Soccer used to be a brutal/violent sport too.

[2000grad]

Originally Posted by qcgamecock

The guys who played the game with out pads would disagree, I think it kept the smaller guy from putting himself in position to be hit like that but with or without pads if the guy gives you the hit you take it. He must be able to take it or he has not learned any better yet, I remember in practice giving the guys who left themselves open while just wearing a helmet with shorts or shorts and shoulder pads that extra shoulder to keep them alive when the pads came on or quit before getting hurt.

You proved my point. Thanks

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by 2000grad

Guys in football wouldn't be so quick to hit someone so hard if there was not protection. That would definitely stop all the head hunting hits, but give the masses death, and they will love you for it

Football was quite violent before we had all that protection. So much so that Teddy Roosevelt was on the verge of banning the sport during his presidency.

[2000grad]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

Football was quite violent before we had all that protection. So much so that Teddy Roosevelt was on the verge of banning the sport during his presidency.

I'm talking about all the talk TODAY as opposed to the last century. They are concerned about head shots. Fine, end them...a quick way is to do away with protection. Rugby guys do fine without protection.

But, like I said, give them death and they will love you for it...that's really what people want...obviously not death, but I think you get what I am trying to say

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by 2000grad

I'm talking about all the talk TODAY as opposed to the last century. They are concerned about head shots. Fine, end them...a quick way is to do away with protection. Rugby guys do fine without protection.

But, like I said, give them death and they will love you for it...that's really what people want...obviously not death, but I think you get what I am trying to say

Take away the protection, and you'd definitely be giving them death.

Sure, eventually players would adapt, but it would be a bloodbath for some time before they did.

I'm not a fan of bloodbaths.

[2000grad]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

Take away the protection, and you'd definitely be giving them death.

Sure, eventually players would adapt, but it would be a bloodbath for some time before they did.

I'm not a fan of bloodbaths.

I disagree. It has been shown to work in other sports like Rugby. Football has modified rules for player safety recently with the horsecollar tackle and many years ago with the closeline/neck tackle. Why? Too dangerous. Now, you have some people whining that they want to do away with head shots. Good. Helmets should be there IN CASE something happens, not being used as a weapon. That is how spinal injuries happen and people become paralyzed.

[Kaka]

Originally Posted by qcgamecock

How many over 6'7 250lb players are there in soccer, just curious? I played plenty of both and you are correct it is very close, for me it is because I do not like the idea of being kicked in the shin but received more injuries and played much more physical while playing basketball. Not saying that we did not have physical soccer games because we had quite a few, saw 2 kids kick for the ball only to miss hit shins and one snap loudly, it was pretty brutal. I also played in soccer games that I was barely touched by another player and most games went by without incident. I played soccer with the neighborhood Sicilian kids in a school yard behind our apartment in Sicily when I was ten for a summer and it was physical in the box during corners but quite fluid otherwise, the concrete may have had something to do with that lol.
I have never played in a basketball game that I was not fouled hard several times as well as a whole lot of incidental contact in the lane by much larger men then myself since I was a 6' 185 PG. The size difference of players, the position I played at both, and players playing with me have plenty to do with my opinion I'm sure.

you may be completely right and I may be wrong.

The size doesn't matter much because there is not much speed in basketball, a lot of these guys are very slow, unless is boxing where you get punched, basketball players never collide with each other like it happens in soccer.

For example, I remember playing a game against sumter, they had a 6 5" goalkeeper who was supposed to be an all state gk, this guy went for a 50/50 ball with one of our strikers, the striker was looking back at the ball, the keeper was looking at the ball and baammmm...

I though our striker was dead, after a few minutes he reacted and got up but the hit was legit just like legit hits in football or rugby, I have never seen a hit like that in basketball, in soccer you see those hits more often than what you think, a lot of 50/50 hits with speed.

When you go out for a headed too, a lot of the time you have players going head to head, those are very dangerous hits no only in the head but also in the face.

It may be a very close call but I still think soccer is bit more brutal and violent than basketball but you may be right, they may be a little more pushing and more contact in basketball.

If Basketball is more physical, it will have to be really close.

Oh yeah, and dirty tackles are part of the game, as bad as it sound, it happen a lot more often than what most of you think specially in latin America and spain, players are just more dirty in those regions.


