QB stats

[sporkgod50]

Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid

I have no emotion.

I got a good laugh out of this.

[me4USC]

Originally Posted by boness

Shaw is a decnt player who when halthy is a legit running threat however he is injury prone thus limiting that run threat.
his throwing threat is virtually non existant. he is typically around 200 or so per game via the air facing defences that absolutely sell out for the run and dare him to beat them.
his current level of production is based on nearly two years of pre season, regular season and post season first team practice reps. Dillion has reached his current level of effectiveness with two weeks of first team practice reps in total.
i am one of those who believe dispite our offence not being taylored for DT's play style we are still far better off with him at QB now and it stands to reason he would benifitt further with consistent first team reps and the o taylored for his skills s it was for shaw when he took over from garcia. indeed the o garcia ran with added pure drop back would i thing be very effective for DT.
additionall while DT is pretty much useless with shaw in at QB the opposite isn't true. Shaw can provide a threat in the game with DT as he can threaten as a runner, likely as a reciever and threatens with the throw option from the slot, wildcat or rb positions.

Good analysis. In addition, IMHO, unless Shaw changes his style of play, he will remain injured. Your testosterone levels may be elevated when he charges ahead, but he does it so often that it is predictable. Defenses are just waiting for him to do that, and he is injured more often than not.

Thompson's style makes him less likely to sustain serious injury, IMO.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by boness

Shaw is a decnt player who when halthy is a legit running threat however he is injury prone thus limiting that run threat.
his throwing threat is virtually non existant. he is typically around 200 or so per game via the air facing defences that absolutely sell out for the run and dare him to beat them.
his current level of production is based on nearly two years of pre season, regular season and post season first team practice reps. Dillion has reached his current level of effectiveness with two weeks of first team practice reps in total.
i am one of those who believe dispite our offence not being taylored for DT's play style we are still far better off with him at QB now and it stands to reason he would benifitt further with consistent first team reps and the o taylored for his skills s it was for shaw when he took over from garcia. indeed the o garcia ran with added pure drop back would i thing be very effective for DT.
additionall while DT is pretty much useless with shaw in at QB the opposite isn't true. Shaw can provide a threat in the game with DT as he can threaten as a runner, likely as a reciever and threatens with the throw option from the slot, wildcat or rb positions.

I think your analysis of the practice reps is a little hyperbolic. Shaw beat out Garcia in the offseason and became the starter in 2011. He lost the job, took it back over a few games later, so Spurrier and crew constantly promote the fact that you can move up by out practicing the guy above you. This is also true of the offensive line, defensive line, etc. The whole team works that way, the coaches do not go into practices the way you describe it. Dylan Thompson lost the backup role directly after ECU, then got it back. All players constantly have opportunities to move up the depth chart. Both Shaw and Thompson will be given a chance to win the job. I have no idea who will take it, but I do trust the coaches to put the guy that gives us the best chance out there.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by ReadR00ster

You mean the ball that was under-thrown and intercepted and Byrd ripped it out of Rambo's hands?

It amazes me how people think most deep passes were made by the WRs when thrown by Connor but dont mention the 6 "should have been" pics Dylan had in the Clemsux game.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by me4USC

I like all four of our QBs, and I haven't bashed any of them. Stats were introduced by this thread, and I'm very interested in that aspect of the game. Yes, I freely admit that I prefer to see Thompson play, but I do not want Shaw benched. I would like to see both of them used.

[Don Giovanni]

Originally Posted by boness

Shaw is a decnt player who when halthy is a legit running threat however he is injury prone thus limiting that run threat.
his throwing threat is virtually non existant. he is typically around 200 or so per game via the air facing defences that absolutely sell out for the run and dare him to beat them.
his current level of production is based on nearly two years of pre season, regular season and post season first team practice reps. Dillion has reached his current level of effectiveness with two weeks of first team practice reps in total.
i am one of those who believe dispite our offence not being taylored for DT's play style we are still far better off with him at QB now and it stands to reason he would benifitt further with consistent first team reps and the o taylored for his skills s it was for shaw when he took over from garcia. indeed the o garcia ran with added pure drop back would i thing be very effective for DT.
additionall while DT is pretty much useless with shaw in at QB the opposite isn't true. Shaw can provide a threat in the game with DT as he can threaten as a runner, likely as a reciever and threatens with the throw option from the slot, wildcat or rb positions.

I agree with the majority of your post, but man, that was difficult to read. I really hope you were simply typing on your phone and suffered a devastating case of fatfingeritis.

[Dizzy01]

It's interesting that when Thompson hits the TE over the middle it shows arm strength and and ability to read the defense. When Shaw throws the TE over the middle it's a dump off pass and is a completely worthless play.

Since the 2010 season and the passing success was brought up you might want to go back and look at the teams record when the QB threw the ball 25 or less times versus the record when he threw the ball more than 25 times.

