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Old 12-04-2013, 04:31 PM   #161
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Default Re: Playstation 4

From what I have been able to tell the graphical differences have more to do with the different versions of the games. Some games have a 720p NR on one console while the other it is 1080p NR. Also from what I am seeing the Xbox verisons tend to use higher contrast and vibrant color and gama, but you can always make adjustments on your TV to make up for that.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:05 PM   #162
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Default Re: Playstation 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
From what I have been able to tell the graphical differences have more to do with the different versions of the games. Some games have a 720p NR on one console while the other it is 1080p NR. Also from what I am seeing the Xbox verisons tend to use higher contrast and vibrant color and gama, but you can always make adjustments on your TV to make up for that.

it's just something for douchebag fanbois to talk about...i think it makes them think their peen is bigger in real life as a result.

as a previous poster said, the gaming experience is going to be the same on either of these fantastic consoles. period. nobody is going to be able to tell a difference during actual, live, honest to goodness gameplay. period.

but, the internet sucks...so we have to suffer through this crap again. it was the same way around here when the ps3/360 crap was raging. and the same poster.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:27 AM   #163
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
From what I have been able to tell the graphical differences have more to do with the different versions of the games. Some games have a 720p NR on one console while the other it is 1080p NR. Also from what I am seeing the Xbox verisons tend to use higher contrast and vibrant color and gama, but you can always make adjustments on your TV to make up for that.
1080p means 56% more pixels being rendered by the GPU on the screen than 720p. 56% more clarity.

As I've said before. It wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't for the fact you're getting a more powerful console that's 100 dollars less. You're getting 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM with the PS4 vs. 8 GB of old DDR3 RAM in the Xbox. You're also getting a more powerful GPU on the PS4.

If the Xbox was the same price or cheaper, it wouldn't be an issue. You're playing the same great games on PS4, except with better performance.

This is partly why PS4 sales are about double those of the Xbox One so far. Another reason of course is the disingenuous nature of Microsoft (whole DRM, high Xbox 360 failure rates, and other PR scandals) that has driven people away from the brand.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:58 AM   #164
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by womfalcs3 View Post
1080p means 56% more pixels being rendered by the GPU on the screen than 720p. 56% more clarity.

As I've said before. It wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't for the fact you're getting a more powerful console that's 100 dollars less. You're getting 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM with the PS4 vs. 8 GB of old DDR3 RAM in the Xbox. You're also getting a more powerful GPU on the PS4.

If the Xbox was the same price or cheaper, it wouldn't be an issue. You're playing the same great games on PS4, except with better performance.

This is partly why PS4 sales are about double those of the Xbox One so far. Another reason of course is the disingenuous nature of Microsoft (whole DRM, high Xbox 360 failure rates, and other PR scandals) that has driven people away from the brand.
The Xbone also has a RAM buffer that completely negates the RAM version difference.

The Xbone has 1080P when it needs 1080P, which is when the game is created to do so (such as Ryse and Forza). Has nothing to do with the capabilities of the console and everything about the capabilities of the game.


I can assure you, regardless of whether you are a Microsoft hater or not, they know computer hardware and its capabilities and don't necessarily have to overcompensate with potentially better hardware items themselves, because they are able to get the same effect with less.

Doesn't matter what you're a fan of, I'm not the hugest Microsoft supporter myself, you still have to look at all the facts and not just the ones that stop with a specs list online.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:21 AM   #165
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by bmccall View Post
The Xbone also has a RAM buffer that completely negates the RAM version difference.

The Xbone has 1080P when it needs 1080P, which is when the game is created to do so (such as Ryse and Forza). Has nothing to do with the capabilities of the console and everything about the capabilities of the game.


I can assure you, regardless of whether you are a Microsoft hater or not, they know computer hardware and its capabilities and don't necessarily have to overcompensate with potentially better hardware items themselves, because they are able to get the same effect with less.

Doesn't matter what you're a fan of, I'm not the hugest Microsoft supporter myself, you still have to look at all the facts and not just the ones that stop with a specs list online.
You honestly think developers chose to make Call of Duty, Battlefield, and AC IV run at higher resolutions on PS4 because they felt "the Xbone didn't need 1080p"? By the way, Critek couldn't get ryse to run at 1080p.


Also, the buffer you speak of is 0.031 GB with a bandwidth of 192 GB/sec. The PS4's 8 GB of GDDR5 has a max of 176 GB/sec. Believe me, 0.031 GB transferring data SLIGHTLY faster doesn't mean much compared to 8 GB at 176 GB/sec. The remaining 8 GB DDR3 on the Xbox transfers data at just 68 GB/sec.