At least you are not a soccer hater just trying to hate, you do have some good points.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by 2000grad

I disagree. It has been shown to work in other sports like Rugby. Football has modified rules for player safety recently with the horsecollar tackle and many years ago with the closeline/neck tackle. Why? Too dangerous. Now, you have some people whining that they want to do away with head shots. Good. Helmets should be there IN CASE something happens, not being used as a weapon. That is how spinal injuries happen and people become paralyzed.

old habits die hard.

football players won't be able to change the way they've been playing the game overnight. this muscle memory of theirs assumes for helmets, so if you were to take them away overnight- you'd see horrific accidents that do not occur in other sports without helmets because those other sports have not bred athletes who have those 'bad habits'

[Lalli25]

Originally Posted by cockypanther

I'm not arguing that soccer is a more physical sport, which I don't think it is, I was just pointing out how brutal of an injury the player suffered. And yes, there could be much more brutal fouls in basketball especially with the size of guys in today's game.

Wasn't saying you were. I was using your post to highlight that most of the brutal soccer injuries come from dirty plays.

[2000grad]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

old habits die hard.

football players won't be able to change the way they've been playing the game overnight. this muscle memory of theirs assumes for helmets, so if you were to take them away overnight- you'd see horrific accidents that do not occur in other sports without helmets because those other sports have not bred athletes who have those 'bad habits'

I don't think anyone is suggesting taking away the helmets on Saturday right as they practiced with them that entire week. Bad habits are coached in sports...

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by 2000grad

I don't think anyone is suggesting taking away the helmets on Saturday right as they practiced with them that entire week. Bad habits are coached in sports...

Not trying to argue, but if anyone is suggesting doing away with helmets, then yes...there will be a specific point in time where they are removed. Everything prior to that time, there are helmets...everything after, there are not.

The sport can continue to try and regulate playing habits that are dangerous due to helmets, but they will never eliminate them. Instead, there will just continue to be penalties and fines. Then, if/when the helmets are removed, there would be horrific injuries, just as there were during the days of Teddy Roosevelt. And I do believe that time is relevant, even if it was a long time ago. Those players had no prior history of bad habits developed due to the use of helmets, since helmets didn't come into existence until after TR decided not to outlaw the sport (the advent of the helmet was one of the contributing factors for his decision not to)

[2000grad]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

Not trying to argue, but if anyone is suggesting doing away with helmets, then yes...there will be a specific point in time where they are removed. Everything prior to that time, there are helmets...everything after, there are not.

The sport can continue to try and regulate playing habits that are dangerous due to helmets, but they will never eliminate them. Instead, there will just continue to be penalties and fines. Then, if/when the helmets are removed, there would be horrific injuries, just as there were during the days of Teddy Roosevelt. And I do believe that time is relevant, even if it was a long time ago. Those players had no prior history of bad habits developed due to the use of helmets, since helmets didn't come into existence until after TR decided not to outlaw the sport (the advent of the helmet was one of the contributing factors for his decision not to)

My whole point is that if people wanted them to immediately end quickly, take them away. This is from a rugby player (not me).

Ejecting a player for a game is one thing that might help, but it has to be immediate and swift...not a week later. Maybe a two game suspension.

Rules are placed into sports for fairness as well as safety.

BTW, I don't think that you are trying to argue, I do believe that you are trying to have a healthy discussion and I do appreciate that.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by 2000grad

My whole point is that if people wanted them to immediately end quickly

and it would be a bloodbath. its easy for a rugby player to make this conclusion without recognizing the playing habits that are ingrained throughout the sport of football.

[Kaka]

along with regulating tackles, taking out the helmet from the game may be a good thing.

you have to remember, back then; they didn't have much rules for tackles either.

it is so true that if you have the helmet you will use it as weapon as well because you know the helmet is protecting you, and you gone hit with your helmet. if you don't have the helmet for logical reasons you will be more careful when it comes to tackles.

[FloydTheBarber]

Originally Posted by Kaka

along with regulating tackles, taking out the helmet from the game may be a good thing.

you have to remember, back then; they didn't have much rules for tackles either.

it is so true that if you have the helmet you will use it as weapon as well because you know the helmet is protecting you, and you gone hit with your helmet. if you don't have the helmet for logical reasons you will be more careful when it comes to tackles.

Again, old habits die hard. Players have been playing their entire lives this way, so if you took the helmet away, it would take a horrific and brutal period of time for their muscle memory to be 're-trained'

people would die.

[2000grad]

Originally Posted by FloydTheBarber

Again, old habits die hard. Players have been playing their entire lives this way, so if you took the helmet away, it would take a horrific and brutal period of time for their muscle memory to be 're-trained'

people would die.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Years ago, soccer changed a rule, you cannot purposely pass backwards to the goalie and he could play the ball with his hands. You didn't see people doing this so much that the game was a mess because of it and free kicks were awarded several times a game.