I know people love seeing the ball thrown around but the reality of football (especially on the college level) is that a solid running game makes the biggest difference. The team didn't have any more success running the football when Thompson was in the game compared to Shaw and stacking the box happens against a lot of teams. Ever watched an Alabama game? How does that impact their offense?

The team can win with either style QB playing but one style isn't better than the other. The key is the oline providing consistent run and pass blocking and unless that happens neither QB is going to have continued success.

[BeatBamaTwice]

Is this what winning and going 22 and 4 over the past two seasons does? I always scratched my head about how Georgia fans were calling for Coach Richt's head and job following early losses to us. They're an elite program and winners, just like us.

I recently heard Coach asked about playing both Dillon and Connor at the same time. You could see Coach's wheels spinning as I'm sure he's given it some thought. If Dillon was the wide out they'd obviously suspect a pass, and if Connor a run. I'm only guessing but with Connor needing to stay off that foot during healing I'd suspect that his upper body is getting a wee bit more exercise than normal ;) I also suspect that Dillon is working his tail off to elevate his game too. Two SEC caliber QBs, what a wonderful problem to have!

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by Dizzy01

It's interesting that when Thompson hits the TE over the middle it shows arm strength and and ability to read the defense. When Shaw throws the TE over the middle it's a dump off pass and is a completely worthless play.

Since the 2010 season and the passing success was brought up you might want to go back and look at the teams record when the QB threw the ball 25 or less times versus the record when he threw the ball more than 25 times.

I know people love seeing the ball thrown around but the reality of football (especially on the college level) is that a solid running game makes the biggest difference. The team didn't have any more success running the football when Thompson was in the game compared to Shaw and stacking the box happens against a lot of teams. Ever watched an Alabama game? How does that impact their offense?

The team can win with either style QB playing but one style isn't better than the other. The key is the oline providing consistent run and pass blocking and unless that happens neither QB is going to have continued success.

I believe we are just seeing several events come together with make Carolina fans a little more wound up than usual.

1. For the past three years, we have competed for the SEC East, winning it once. Yet we have had the best record ever (which is saying something for over 100 years of football) in back to back seasons, but did not make the SEC championship game.

2. We have the best schedule setup in a generation coming in 2013, and every conference game will have massive stakes.

3. We have two very capable QB's, who have both proven themselves to be winners and able to handle a variety of situations.

And this is where the angst comes in. Some genuinely believe that Thompson gives us the little bit of an edge we need to win the East and ultimately the SEC, and moments like this are far from guaranteed. All we need to do is ask Tennessee, being a contender is not a foregone conclusion. But right now, we are one, and it could well come down to QB play to win the SEC and have a chance to play for a National Championship.

Naturally, we get worked up over that, how can you not? This one season can turn around everything, much like winning it all in baseball back to back years did for us. But I think some go too far and delve too deeply into one stat to prove their point because of this. To these individuals, it is impossible that we would risk this chance by trotting out the guy they feel is the wrong choice. At the end of the day, we can write all the manifestos and dissertations we want to on this board and it won't change the coach's mind. The coaching staff has said and proven over time that they will play the player they believe will give us the best chance to win. I would encourage my wound up Gamecock brethren and sisters to trust the coaches that made us contenders to begin with to know what they are doing. I am a huge Connor Shaw fan, but part of me believes that Thompson may be a better quarterback for what Steve Spurrier has traditionally done on offense. But its not my call to make, and I'm pretty thankful of that to be quite honest because its VERY HARD. What I do know is that whoever goes on that field will have my full support, as will the guy who may need to step in on a moments notice to finish the job should an injury or special situation occur.

[Jdallen20]

Originally Posted by FanofCarolina1

Damiere's catch in the UGA game was a thing of beauty also.

Which was under-thrown by Shaw.... lol

[uscsabres]

Originally Posted by trapper82

*wall of text*

Good post. Everyone is allowed to have their opinion about who is the better QB, and an argument can be made for both Connor and Dylan. They both have their strengths and weaknesses that can help or hinder the offense. That said, I think that our best chance to succeed this coming season comes from a situation where both players get comparable playing time. I think the extra preparation that opposing defenses wll have to undergo will make it impossible to have a plan for every single thing we might throw at them. Deception will be a valuable tool, because despite their differences, Connor can still throw a lot of passes, and Dylan is still a decent runner. And to anyone that wants either player as a full-time starter, please realize that, given the success both players saw last season, Spurrier likely wouldn't make such an announcement if he even reached a decision like that in the first place. Why make things easier for the opposing defense?

[yazoo]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

You are using 4 games of observantions to make a point, that is why you are being shot down. Read the actual study and why the stats don't tell the while story. People who watched every game could see he didn't throw deep consistently and when he did he didn't complete it often.

