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Old 12-05-2013, 12:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
Yes they are. A high school player must be an amature, in every league I have heard of, to play on their schools team.
Well, I suppose the fact that they are still minors could be used as justification, but once someone is considered to be an adult by the state, I just cannot justify rules that prohibit that adult from benefiting from their own likeness or abilities, like every other adult in the country.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: College Athletes

Or they could leave it how it is from the schools but open it up like the Olympic model, you can sign endorsements off your name.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: College Athletes

To the point of this speech, I do not agree. This whole pay the athletes because the school makes a lot is just stupid. These kids sign a contract and know what they agreed to. The University has 100s if not 1000s of athletes getting free educations and not everyone brings in money.

If you just look at football, of the 85 scholarship players, only 3-5 of them are actually big names and bring in money on jersey sales. That means that 80+ players aren't paying for their free education. Now I know you need good players across the board to do well, but on the whole paying players argument they always talk about specific players and their value.

To the risk argument, D3 kids don't get paid and are risking themselves too. Should we just outlaw the lower divisions? Also these kids are given the opportunity to show their skills and make it to the NFL because of these colleges. It is basically like an internship and they are being paid with their free educations.

Lastly, giving the kids an extra $100 a week isn't going to stop the complaining or issues going on. These athletes want to live like superstars, like they see on TV. That is why so many go broke as soon as they are out of the league. Also, I don't notice any of these poor kids having trouble buying the newest Jordan's or getting the XBOX One. Sorry the whole exploited kid BS is old and flawed.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
Well, I suppose the fact that they are still minors could be used as justification, but once someone is considered to be an adult by the state, I just cannot justify rules that prohibit that adult from benefiting from their own likeness or abilities, like every other adult in the country.
Not true. It is just like a lawyer signing an non-compete clause. Their is no law by the State or Country saying they can't do it, it is the firm/school they are at saying they can't do it. It really isn't a hard concept to get. If someone wants to create a minor league and pay football players, then go for it, but as long as the college and the NCAA run it and kids continue to play for it, they can set the compensation rules as they wish. It is just like the 3 years until declaring for the NFL draft, that isn't an NCAA rule that is a NFL rule. The NFL has the right to put requirements, that are reasonable, on those prospective employees.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
Not true. It is just like a lawyer signing an non-compete clause. Their is no law by the State or Country saying they can't do it, it is the firm/school they are at saying they can't do it. It really isn't a hard concept to get. If someone wants to create a minor league and pay football players, then go for it, but as long as the college and the NCAA run it and kids continue to play for it, they can set the compensation rules as they wish. It is just like the 3 years until declaring for the NFL draft, that isn't an NCAA rule that is a NFL rule. The NFL has the right to put requirements, that are reasonable, on those prospective employees.

That lawyer is still getting compensated, are able to bill out their services, and whose employment is protected under federal and state employment laws.

So, are you suggesting we start treating college athletes as their attorney counterparts? I don't think you'd want that, but I'd be ok with them being held to the same laws.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
To the point of this speech, I do not agree. This whole pay the athletes because the school makes a lot is just stupid. These kids sign a contract and know what they agreed to. The University has 100s if not 1000s of athletes getting free educations and not everyone brings in money.

If you just look at football, of the 85 scholarship players, only 3-5 of them are actually big names and bring in money on jersey sales. That means that 80+ players aren't paying for their free education. Now I know you need good players across the board to do well, but on the whole paying players argument they always talk about specific players and their value.

To the risk argument, D3 kids don't get paid and are risking themselves too. Should we just outlaw the lower divisions? Also these kids are given the opportunity to show their skills and make it to the NFL because of these colleges. It is basically like an internship and they are being paid with their free educations.

Lastly, giving the kids an extra $100 a week isn't going to stop the complaining or issues going on. These athletes want to live like superstars, like they see on TV. That is why so many go broke as soon as they are out of the league. Also, I don't notice any of these poor kids having trouble buying the newest Jordan's or getting the XBOX One. Sorry the whole exploited kid BS is old and flawed.
You just sound bitter to this subject.. you can hop off the thread if you'd like.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by Lalli25 View Post
Not true. It is just like a lawyer signing an non-compete clause. Their is no law by the State or Country saying they can't do it, it is the firm/school they are at saying they can't do it. It really isn't a hard concept to get. If someone wants to create a minor league and pay football players, then go for it, but as long as the college and the NCAA run it and kids continue to play for it, they can set the compensation rules as they wish. It is just like the 3 years until declaring for the NFL draft, that isn't an NCAA rule that is a NFL rule. The NFL has the right to put requirements, that are reasonable, on those prospective employees.
at this point in time, the NCAA bascially maintains a monopoly over amateur athletes in the USA. The non-compete clause is a bad analogy due to limitations that are placed on them by state statutes.

I agree about someone starting a pay league for these players...it would be interesting to see if it could work. Almost like a developmental league.

