Lebron James place in history with his current resume at this point in his career...

[I Bleed Garnet]

Originally Posted by qcgamecock

if the opposing team put a small quick guard ala Mark Jackson in NY, MJ would post them up and drop that tear drop fade away on him until Alan Houston came back over lol

Yea like you said even Jordan with the Wiz had that Post up game working.

[b381l]

Originally Posted by cockypanther

It is definitely fair to say Lebron is possibly the most complete player ever. For Jordan and Kobe you have to remember who their coach was.. Phil Jackson is arguably the greatest coach of all time.

For some reason that I can't explain, but I've always hated Phil Jackson. He's always had the best player and the best talent on the floor.

[Gyle41386]

LeBron had a nice little game-winner tonight against the Magic.

[Rebel4ever]

Had Len Bias (my fav of all time) not died, Jordan would not have 6 rings. Yes he would have 2 or 3 but not 6. Bias would have kept the Celtics going. Wish we could have seen Bias vs. Jordan. Nothing to do with this thread, just want to remind people about the great Len Bias. Especially the younger generation. People forget that Bias was a freak athlete as well.

[FearThethumbandDJ]

GOAT

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by robgusc76

So Michael Jordan was a great player in the post when they put someone other than a post player on him? Thats the complete opposite of what I was saying. lebron can play in the post, with post players.

MJ was a shooting guard who at times early in his career with Collins played the wing meaning he was put in the 3 at times and yes there was not a small forward in the league who could guard him alone, they had to double because MJ was way to quick and the SF would get dunked on. MJ was 6'7 and as fast as any player in the league when he was in his prime, if he caught the ball within 5ft of the basket with his back to the basket and the double was slow no one in the league could stop him, no one! Like LeBron, Magic, Bird... MJ was a Great basketball player who had/has freakish athletic ability, he could catch the ball with a small player on his back and back him to the basket, he could step back ball fake because you have to respect the shot and dunk on larger slower players all day as well as being a master passing out of the double as does LeBron in my opinion. Once they learned to win they were/are different players.
I will tell that if LeBron lets Durant get that taste his ring count will drastically decrease in my mind.
I also read someone state the NBA was better when MJ played, that is a tough statement. I will say this, in my opinion with the world wide appeal of basketball the talent pool is larger and I have no doubt that from players 1-15 the NBA is stronger at the present.

[HowToBeSkeeter]

Originally Posted by Gyle41386

LeBron had a nice little game-winner tonight against the Magic.

Sportscenter tweeted this was his first game winner with less than 10 seconds since he came to Miami... For being the best player on the team, that is really sad.

Frankly, I think LBJ is the most talented player ever in the NBA, by far. The guy is a freak of nature and is completely unstoppable. If Im choosing one NBA player from any point in history to play on my team, Im taking Lebron.

If I'm given a scenario where Im down by 3 in game 7 of the NBA finals with 5 minutes to go, there are at least 5 current players I'd choose above him.

Thusly, I think who the title "best player ever" goes to would depend on the definition of best. If it involves any mention of the word "clutch," LBJ is not the best.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by Rebel4ever

Had Len Bias (my fav of all time) not died, Jordan would not have 6 rings. Yes he would have 2 or 3 but not 6. Bias would have kept the Celtics going. Wish we could have seen Bias vs. Jordan. Nothing to do with this thread, just want to remind people about the great Len Bias. Especially the younger generation. People forget that Bias was a freak athlete as well.

WOW, I have never thought about the Bias situation in this context, that is great fuel for thought. Bias was a very unique talent of size, athleticism, strength and finesse who could dominate a lane. I'm not sure he would have had enough to keep Jordan down, the guy taken in front of him, Brad Daugherty, had no luck.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by HowToBeSkeeter

Sportscenter tweeted this was his first game winner with less than 10 seconds since he came to Miami... For being the best player on the team, that is really sad.

Frankly, I think LBJ is the most talented player ever in the NBA, by far. The guy is a freak of nature and is completely unstoppable. If Im choosing one NBA player from any point in history to play on my team, Im taking Lebron.

If I'm given a scenario where Im down by 3 in game 7 of the NBA finals with 5 minutes to go, there are at least 5 current players I'd choose above him.

Thusly, I think who the title "best player ever" goes to would depend on the definition of best. If it involves any mention of the word "clutch," LBJ is not the best.

This is true but this layup could be the first of many in this season and his career, but at this point I could not agree more.

[b381l]

In my opinion, Bias was better than Jordan in college.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by b381l

In my opinion, Bias was better than Jordan in college.

I will say this, his freshmen and sophomore season do not even compare to Jordan who left after 2 years.

[Gyle41386]

Originally Posted by HowToBeSkeeter

Sportscenter tweeted this was his first game winner with less than 10 seconds since he came to Miami... For being the best player on the team, that is really sad.

Frankly, I think LBJ is the most talented player ever in the NBA, by far. The guy is a freak of nature and is completely unstoppable. If Im choosing one NBA player from any point in history to play on my team, Im taking Lebron.

If I'm given a scenario where Im down by 3 in game 7 of the NBA finals with 5 minutes to go, there are at least 5 current players I'd choose above him.

Thusly, I think who the title "best player ever" goes to would depend on the definition of best. If it involves any mention of the word "clutch," LBJ is not the best.