I observed every game and your statement is completely false. I observed Shaw throw many beautiful deep balls. In addition to my observations, I would say you need to trust Spurrier. Spurrier won a Heisman as a QB at Florida. He is an offensive and passing genius. Spurrier states Shaw throws a nice deep ball.

You don't have to believe me. You should believe Spurrier.

I don't have to believe you. I do believe Spurrier.

As far as I'm concerned, that settles it.

Originally Posted by Dizzy01

It's interesting that when Thompson hits the TE over the middle it shows arm strength and and ability to read the defense. When Shaw throws the TE over the middle it's a dump off pass and is a completely worthless play.

Since the 2010 season and the passing success was brought up you might want to go back and look at the teams record when the QB threw the ball 25 or less times versus the record when he threw the ball more than 25 times.

I know people love seeing the ball thrown around but the reality of football (especially on the college level) is that a solid running game makes the biggest difference. The team didn't have any more success running the football when Thompson was in the game compared to Shaw and stacking the box happens against a lot of teams. Ever watched an Alabama game? How does that impact their offense?

The team can win with either style QB playing but one style isn't better than the other. The key is the oline providing consistent run and pass blocking and unless that happens neither QB is going to have continued success.

And this explains why some people think Shaw cannot throw deep . . . despite stats, despite Spurrier, and despite actual events they observe. Some people just want Thompson to be the starter and it colors their perception.

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by yazoo

I observed every game and your statement is completely false. I observed Shaw throw many beautiful deep balls. In addition to my observations, I would say you need to trust Spurrier. Spurrier won a Heisman as a QB at Florida. He is an offensive and passing genius. Spurrier states Shaw throws a nice deep ball.

You don't have to believe me. You should believe Spurrier.

I don't have to believe you. I do believe Spurrier.

As far as I'm concerned, that settles it.



And this explains why some people think Shaw cannot throw deep . . . despite stats, despite Spurrier, and despite actual events they observe. Some people just want Thompson to be the starter and it colors their perception.

Throwing a nice deep ball and being accurate and completing it are two different things. Go check out the Michigan game and see how many open WR he missed on deep routes. The one completed took a very good catch by Byrd on an under throw.

Also I never said I don't agree with Spurrier to do the best for the team, but I can discuss who I think is a better QB. Those are not always the same thing. Love how your fanhood or your trust in the head coach is question if you discuss who is better between players.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

Throwing a nice deep ball and being accurate and completing it are two different things. Go check out the Michigan game and see how many open WR he missed on deep routes. The one completed took a very good catch by Byrd on an under throw.

Also I never said I don't agree with Spurrier to do the best for the team, but I can discuss who I think is a better QB. Those are not always the same thing. Love how your fanhood or your trust in the head coach is question if you discuss who is better between players.

Just curious...was the game winning throw by Dylan against Michigan an underthrown ball and took an adjustment by Bruce which was a great catch in your opinion

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

Just curious...was the game winning throw by Dylan against Michigan an underthrown ball and took an adjustment by Bruce which was a great catch in your opinion

I don't think Dylan's was a perfect throw, no. I don't think it was nearly as difficult a catch as Byrd's. Difference was Dylan threw anticipating the opening and put it in a place where Bruce could adjust and get to it, whereas Shaw didn't have to anticipate but just under threw it a bit, which allowed the defender to make a play on the ball. They are different type of throws, so not exactly perfect comparisons. Shaw did have a very good pass and placed it in a tight spot to Ace in that game. I just think he misses to many guys down the sidelines like Buster Anderson and Shaq in that game, where he threw it out of bounds.

I can't remember the game, it was like Tenn, where Thompson came in and dropped a nice over the shoulder seem route to Bruce, where Shaw had missed the same throw early by a yard or two. It isn't missing it by a lot, but enough that guys can't make a play on the ball. That type of play has to be hit to have a consistent offense. That is where I think Shaw struggles. I do not agree that he has a weak arm. I just think he is inaccurate or inconsistent with his throws. Also Dylan has a more natural throw for dropping the ball over the LB and under the safeties and things like that, where Shaw is better at throwing straight line darts through a hole.

[gripitandripit2007]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

I don't think Dylan's was a perfect throw, no. I don't think it was nearly as difficult a catch as Byrd's. Difference was Dylan threw anticipating the opening and put it in a place where Bruce could adjust and get to it, whereas Shaw didn't have to anticipate but just under threw it a bit, which allowed the defender to make a play on the ball. They are different type of throws, so not exactly perfect comparisons. Shaw did have a very good pass and placed it in a tight spot to Ace in that game. I just think he misses to many guys down the sidelines like Buster Anderson and Shaq in that game, where he threw it out of bounds.