However, the NCAA is a joke and their blatant arbitrary enforcement of their own rules makes them ill-equipped to safeguard to claimed sanctity of college athletes. I don't care if you pay athletes or not...but I can certainly see why they want their piece of the pie.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: College Athletes

I'm just hoping the game lasts. Like everything else, the more popular it gets the more it becomes a target for ridicule and lawsuits. Collisions make the sport great and that is quickly going away. Jerseys and video games will be a moot point. Although I think the video game has already met its death
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: College Athletes

Paying college athletes would create too much of a mess.

Jersey sales is a flawed argument because there's no name on the back. Sure, we all know #2 on the Aggies is Johnny Manziel or that #7 on the Gamecocks is mainly Clowney, but there's more than one #7 on a bunch of teams and there's been a ton of popular players who have worn those jerseys over time. Unless your name is on the back, you truthfully have no right to profit from it.

Honestly, I can think of a worse situation than obtaining a free education, free meals, free books, and free athletic gear in exchange for playing football or basketball every week. As someone who will be paying student loans for a long time, I don't feel any remorse.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by roosterdude21 View Post
I'm just hoping the game lasts. Like everything else, the more popular it gets the more it becomes a target for ridicule and lawsuits. Collisions make the sport great and that is quickly going away. Jerseys and video games will be a moot point. Although I think the video game has already met its death
I'm not sure its fair to say that lawsuits will end the game. I think it has more to do with the information that is becoming more readily available. Lawsuits are a side effect of that information, but will only be a contributing factor, not THE factor.

Quote:
The nation's largest youth football program, Pop Warner, saw participation drop 9.5 percent between 2010-12, a sign that the concussion crisis that began in the NFL is having a dramatic impact at the lowest rungs of the sport.

According to data provided to "Outside the Lines," Pop Warner lost 23,612 players, thought to be the largest two-year decline since the organization began keeping statistics decades ago. Consistent annual growth led to a record 248,899 players participating in Pop Warner in 2010; that figure fell to 225,287 by the 2012 season.

Pop Warner officials said they believe several factors played a role in the decline, including the trend of youngsters focusing on one sport. But the organization's chief medical officer, Dr. Julian Bailes, cited concerns about head injuries as "the No. 1 cause."

"Unless we deal with these truths, we're not going to get past the dropping popularity of the sport and people dropping out of the sport," said Bailes, a former Pittsburgh Steelers neurosurgeon whose 10-year-old son, Clint, plays Pop Warner outside Chicago. "We need to get it right."

The statistics, which have not been previously disclosed, are consistent with declining participation rates reported in youth football across the country. USA Football, a national governing body partially funded by the NFL, said participation among players ages 6 to 14 fell from 3 million to 2.8 million in 2011, a 6.7 percent decline.

Pop Warner, founded in 1929, is the largest youth football organization in the world; the NFL players union estimates that 60 to 70 percent of all NFL players started in the program. After years of steady growth, the organization saw participation drop 5.7 percent for the 2011 season, according to the internal Pop Warner data provided to "Outside the Lines." Last year, the figures fell 4 percent. Officials said they do not have statistics for the 2013 season but expect that participation rates will be flat.

The decline in participation is not reflected on Pop Warner's website, which boasts that "participation has steadily increased to today's record numbers," adding that "over 250,000 youths participated in Pop Warner-sanctioned football programs in 2010, and those numbers are continuing to grow."

Representatives from Pop Warner and USA Football suggested the reasons for the drop in participation were unclear and could be attributed to several factors. Among those cited were the nation's economy and the ongoing trend of youth specializing in a single sport. Officials pointed to a survey showing declines in participation in other team sports, including baseball and basketball, although dips among core participants were not as severe.

The downward trends in youth football participation coincide with a series of ominous reports about football and brain damage in the NFL. In 2005, the first of dozens of confirmed cases of former NFL players with neurodegenerative disease was reported. In 2009, Congress held hearings on the NFL's long-standing efforts to conceal the connection between concussions and mental illness. In 2010, a league spokesman acknowledged for the first time a connection between concussions and "long-term problems."

In early 2011, former Chicago Bears defensive back Dave Duerson committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest to preserve his brain for study. He was later diagnosed with Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, or CTE, a brain disease that has been linked to football.

Tony Strickland, an associate clinical professor of neurology at UCLA's Geffen School of Medicine who sits on the Pop Warner's Medical Advisory Committee, said he believes participation dropped "in part because of the description of individual cases and the information out there about the incidence of CTE. If I'm a parent, anybody hearing that information, in the absence of other science, would be foolish not to be cautious."

But Strickland, who is CEO of the Sports Concussion Institute, said concerns about football and head injuries have outstripped the pace of scientific evidence, creating unwarranted hysteria about the risks of playing football.

"I have felt that the pendulum swung way ahead of the science and what we know," Strickland said.

In 2012, Pop Warner significantly cut back on the amount of tackling permitted during practice. This year, the organization announced a partnership with the NFL to endorse "Heads Up" football, a program launched by USA Football and designed to teach proper tackling techniques to minimize head contact.