Last edited by womfalcs3; 12-05-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:03 PM   #166
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by womfalcs3 View Post
You honestly think developers chose to make Call of Duty, Battlefield, and AC IV run at higher resolutions on PS4 because they felt "the Xbone didn't need 1080p"? By the way, Critek couldn't get ryse to run at 1080p.


Also, the buffer you speak of is 0.031 GB with a bandwidth of 192 GB/sec. The PS4's 8 GB of GDDR5 has a max of 176 GB/sec. Believe me, 0.031 GB transferring data SLIGHTLY faster doesn't mean much compared to 8 GB at 176 GB/sec. The remaining 8 GB DDR3 on the Xbox transfers data at just 68 GB/sec.


Hardware capabilities does not exactly equal performance advantages. Its how well you use what you have and its capabilities. Microsoft knows how to get the most out of hardware, Sony just adds more muscle because they don't have the resources available to optimize what they have and Microsoft does.

Frame rate > Resolution as far as the over all look of a game as far as I'm concerned, though Forza I know runs at 1080P. So the question of capability goes out the window with that and overtime more and more Xbone games will come out with 1080P. On top of that, Microsoft is known for continually tweaking, so firmware updates will continue to become available as more capabilities are uncovered and tested.

Either is fine, but from someone familiar with both systems, I don't see any noticeable difference. I am a fan of both systems btw. But neither is vastly superior in reality...at least not right now.

I do know that anyone would be silly to think that Microsoft would be dumb enough to put out a profoundly weaker hardware when they know what the competitor is putting out there.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:23 PM   #167
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Default Re: Playstation 4

70% chance Mullaly jettisons xbox to lenovo or some other chinese manufacturer.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:29 PM   #168
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by bmccall View Post
Hardware capabilities does not exactly equal performance advantages. Its how well you use what you have and its capabilities. Microsoft knows how to get the most out of hardware, Sony just adds more muscle because they don't have the resources available to optimize what they have and Microsoft does.

Frame rate > Resolution as far as the over all look of a game as far as I'm concerned, though Forza I know runs at 1080P. So the question of capability goes out the window with that and overtime more and more Xbone games will come out with 1080P. On top of that, Microsoft is known for continually tweaking, so firmware updates will continue to become available as more capabilities are uncovered and tested.

Either is fine, but from someone familiar with both systems, I don't see any noticeable difference. I am a fan of both systems btw. But neither is vastly superior in reality...at least not right now.

I do know that anyone would be silly to think that Microsoft would be dumb enough to put out a profoundly weaker hardware when they know what the competitor is putting out there.
Its not even debatable at this point. the PS4 is just very more powerful than xbox one. Many games run better[more fps] on PS4 at 1080p compared to 720p/900p on xbox one. That is a massive difference.

Ms really drop the ball with xbox one. The higher price with low power hardware just so they could force kinect on people. That was a very bad move, IMO!

Also xbox one UI/os is just broken and half baked. How they over looked not even having a battery meter so you can check the controller is just mind blowing. Also they have just wreck the best party system[x360] with something doesnt even WORK! http://www.edge-online.com/features/...one-interface/

Everyone i know have jumped from x360 to PS4. PS4 is a gaming machine at heart. It clear soon as you put a game in it. It takes under 45sec to start playing a game unlike xbox one you have to wait 8 min to 30 min! http://kotaku.com/installing-xbox-on...ong-1471191836

xbox one just needs a lot of work and im sure it will be good in a couple years but no way i would suggest someone buy it over a ps4 right now. Xbox one needs a lot of work to UI/OS and needs to be a lot cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
From what I have been able to tell the graphical differences have more to do with the different versions of the games. Some games have a 720p NR on one console while the other it is 1080p NR. Also from what I am seeing the Xbox verisons tend to use higher contrast and vibrant color and gama, but you can always make adjustments on your TV to make up for that.
That "higher contrast and vibrant color and gama" is actually a bug and it ruins the PQ. Its problem caused by the low quality upscaler in the xbox one. Ryse got around this by using a software scaler.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/17...mes-look-worse

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/17...mes-look-worse
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:34 PM   #169
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by USC-fan View Post
Its not even debatable at this point. the PS4 is just very more powerful than xbox one. Many games run better[more fps] on PS4 at 1080p compared to 720p/900p on xbox one. That is a massive difference.



Well first off, the PS4 has the same FPS rate as the Xbone. 60 FPS. And most games on both systems run at that frame rate.

And frame rate has nothing to do with resolution.

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Old 12-05-2013, 12:38 PM   #170
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by bmccall View Post
Well first off, the PS4 has the same FPS rate as the Xbone. 60 FPS. And FPS has nothing to do with resolution.
that is just not correct.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...t-gen-face-off
As you can see in this article the bf4 runs at 900p on ps4 and 720p on xbox one while the ps4 framerate is also a lot better. So you have the ps4 pushing 56% more pixels at a better frame rate.

