenn had up until recently.


Don't forget Spurrier said "Why not us"

And yet, our improvement in recruiting will come to someone else's detriment in recruiting. That is one of the big things that happened to Tennessee, South Carolina began keeping our big recruits. So what team is going to miss on the guys that they are currently getting so we can get them instead. My argument has always been clempson, others have disagreed but not offered any alternatives.

[Take-a-Knee]

I think our recruits are looking just fine .. I'm excited and can't wait

GO GAMECOCKS !!!

[Ace Dilcock]

A fewthoughts....
Reading the threads about our losses to LSU and UF, the biggest concern seems to be OL. We lose one guy this year and one next year. They happen to be starters, but also happen to be the only OL guys that we are losing, period. We have four talented RS Freshman coming on board this year. We just signed our best OL class under Spurrier. We are already leading for two of the top guys next year. So we have addressed our biggest need through strong recruiting.
As C2 noted, we don't always recruit for the stars. Jeff Scott used an analogy in the Post Courier this morning - he said that when he went fishing as a kid, he did not go where there were a lot of fish, he went to a deep hole where he could catch a really big fish or two. That is what Clemson does - go after the big name guys, usually at skill positions, in the hopes of landing a few. Then they settle for a few throw-in guys to make up their class (Brad Scott did the same thing at Carolina). Our class is stronger than Clemson, top to bottom, with more guys that will contribute. When you have a situation like the recruit from Alabama - who was unrated by ESPN before Clemson offered - and then he gets bumped to a 4 star and boosts Clemson's rating, it is hard to take recruiting services seriously. We have a better class than Clemson and several of the teams ahead of us.
The big reason that we did not finish higher this year and last is simply the lack of talent in the state. There are twice as many top prospects this coming year than in the last two classes - put together. And with our domination over Clemson and success the last two years, we will get more than our share. We may be a little limited with numbers, but we will get a lot of big names (and star ratings).
And, yes, we can win the SEC with the talent that we have now.

[usc1]

Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock

A fewthoughts....
Reading the threads about our losses to LSU and UF, the biggest concern seems to be OL. We lose one guy this year and one next year. They happen to be starters, but also happen to be the only OL guys that we are losing, period. We have four talented RS Freshman coming on board this year. We just signed our best OL class under Spurrier. We are already leading for two of the top guys next year. So we have addressed our biggest need through strong recruiting.
As C2 noted, we don't always recruit for the stars. Jeff Scott used an analogy in the Post Courier this morning - he said that when he went fishing as a kid, he did not go where there were a lot of fish, he went to a deep hole where he could catch a really big fish or two. That is what Clemson does - go after the big name guys, usually at skill positions, in the hopes of landing a few. Then they settle for a few throw-in guys to make up their class (Brad Scott did the same thing at Carolina). Our class is stronger than Clemson, top to bottom, with more guys that will contribute. When you have a situation like the recruit from Alabama - who was unrated by ESPN before Clemson offered - and then he gets bumped to a 4 star and boosts Clemson's rating, it is hard to take recruiting services seriously. We have a better class than Clemson and several of the teams ahead of us.
The big reason that we did not finish higher this year and last is simply the lack of talent in the state. There are twice as many top prospects this coming year than in the last two classes - put together. And with our domination over Clemson and success the last two years, we will get more than our share. We may be a little limited with numbers, but we will get a lot of big names (and star ratings).
And, yes, we can win the SEC with the talent that we have now.

I think one of the problems with the OL is the lack of talent. We had 2 fours stars and 3 three stars starting on the line this past year. All the 3 stars (with exception to maybe TJ) played like three stars and Cann and Shell have bright futures but they aren't there yet. Bama and LSU get the 4/5* and they get them to play on that level too.

[LegalCock]

Most likely to play a lot next season: Ronnie Martin?