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Old 12-03-2013, 01:56 PM   #161
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

I just wish Thompson would have either a) had more opportunities to play this year or b) had done more with the chances he did have. For all the excitement about what he's done we still haven't seen Thompson go against a solid SEC level defense. We've seen a couple different QBs who either earned time for paying their dues or looked good against decent teams but then were shaky against better opponents and neither Beecher nor Smelley finished their career as Gamecocks. We've also watched a QB in Garcia who had "mechanical flaws" that were going to be fixed with offseason work with Mangus and he actually got worse the longer he was here.

There are no guarantees with any player so let's all hope regardless of who wins the job there are others ready to step in if they falter.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #162
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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I can see were people get the growing pains deal from. How many growing pains did Johnny Manziel and Jameis Winston have over the past couple of years though? Now be it that Connor Mitch may not be as athletic as those two. Wouldnt it be better to put Connor Mitch in there with a bucnch of experienced guys than completely starting brand new with everyone in 2015? That way when 2015 comes Mitch will be an experienced guy leading the young guns. Also as someone else posted earlier I dont think Steve Spurrier brought Connor Mitch in to sit on the bench, he was the hand chosen one by Spurrier and I think that speeks volume.
Those examples (as you go on to state) are the exception, not the norm. Mitch may (and I hope) end up being the best to ever play here, but not even A&M thought Manziel would turn in to JFF. And Winston is a once a decade at his position.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #163
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

Dylan has some of the fanbase on edge after "struggling" against Mizzou and thats fair. He wasn't very sharp with his accuracy and he doesn't make plays with his feet. But in fairness to him, he had 3 drives where he was just snakebit. It happens.

And then there is that "newness" factor with Nosovitch and Mitch. People are ready to see the new toys and rightfully so. These guys had a bunch of accolades coming out of high school; way more than you could say about Connor Shaw and Dylan. But this offense is probably more complexed than Jimbo or Sumlin's systems, and probably will become even more complexed if Spurrier digs up old Florida stuff for his dropback guys. It does take time to learn and also Spurrier probably drills mechanics harder than anyone. Truthfully, Nosovitch probably should be the guy everyone is talking about at the moment. He will have 3 years in the system. He has a good build, a little taller and thicker than Connor Shaw. He has a good arm, and some mobility (not a lot of shake). Coach Mangus loved his leadership qualities in high school and he does come from a winning program. If the offensive line really has trouble protecting the passer next season, he could end up playing out of necessity. Who knows? But it does seem like next Spring is his "do or die" moment. Spurrier has already mentioned that he could help the team elsewhere and I do believe he has played some special teams. So this Spring quite possibly could be his last audition.

Then you look at a guy like Mitch. Gotta love the physical makeup. On the outside, he has it all. He is still battling a few mechanical problems but so is Thompson. Still, its going to take a bit for the mental part to come around. Learning the playbook, getting the timing down, etc etc. Sure, playing time would accelerate all of that, but at what cost? Losing games so a freshman can get through his growing pains? Probably not a good idea right now. If there wasn't so much returning on offense, maybe you do go ahead and give him the keys or implement a QB rotation. But when you have a guy that has done everything you asked (like his predecessor), has been in the system for 5 years, and has won you football games when call upon .. you gotta go with him first.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:11 PM   #164
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Originally Posted by kabercr2 View Post
I can see were people get the growing pains deal from. How many growing pains did Johnny Manziel and Jameis Winston have over the past couple of years though? Now be it that Connor Mitch may not be as athletic as those two. Wouldnt it be better to put Connor Mitch in there with a bucnch of experienced guys than completely starting brand new with everyone in 2015? That way when 2015 comes Mitch will be an experienced guy leading the young guns. Also as someone else posted earlier I dont think Steve Spurrier brought Connor Mitch in to sit on the bench, he was the hand chosen one by Spurrier and I think that speeks volume.

Dylan was also hand chosen by Spurrier. I'm amazed that people are ready to name Mitch the starter without having ever seen him take a snap in an actual game.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:27 PM   #165
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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I have explained enough to you, in one of your posts you said Dylan will start next year so let it go, I disagree that he played bad against mizz as you said and disagree he regressed this year compared to last since it is impossible to compare them. Innately flawed would have you throw out the INT Thompson threw on 4th and 28 to end the 1st half against ucf since you would not punt with no time on the clock....little things like that skew stats same as running a QB sweep for a TD instead of throwing it so I include those scores as well as fumbles in my analysis that you call innately flawed....I'm curious what you think made Thompson go from the QB you enjoyed and I watched wax clemsux in clemsux to what you call a regressed QB in 12 months?
you've explained your opinions but you can't explain how you could rush for a td on a passing play. and its that that make your numbers flawed. its possible to punt on 4th and 28 to end the first half. not smart but possible. it is categorically impossible to rush for a td while throwing a pass. and that is what makes dividing rushing and passing tds by passing plays erroneous.