I grew up playing backyard football where we didn't lead with our heads because there were no helmets. I also used to play football with some HS players and we would go out to a youth football field and play tackle football. No one lead with their heads because they knew they could not do it. Had nothing to do with muscle memory IMO

[Sonofacock]

Well Cricket is a fun sport.

I honestly do not understand all of the hate towards soccer and soccer haters. Some people grew up playing soccer and will defend it until the day they die. Others grew up playing other sports and will defend those. I personally do not like to watch soccer, but enjoy the other big 3, but I do enjoy playing soccer with friends. Sure soccer used to be brutal, who cares, and what exactly are you trying to prove? Just like what you like and don't worry what others think. Soccer will not be as popular as football in America, because we spend more money on football. Most all sports were more brutal years ago before lawyers and unions got involved. Watch football from the 70's, Jack Tatum killed a guy on the field.
Rant Over

[Kaka]

Originally Posted by Sonofacock

Well Cricket is a fun sport.

I honestly do not understand all of the hate towards soccer and soccer haters. Some people grew up playing soccer and will defend it until the day they die. Others grew up playing other sports and will defend those. I personally do not like to watch soccer, but enjoy the other big 3, but I do enjoy playing soccer with friends. Sure soccer used to be brutal, who cares, and what exactly are you trying to prove? Just like what you like and don't worry what others think. Soccer will not be as popular as football in America, because we spend more money on football. Most all sports were more brutal years ago before lawyers and unions got involved. Watch football from the 70's, Jack Tatum killed a guy on the field.
Rant Over

I opened this thread because there was a thread talking of a possible new rule in football about ejecting a player from the game, a lot of soccer haters started attacking soccer on that thread for no reason, most of them ignorant on the sport they "hate."

I know they will always find a reason to hate soccer, haters will be haters not matter what, but at least, its good to educate them a little bit, just so they don't look like complete idi.ots talking of a sport they know nothing about.

I don't want to get political in here but this is the reason why I hate people like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck with a passion, they make every American seen fat, dumb and uneducated, they represent primitive America, they have a fan base of primitive Americans too, people with absolutely no education and no respect for others.

With free access to the internet and google, it should be a crime nowadays to be so ignorant about certain things. Really

As a new American, I feel embarrassed by some of these uneducated Americans, research on subjects before you open your mouth.

I am hoping I never get to be in front of anybody from fox news, I will completely punch any of them, the same goes for some reporters on ESPN, they are so ignorant and so disrespectful, its like being "dumb and ignorant" its a "cool" thing in America right now, its not.

[stiffolcock]

Originally Posted by Kaka

I opened this thread because there was a thread talking of a possible new rule in football about ejecting a player from the game, a lot of soccer haters started attacking soccer on that thread for no reason, most of them ignorant on the sport they "hate."

I know they will always find a reason to hate soccer, haters will be haters not matter what, but at least, its good to educate them a little bit, just so they don't look like complete idi.ots talking of a sport they know nothing about.

I don't want to get political in here but this is the reason why I hate people like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck with a passion, they make every American seen fat, dumb and uneducated, they represent primitive America, they have a fan base of primitive Americans too, people with absolutely no education and no respect for others.

With free access to the internet and google, it should be a crime nowadays to be so ignorant about certain things. Really

As a new American, I feel embarrassed by some of these uneducated Americans, research on subjects before you open your mouth.

I am hoping I never get to be in front of anybody from fox news, I will completely punch any of them, the same goes for some reporters on ESPN, they are so ignorant and so disrespectful, its like being "dumb and ignorant" its a "cool" thing in America right now, its not.

so let me get this straight..... i dont like soccer, i am dumb, ignorant and primitive. soccer fans are, i would have to assume, evolved, smarter, more advanced. to prove this, you call someone voicing their opinion on a sport "primitive, etc". my, how advanced you are to attack the person over their opinion of a sport......

[stiffolcock]

this guy sums it up in the first minute. for you neanderthals out there.....

[cockinraleigh]

Originally Posted by stiffolcock

so let me get this straight..... i dont like soccer, i am dumb, ignorant and primitive. soccer fans are, i would have to assume, evolved, smarter, more advanced. to prove this, you call someone voicing their opinion on a sport "primitive, etc". my, how advanced you are to attack the person over their opinion of a sport......

That's why everybody hates "soccer guy". See it's not so much the sport as it is "soccer guy" having to throw soccer crap into any sports related conversation a group of people are having. Then proceed to tell you how it's the most popular sport in the world, how much better athletes they are, blah blah blah. Then I guess kaka is saying you're dumb if you don't like soccer.