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Old 12-05-2013, 12:41 PM   #171
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Default Re: Playstation 4

Yes. As USC-fan shows, the PS4 version of Battlefiled 4 runs at around 10 frames per second higher during the campaign as the Xbox One.

The PS4's GPU is able to render not only more pixels on the screen, but also do so at a higher frame rate.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:47 PM   #172
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Default Re: Playstation 4

I can see that a website says that is runs at a higher FPS. I do not see anything factual saying so.

You can always find online articles that match any point you are trying to make. That does not make them factual.

For example this one here stating that PS4 has had reported FPS issues and that Battlefield runs at 900p resolution on the PS4. Not saying its factual, but there it is, in an ONLINE ARTICLE!!! Must be real, right? But probably not considering it counters what you guys are saying.

http://www.gizmag.com/xbox-one-plays...ormance/29749/

SEE: Resolutiongate

Nothing is wrong with you guys being PS4 homers and I didn't come in here to troll but rather to converse. But to have this type of conversation, I do agree with your one point in that everyone should be factual, which can't be proven in online articles.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:53 PM   #173
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Default Re: Playstation 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmccall View Post
I can see that a website says that is runs at a higher FPS. I do not see anything factual saying so.

You can always find online articles that match any point you are trying to make. That does not make them factual.

For example this one here stating that PS4 has had reported FPS issues and that Battlefield runs at 900p resolution on the PS4. Not saying its factual, but there it is, in an ONLINE ARTICLE!!! Must be real, right?

http://www.gizmag.com/xbox-one-plays...ormance/29749/

SEE: Resolutiongate
Im not quoting some random websites. It digital foundary. Maybe you are not that into gaming so you do not know who they are. But they are the main website for game face off.

Also bf4 does run at 900p and 720p on xbox one, also have frame issue on both platform. They are not locked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4gaVvHXNC8

Here shows the frame rate of both versions. It clear the ps4 run the game better. Not even debatable.

Im just a hard core gamer so i know all about this stuff.... its not like im doing random google searches just searching stuff.

yeah just say these guys are "ps4 homer" and define factual debate by your terms. You just cant reason with some people...
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:55 PM   #174
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Default Re: Playstation 4

But since you believe everything you read on the internet, here is some more:

http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS...and_Framerates

They are all (games) natively the same for the most part.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:58 PM   #175
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by USC-fan View Post

Im just a hard core gamer so i know all about this stuff.... its not like im doing random google searches just searching stuff.

I just work for a software company. In my time here we have done everything from developing, QA testing, support, training different software programs. I have been here since 2008.

So before you go, that route, its fairly important to know the background of the person you are speaking to, mostly because, you don't know what they know.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:22 PM   #176
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by bmccall View Post
The Xbone also has a RAM buffer that completely negates the RAM version difference.
OMG. If feels really weird to be arguing along side Womfalcs but he is correct. I have been an Xbox fan at heart for the last 2 generations and in the last 2 generations I feel that Microsoft put out the better machine. I was almost exclusively 360 although I did own a PS3. Anyone who was around for this argument during the 360/PS3 debates knows that I defended xbox 360 as the better choice, mainly because of the Unified RAM pool and the superior graphics processor. So believe me, I don't say it lightly. The PS4 is the Superior games machine. That is not to say that games are not great on the xbone. I will be getting one pretty soon. It's just that there is no way to argue against facts in this case.

As I pointed out before:

First
Both systems use the SAME AMD Jaguar CPU combined with the SAME GPU as a system on a chip.

The difference is that the PS4 GPU is 50% more powerful than the xbone version of the same GPU. This means that there is a certain degree of scalability or, in other words, Developers don't really have to work any harder to use the extra power of the PS4 the way they had to with the PS3.

Second
The RAM buffer does not completely negate the advantage of the GDDR5. Only 32 MB of RAM is being moved via the ESRAM at any one time in the xbone. That means the remainder of the 8 GB DDR3 is operating at the normal speed. In other words, by not using GDDR5, MS has introduced a RAM bottleneck. Developers have to program around this bottleneck, introducing an additional programing step that does not exist on PS4.

In contrast, the PS4 has the full 8GB operating at 176 GB per second vs 68gb for the xbone. The combined RAM bandwidth of xbone DDR3 + ESRAM never approaches the 176 GB of PS4

Bottom line. Programing for PS4 is almost exactly the same as programing for Xbone EXCEPT for the additional steps that need to be taken on XBone. This means that the RAW horsepower advantage of PS4 will be clearly evident in most games and will become more apparent as games become more advanced over the course of this generation.