and all the stats are telling you is that in fewer passing attempts he through more interceptions (or if you wanna discount one of them, as many interceptions) as he did the previous year in less pass attempts. and that is the definition of regressing. doing worse over time. I hope that the reason is that he didnt get first team snaps, but I have my doubts that first team snaps make your passes fly over the heads of receivers like we all saw against missouri. that is a mechanical problem and not a timing problem.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:31 PM   #166
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Dylan has some of the fanbase on edge after "struggling" against Mizzou and thats fair. He wasn't very sharp with his accuracy and he doesn't make plays with his feet. But in fairness to him, he had 3 drives where he was just snakebit. It happens.

And then there is that "newness" factor with Nosovitch and Mitch. People are ready to see the new toys and rightfully so. These guys had a bunch of accolades coming out of high school; way more than you could say about Connor Shaw and Dylan. But this offense is probably more complexed than Jimbo or Sumlin's systems, and probably will become even more complexed if Spurrier digs up old Florida stuff for his dropback guys. It does take time to learn and also Spurrier probably drills mechanics harder than anyone. Truthfully, Nosovitch probably should be the guy everyone is talking about at the moment. He will have 3 years in the system. He has a good build, a little taller and thicker than Connor Shaw. He has a good arm, and some mobility (not a lot of shake). Coach Mangus loved his leadership qualities in high school and he does come from a winning program. If the offensive line really has trouble protecting the passer next season, he could end up playing out of necessity. Who knows? But it does seem like next Spring is his "do or die" moment. Spurrier has already mentioned that he could help the team elsewhere and I do believe he has played some special teams. So this Spring quite possibly could be his last audition.

Then you look at a guy like Mitch. Gotta love the physical makeup. On the outside, he has it all. He is still battling a few mechanical problems but so is Thompson. Still, its going to take a bit for the mental part to come around. Learning the playbook, getting the timing down, etc etc. Sure, playing time would accelerate all of that, but at what cost? Losing games so a freshman can get through his growing pains? Probably not a good idea right now. If there wasn't so much returning on offense, maybe you do go ahead and give him the keys or implement a QB rotation. But when you have a guy that has done everything you asked (like his predecessor), has been in the system for 5 years, and has won you football games when call upon .. you gotta go with him first.
I could easily see Mitch getting playing time against FCS teams similar to what DT got this year to help accelerate his growth and I like your insight on this being a make or break year for Noso. I think this years spring game is going to be fun to watch.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:44 PM   #167
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Truthfully, Nosovitch probably should be the guy everyone is talking about at the moment. He will have 3 years in the system. He has a good build, a little taller and thicker than Connor Shaw. He has a good arm, and some mobility (not a lot of shake). Coach Mangus loved his leadership qualities in high school and he does come from a winning program. If the offensive line really has trouble protecting the passer next season, he could end up playing out of necessity. Who knows? But it does seem like next Spring is his "do or die" moment. Spurrier has already mentioned that he could help the team elsewhere and I do believe he has played some special teams. So this Spring quite possibly could be his last audition.
I'm a Nosovitch fan, or at least hope to be. But I can't think of any other position he could play besides the one he is playing. Not for us at least. He could bulk up and be a fullback, but that's about it. And we have guys who do that pretty well already, and Joe Blue coming in.

I don't know why you say Spring is his do or die time. You don't think he will play at all next year if he doesn't shine? Based on everything I ever saw in spring games, I would have sworn on a stack of bibles that Dylan Thompson was going to be Dickie Demasi II, based on what I saw. Then he got on the field and did quite well last season.

I don't know whether Spurrier is going back to the fun and gun or not. Or even try.

But Mitch and Scarnecchia have one thing in common, that is both are statues. They can't run at at all.

Now we could argue drop back passers vs spread qb's all day. To me the argument is over. Unless you can field a dominant, and I mean dominant offensive line every year, like Alabama and Stanford, you are making a mistake running the pro set.

There are takes on the spread that are total pass like the Air Raid, that have other ways to deal with the pass rush.

But the kind of offense everyone wants here, the one with a tailback, lead blocker, and seven step drops isn't going to work here.

That is my opinion. Anyone can flame it if they want. But unless we can just start pointing at 5 star players in Georgia, NC, and Florida and say "You, you are playing offensive line for us" it isn't going to work.