I'm no Heat fan, but I can't imagine LeBron having been in many situations (if any at all) in Miami where a game-winner with fewer than 10 seconds on the clock was even a possibility.

[Rebel4ever]

Originally Posted by qcgamecock

WOW, I have never thought about the Bias situation in this context, that is great fuel for thought. Bias was a very unique talent of size, athleticism, strength and finesse who could dominate a lane. I'm not sure he would have had enough to keep Jordan down, the guy taken in front of him, Brad Daugherty, had no luck.

But Daugherty was no Bias. Bias could handle Jordan. Daugherty and Bias two different kinds of players. Just a shame we never got to see Bias v. Jordan unfold.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by Rebel4ever

But Daugherty was no Bias. Bias could handle Jordan. Daugherty and Bias two different kinds of players. Just a shame we never got to see Bias v. Jordan unfold.

Agree it is a shame we did not get to see Bias play in the NBA but numbers wise he is very similar to Daugherty who went to north Carolina as a 16 year old freshmen the same year that Bias entered Maryland. At the same time the player picked in front of MJ was not close to the player MJ was lol

[crowcutta]

Originally Posted by Gyle41386

I'm no Heat fan, but I can't imagine LeBron having been in many situations (if any at all) in Miami where a game-winner with fewer than 10 seconds on the clock was even a possibility.

there have been quite a few. in fact their failures in the clutch the first season was a running gag on sportscenter. i dont have the stats in front of me, but i dont recall them being much better last year.


while lebron's story has yet to be finished, the problem he has in a jordan comparison is similar to the same problem kobe has in a jordan comparison. they failed on stages and in ways that jordan never did.

[Gyle41386]

Originally Posted by crowcutta

there have been quite a few. in fact their failures in the clutch the first season was a running gag on sportscenter. i dont have the stats in front of me, but i dont recall them being much better last year.

The number I'm seeing is nine misses in that situation in ~3 years.

[SimpleGamecock]

Lebron is an incredible player but I think the reason he gets a lot of flack is that he doesn't seem to have that "killer" mentality that Jordan, Bird, Kobe has/have. Lebron could dominate today's game whenever he wants but at times he will go through spells where you don't hear about him. Also "The Decision" hurt his image a lot and people can't get over that. None of the guys mentioned prior would have left their teams to join another superstar (or 2) in search of a championship. I know each had the supporting cast Kobe/Shaq, MJ/Scottie Pippen but those teams were assembled like that not 3 All Stars putting together a team themselves. And even look at Kobe he basically forced Shaq out because he wanted to prove he could win on his own.

One other thing for the argument that Lebron is the most complete player I do see the argument and he could when all is said and done but at this point he is not. Not only was MJ winning MVPs and Scoring Titles but also winning Defensive player of the year awards. Lebron is great but at this time I don't think it's fair to say he is the greatest player.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by SimpleGamecock

Lebron is an incredible player but I think the reason he gets a lot of flack is that he doesn't seem to have that "killer" mentality that Jordan, Bird, Kobe has/have. Lebron could dominate today's game whenever he wants but at times he will go through spells where you don't hear about him. Also "The Decision" hurt his image a lot and people can't get over that. None of the guys mentioned prior would have left their teams to join another superstar (or 2) in search of a championship. I know each had the supporting cast Kobe/Shaq, MJ/Scottie Pippen but those teams were assembled like that not 3 All Stars putting together a team themselves. And even look at Kobe he basically forced Shaq out because he wanted to prove he could win on his own.

One other thing for the argument that Lebron is the most complete player I do see the argument and he could when all is said and done but at this point he is not. Not only was MJ winning MVPs and Scoring Titles but also winning Defensive player of the year awards. Lebron is great but at this time I don't think it's fair to say he is the greatest player.

MJ won defensive player of the year once that I remember, but was a consensus All NBA Defensive player most of his career, LeBron has been an NBA All Defensive team most of his career and I could see him winning a defensive player of the year. I agree at this time he can't be called the greatest IMO but he is still in the conversation of having a chance. Remember Kobe left his first NBA team before ever playing a game, he was drafted by Charlotte whom Kobe forced into a trade to LA.
I have a feeling since LeBron has tasted blood last year you will see a killer instinct when someone threatens his crown it in the playoffs, just a hunch.

[qcgamecock]

Originally Posted by crowcutta

there have been quite a few. in fact their failures in the clutch the first season was a running gag on sportscenter. i dont have the stats in front of me, but i dont recall them being much better last year.


while lebron's story has yet to be finished, the problem he has in a jordan comparison is similar to the same problem kobe has in a jordan comparison. they failed on stages and in ways that jordan never did.

When his career is over no one remember, just like all those folks who said MJ could not win, he is selfish, shoots too much, likes poker, he gambles, losing to the Magic in 6....Kobe is not a good teammate, he did something in Aspen, selfish, shoots too much, he does not play defense, sixth man of the year award, shooting 4 air balls in an elimination playoff game his rookie year....I remember the 23, dunks, the shoes, not being able to miss in Portland, hugging the trophy in the locker room, when he is sick he is sick in Boston ,baseball....I remember the 24, 8, clutch shots, 81, the first dunk contest, and of course the draft much more than Jordan getting swept by the Celtics or losing to the pistons 3 years in a row just saying. An awful lot of great players will not win rings due to James and Durant IMO.

[Flameout12]

Dude's a freak...for one man to do what he does...seems like a decent guy as well.