Both machines are great and both will provide great experiences, but you can't hide the fact that PS4 is more powerful.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:50 PM   #177
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Default Re: Playstation 4

The troll's argument isn't just that the ps4 has better numbers that none of us understand unless we're told by someone else what they mean, but that the gaming experience will be fundamentally different on his lover...errrr...playstation. That's complete and total bullshit. Maybe one out of twenty of us could sit down in front of a 40" plasma, on our couch in our living room and tell you which system is running which game. It's fanboi penis enlargement therapy.

As for the ps4 aging better than the Xbox one in a decade...none of us know the answer to that. On paper, it appears so...but every generation has shown us that developers will find ways to optimize games.

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Old 12-05-2013, 01:56 PM   #178
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Default Re: Playstation 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post
OMG. If feels really weird to be arguing along side Womfalcs but he is correct. I have been an Xbox fan at heart for the last 2 generations and in the last 2 generations I feel that Microsoft put out the better machine. I was almost exclusively 360 although I did own a PS3. Anyone who was around for this argument during the 360/PS3 debates knows that I defended xbox 360 as the better choice, mainly because of the Unified RAM pool and the superior graphics processor. So believe me, I don't say it lightly. The PS4 is the Superior games machine. That is not to say that games are not great on the xbone. I will be getting one pretty soon. It's just that there is no way to argue against facts in this case.

As I pointed out before:

First
Both systems use the SAME AMD Jaguar CPU combined with the SAME GPU as a system on a chip.

The difference is that the PS4 GPU is 50% more powerful than the xbone version of the same GPU. This means that there is a certain degree of scalability or, in other words, Developers don't really have to work any harder to use the extra power of the PS4 the way they had to with the PS3.

Second
The RAM buffer does not completely negate the advantage of the GDDR5. Only 32 MB of RAM is being moved via the ESRAM at any one time in the xbone. That means the remainder of the 8 GB DDR3 is operating at the normal speed. In other words, by not using GDDR5, MS has introduced a RAM bottleneck. Developers have to program around this bottleneck, introducing an additional programing step that does not exist on PS4.

In contrast, the PS4 has the full 8GB operating at 176 GB per second vs 68gb for the xbone. The combined RAM bandwidth of xbone DDR3 + ESRAM never approaches the 176 GB of PS4

Bottom line. Programing for PS4 is almost exactly the same as programing for Xbone EXCEPT for the additional steps that need to be taken on XBone. This means that the RAW horsepower advantage of PS4 will be clearly evident in most games and will become more apparent as games become more advanced over the course of this generation.

Both machines are great and both will provide great experiences, but you can't hide the fact that PS4 is more powerful.
Actually if you will read my second post in this thread, you will see that I stated clearly that the PS4 has more muscle or more powerful hardware. So not sure where you think I'm arguing the opposite.

But as DieHard said above, this conversation is about the gaming experience, and the gaming experience on the PS4 is not vastly superior to the gaming experience on the Xbone. That's what my point is about. But it's obvious people went into defense mode and started spewing out hardware specs at me like I didn't know what each system had instead of actually discussing the point I was trying, and apparently failed, to make.



......or should I start talking about how much faster the Xbone's CPU and GPU clock speeds are higher than PS4's and keep this type of "unrelated to the point conversation" continuing?
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:10 PM   #179
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by bmccall View Post
Actually if you will read my second post in this thread, you will see that I stated clearly that the PS4 has more muscle or more powerful hardware. So not sure where you think I'm arguing the opposite.

But as DieHard said above, this conversation is about the gaming experience, and the gaming experience on the PS4 is not vastly superior to the gaming experience on the Xbone. That's what my point is about. But it's obvious people went into defense mode and started spewing out hardware specs at me like I didn't know what each system had instead of actually discussing the point I was trying, and apparently failed, to make.



......or should I start talking about how much faster the Xbone's CPU and GPU clock speeds are higher than PS4's and keep this type of "unrelated to the point conversation" continuing?
The current unconfirmed rumor is that the PS4 CPU is clocked at 1.8. That is unconfirmed but would bring it ahead of the xbone's 1.75. Otherwise, the PS4 is clocked lower than xbone.

Also, 10% of the xbone gpu is reserved for Kinect.

Having said that, I don't think there will be a fundamental difference in experiences. People should buy what they like and enjoy it. Both systems are going to be really nice. In fact, I would give the xbone the thumbs up in regards to unique experiences. Since Kinect comes in the box, developers are more likely to use it and we should see some really cool kinect implementations this time around.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:13 PM   #180
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Default Re: Playstation 4

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Originally Posted by Antiochus View Post
Having said that, I don't think there will be a fundamental difference in experiences.

that's because you're not an insane, trolling fanboi.
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