And to be honest, if you aren't serious about throwing the ball (Alabama isn't, Stanford wants to run but will be happy to pass if that is what you are giving), you are better off running a spread. Or the old Nebraska offense.

In closing I want to say two things.

1) With the talent this state puts out, and what I think we can reliably recruit every year, it is a total mistake for us to have a quarterback who can't run.

Ever.

2) There have been lots of pro-set offenses that had guys play four solid years in them, and contribute as freshmen. Intricate offenses, like 80's BYU, and some others I could name but am too lazy.

Spurrier's is different. I think the thing is too damn complicated. For qb's and wide receivers. Whatever it gives you, is totally negated by how long it takes for patterns to develop, and the number of reads and decisions it requires a qb to make. Other teams toss the ball around and have freshmen contribute from day one. Why is this one so hard?

The man has done pretty well as a coach. Most of that I attribute to his stellar playcalling and instincts, not how sound his offensive scheme is (at least what he had at Florida and tried to run at Washington).

And they are not the same thing.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:50 PM   #168
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

No, not a lock.
Currently the front runner.

If his accuracy doesn't improve, or his consistency, Nosovitch or Mitch will have a chance to unseat him.

Just like every position on the field...you have to earn it.

Mike Davis will have to earn his starting spot again, as will a guy like Skai Moore, JT Surratt or a senior like Sharrod Golightly.

The best players play...if you don't come back in shape, don't come back giving full effort and the guys behind you are playing better, those guys should play. Period.

That same mentality also goes for the QB.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:01 PM   #169
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

Nosovitch played Safety in high school. A few recruiting services thought that would be his long term position.

I said it is his 'do or die' time because of what Spurrier said this season. He said that Brendan could help the team elsewhere if QB didn't work out and that he is a great athlete. And I'm fairly certain he has been on punt coverage.

You can field a dominant offensive line without 4 and 5 stars. Petrino's results at Arkansas negate all the talk about those kind of offenses no longer working. He proved they do, and he did it in the toughest division in the SEC.

One thing USC currently doesn't have that Petrino's Arkansas teams had is a diverse run game out of their base offense. They ran a lot of power plays out of the I, single back, and then mixed in draws. They really mixed it up. Our current run game is very bland. Its either the read play or an inside handoff out of the shotgun with speed option or QB sweeps mixed in. And if we get into the I, its a off-tackle with a pulling guard. This is going to have to change with a less mobile QB at the helm. The coaches have got to find a way to spice up the running game this offseason in our base offense.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:08 PM   #170
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Nosovitch played Safety in high school. A few recruiting services thought that would be his long term position.

I said it is his 'do or die' time because of what Spurrier said this season. He said that Brendan could help the team elsewhere if QB didn't work out and that he is a great athlete. And I'm fairly certain he has been on punt coverage.

You can field a dominant offensive line without 4 and 5 stars. Petrino's results at Arkansas negate all the talk about those kind of offenses no longer working. He proved they do, and he did it in the toughest division in the SEC.

One thing USC currently doesn't have that Petrino's Arkansas teams had is a diverse run game out of their base offense. They ran a lot of power plays out of the I, single back, and then mixed in draws. They really mixed it up. Our current run game is very bland. Its either the read play or an inside handoff out of the shotgun with speed option or QB sweeps mixed in. And if we get into the I, its a off-tackle with a pulling guard. This is going to have to change with a less mobile QB at the helm. The coaches have got to find a way to spice up the running game this offseason in our base offense.
I sure hope they do
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #171
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Nosovitch played Safety in high school. A few recruiting services thought that would be his long term position.

I said it is his 'do or die' time because of what Spurrier said this season. He said that Brendan could help the team elsewhere if QB didn't work out and that he is a great athlete. And I'm fairly certain he has been on punt coverage.

You can field a dominant offensive line without 4 and 5 stars. Petrino's results at Arkansas negate all the talk about those kind of offenses no longer working. He proved they do, and he did it in the toughest division in the SEC.

One thing USC currently doesn't have that Petrino's Arkansas teams had is a diverse run game out of their base offense. They ran a lot of power plays out of the I, single back, and then mixed in draws. They really mixed it up. Our current run game is very bland. Its either the read play or an inside handoff out of the shotgun with speed option or QB sweeps mixed in. And if we get into the I, its a off-tackle with a pulling guard. This is going to have to change with a less mobile QB at the helm. The coaches have got to find a way to spice up the running game this offseason in our base offense.
Agreed. Hopefully its not a lot of wildcat.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:13 PM   #172
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Agreed. Hopefully its not a lot of wildcat.
wildcat with cooper was affective, but it doesnt really address the need for diversity in the run game because it is a completely different formation. aka its not going to help us once DT (or whoever) gets back under center
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #173
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