I can't remember the game, it was like Tenn, where Thompson came in and dropped a nice over the shoulder seem route to Bruce, where Shaw had missed the same throw early by a yard or two. It isn't missing it by a lot, but enough that guys can't make a play on the ball. That type of play has to be hit to have a consistent offense. That is where I think Shaw struggles. I do not agree that he has a weak arm. I just think he is inaccurate or inconsistent with his throws. Also Dylan has a more natural throw for dropping the ball over the LB and under the safeties and things like that, where Shaw is better at throwing straight line darts through a hole.

I felt Connor had to anticipate a hit coming also. If u go back & look at the replay he had either a safety or corner blitzing and stepped in to it knowing a hit was coming. It couldn't have been Tenn...Dylan didnt play against Tenn...Strickland came in for one throw but no Dylan. As far as more accurate...the passing percentage shows Connor is more accurate. We will see what they do next year...happy to have 2 good QBs ready to play

[STEPHONGILMOREFAN!]

i say we dont play either to make it fair. NOSA FOR QB!!!

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by gripitandripit2007

I felt Connor had to anticipate a hit coming also. If u go back & look at the replay he had either a safety or corner blitzing and stepped in to it knowing a hit was coming. It couldn't have been Tenn...Dylan didnt play against Tenn...Strickland came in for one throw but no Dylan. As far as more accurate...the passing percentage shows Connor is more accurate. We will see what they do next year...happy to have 2 good QBs ready to play

I think passing percentage is misleading stat. That is what the whole thread OP was stating. That you can have a high percentage if you just check down all the time and only try to go over the top 2-3 times a game. If you actually watch his pass and the accuracy of where it hits the WR on long throws it is not as good as Thompson, in my opinion.

[trapper82]

Originally Posted by Lalli25

I don't think Dylan's was a perfect throw, no. I don't think it was nearly as difficult a catch as Byrd's. Difference was Dylan threw anticipating the opening and put it in a place where Bruce could adjust and get to it, whereas Shaw didn't have to anticipate but just under threw it a bit, which allowed the defender to make a play on the ball. They are different type of throws, so not exactly perfect comparisons. Shaw did have a very good pass and placed it in a tight spot to Ace in that game. I just think he misses to many guys down the sidelines like Buster Anderson and Shaq in that game, where he threw it out of bounds.

I can't remember the game, it was like Tenn, where Thompson came in and dropped a nice over the shoulder seem route to Bruce, where Shaw had missed the same throw early by a yard or two. It isn't missing it by a lot, but enough that guys can't make a play on the ball. That type of play has to be hit to have a consistent offense. That is where I think Shaw struggles. I do not agree that he has a weak arm. I just think he is inaccurate or inconsistent with his throws. Also Dylan has a more natural throw for dropping the ball over the LB and under the safeties and things like that, where Shaw is better at throwing straight line darts through a hole.

Some of the throws you refer to are not necessarily Shaw's fault. Should Anderson have sat on the route, or gone up the field. Listening to John Gruden at the time, he said it could easily have been either one. You assume it was the QB who had the throw wrong, why? Furthermore, the throw to Byrd was not underthrown. By the time he began working to the post he had to find the ball and he made a play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLP0GUmBUGg

:09 second mark - Shaw begins to bail out of the pocket to his left because of pressure from two defenders. While this is going on, he sees the route he wants is there. His is moving AWAY from his dominant hand by the way, but sets and makes the throw anyway. And he does this all in about 3 seconds, as the ball is snapped before the clock turns to 7 seconds.

:12 second mark - If we call this "making a play on the ball" from a defender, then I'm not exactly sure what we want to happen from a passing perspective. Byrd was EXACTLY on the numbers of the 20 yard line at the :11 second mark. He has to adjust to turn in for the post route, find the ball, and line himself up to catch it at almost the exact middle of the field at the :13 second mark. It was a throw that went from the 43 yard line of the other side of the field to the 3 yard line. Even though its not scored that way in the books, that is where the throw came from. That's 50 yards and 4 full seconds of hang time, with defenders in the pocket. Is it possible that you and others who have made this point out numerous times now are being a little overcritical?

For the life of me, I really can't figure out why we can't just leave it at "trust the coaches." We have numerous people saying this play was underthrown, the player made a play on it, etc. I look at it and say everyone did their job well enough to make a great play that resulted in a touchdown.

[SimpleGamecock]

I have noticed a lot of people (myself included in other threads) mention that it is nice that we have 2 quality SEC quarterbacks going after the starting position. Spurrier himself has mentioned that both QBs will get meaningful snaps. My question is, would you mind seeing a whole season of QBs switching in and out of the game like the Outback Bowl? Or would you prefer to play one the whole game and have the other as back up? I am not trying to suggest that I do not trust the coaches I am just curious what everyone thinks and what their preference is.