Yeah, it was ok, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts 28 wouldn't have tripped and fell down on that one to the left (the only one with a decent hole).
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #174
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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you've explained your opinions but you can't explain how you could rush for a td on a passing play. and its that that make your numbers flawed. its possible to punt on 4th and 28 to end the first half. not smart but possible. it is categorically impossible to rush for a td while throwing a pass. and that is what makes dividing rushing and passing tds by passing plays erroneous.

and all the stats are telling you is that in fewer passing attempts he through more interceptions (or if you wanna discount one of them, as many interceptions) as he did the previous year in less pass attempts. and that is the definition of regressing. doing worse over time. I hope that the reason is that he didnt get first team snaps, but I have my doubts that first team snaps make your passes fly over the heads of receivers like we all saw against missouri. that is a mechanical problem and not a timing problem.
You are right no QB ever scrambled looking for receivers on a pass play only to run for a TD and no one said it was not possible to punt on 4th and 28 without time on the clock! Please stop I feel like I'm debating a 5 year old.
We all saw him pass for over 200yds passing in 1 half of football on 15 of 27 for 56% and at most 12 passes flew over the heads of receivers but we know that is not correct since as I told you he had several drops, just terrible????
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #175
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Yeah, it was ok, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts 28 wouldn't have tripped and fell down on that one to the left (the only one with a decent hole).
almost certain. whether or not the hole would have been there or not is another question. one thing for certain is that it doesnt help keep the defense guessing when we're in our base offense.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #176
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Originally Posted by kabercr2 View Post
I can see were people get the growing pains deal from. How many growing pains did Johnny Manziel and Jameis Winston have over the past couple of years though? Now be it that Connor Mitch may not be as athletic as those two. Wouldnt it be better to put Connor Mitch in there with a bucnch of experienced guys than completely starting brand new with everyone in 2015? That way when 2015 comes Mitch will be an experienced guy leading the young guns. Also as someone else posted earlier I dont think Steve Spurrier brought Connor Mitch in to sit on the bench, he was the hand chosen one by Spurrier and I think that speeks volume.
Then why did he sit on the bench this year, so he did not bring him in to sit on the bench except his FR year. He brought Thompson in to play and compete with the most successful QB in USC history only to sit on the bench his RS SR year behind a guy who has yet to throw an NCAA pass or even get in a game, yeah that is a great basis for a debate.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #177
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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Nosovitch played Safety in high school. A few recruiting services thought that would be his long term position.

I said it is his 'do or die' time because of what Spurrier said this season. He said that Brendan could help the team elsewhere if QB didn't work out and that he is a great athlete. And I'm fairly certain he has been on punt coverage.

You can field a dominant offensive line without 4 and 5 stars. Petrino's results at Arkansas negate all the talk about those kind of offenses no longer working. He proved they do, and he did it in the toughest division in the SEC.

One thing USC currently doesn't have that Petrino's Arkansas teams had is a diverse run game out of their base offense. They ran a lot of power plays out of the I, single back, and then mixed in draws. They really mixed it up. Our current run game is very bland. Its either the read play or an inside handoff out of the shotgun with speed option or QB sweeps mixed in. And if we get into the I, its a off-tackle with a pulling guard. This is going to have to change with a less mobile QB at the helm. The coaches have got to find a way to spice up the running game this offseason in our base offense.
Fully agree.
We can't depend on the zone read with Dylan...we can still use it, but I think, especially if Dylan is our guy, we are better served in the I formation (seemed it did better in that).

I'd like to see us use more sweeps to get guys like Carson and Davis to the edge.

Next year's offense has the potnetial to be a whole new animal with the skill guys we have coming back. I jsut don't want to see that potential wasted on bland run-game calling.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:28 PM   #178
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

It's Dylan's job to lose. Spurrier said it's his team next year.

I like the idea of a 5th year Sr QB who is only taking ballroom dancing and can gameplan and study film all year long.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:06 PM   #179
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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You are right no QB ever scrambled looking for receivers on a pass play only to run for a TD

it didnt count as a pass attempt when he scrambled. your lack of comprehension has more to do with you inability to understand the concept that if you are going to look at total tds you need to divide by total plays aka both rushing and passing attempts than it does my age. it is a pretty simple concept.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:07 PM   #180
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Default Re: Is Dylan a lock for being our starting QB next season?

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We all saw him pass for over 200yds passing in 1 half of football on 15 of 27 for 56% and at most 12 passes flew over the heads of receivers but we know that is not correct since as I told you he had several drops, just terrible????
200 plus yards with 56% passes to our team, 4% to the other team, and 0% into the endzone. that is not a good game or half.
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