In the coming months, Pop Warner's Medical Advisory Committee is expected to take up more rule changes that some officials believe could foreshadow where football is headed, as parents and players continue to reassess the risks.

One proposal under consideration would take all linemen out of the three-point stance. Bailes, its chief proponent, said requiring players to start upright would cut down on head-to-head collisions that can lead to brain injuries.

Bailes co-authored a study in the November issue of the Journal of Neurosurgery showing how repeated "subconcussive impacts" can lead to brain damage. One way to minimize those impacts in football, the study concluded, might be to have linemen start in a "squatting position, to remove them from the inexorable, ubiquitous, gratuitous head contact on every play."

"I really think we need to limit the number of head impacts," said Bailes, who also leads the department of neurosurgery at NorthShore Neurological Institute in Evanston, Ill. "I think that's where the sport needs to go."

Jon Butler, Pop Warner's executive director, said the move to take linemen out of the three-point stance is "in the very early stages. The concern with a rule that sweeping is that politically it's going to change the game to the point where people get turned off. My personal feeling is that that is where football is ultimately going to go. The question is how we get there."

Strickland said there needs to be more study to determine if such a measure would have the desired effect. "What is intuitively a good idea may not necessarily be so," he said. "We want to make sure any policies that we implement we can evaluate and track their efficacy."

At the same time, youth football officials emphasized that they believe football is safe relative to other sports.

"It's an emotional decision for a parent, but statistically we can prove that football is as safe if not safer than other sports," said Butler. "If you take kids' activities, including bicycle-riding and skateboarding, the rate of concussion is tremendously higher in those activities."

Dr. Robert Cantu, a neurosurgeon and concussion expert at Boston University's Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy, has advocated for banning tackle football for children younger than 14 because "the young brain is much more susceptible to the shock associated with concussion."

"What I've stated from the beginning is that I desperately want kids to play sports; I want sports participation to go up," said Cantu. "I just want the most dangerous sports for head trauma to be played in a way that's safe."

Cantu, who serves as a senior advisor to the NFL on concussions, said he hoped that younger children would play flag football before they reach high school.

Bailes, though, emphasized he believes the research shows the youngest players are not as likely to suffer concussions as those playing at the high school level and above. He said the key is minimizing exposure through rule changes at the youth level.

"We need to help try to morph the game where it needs to go," said Bailes. "Numbers are down, but it's a wakeup call. None of us are saying football should end. I'm saying the opposite -- football should continue."
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...-causal-factor


I love football. I played it in high school, and am completely ok with it being a 'religion' here in the South. I hope it never goes away.

With that being said- if I had a son, I'm not sure I'd allow him to play football. As more and more information comes out from the medical community, especially studies that have shown a person need not get a concussion to end up with long term brain damage from repeated blows to the head, that will continue to make me more hesitant to knowingly allow my child participate in that type of organized activity.

As participation levels drop (and they will, so long as more information continues to come out) then you'll see the nation's best athletes end up in other sports. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen, unless there are major changes to the sport (rules and/or technological advances that reduce the number of head injuries / brain damage)
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:51 PM   #31
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by TwoNotch Dreams View Post
Paying college athletes would create too much of a mess.

Jersey sales is a flawed argument because there's no name on the back. Sure, we all know #2 on the Aggies is Johnny Manziel or that #7 on the Gamecocks is mainly Clowney, but there's more than one #7 on a bunch of teams and there's been a ton of popular players who have worn those jerseys over time. Unless your name is on the back, you truthfully have no right to profit from it.

Honestly, I can think of a worse situation than obtaining a free education, free meals, free books, and free athletic gear in exchange for playing football or basketball every week. As someone who will be paying student loans for a long time, I don't feel any remorse.
I disagree. Coming from myself who has to pay 31,000 each year for my education and realize how much that is I still think they deserve more. I am not trying to downgrade the scholarships they get but they need something because you and I have the extra time to have a part time job in college and buy some things we want, they don't
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
That lawyer is still getting compensated, are able to bill out their services, and whose employment is protected under federal and state employment laws.

So, are you suggesting we start treating college athletes as their attorney counterparts? I don't think you'd want that, but I'd be ok with them being held to the same laws.
College athletes are compensated through scholarships and are allowed to transfer, same as a lawyer. They already get the same treatment. Original premise is wrong.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: College Athletes

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You just sound bitter to this subject.. you can hop off the thread if you'd like.
Haha, so you ask for counter views but when I explain why your argument is flawed you just ignore it.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: College Athletes

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College athletes are compensated through scholarships and are allowed to transfer, same as a lawyer. They already get the same treatment. Original premise is wrong.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm not sure why you're so against this- it sounds like you're bitter, worried that 'they' might get something that you didnt.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: College Athletes

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You just sound bitter to this subject.. you can hop off the thread if you'd like.
He didn't sound bitter until the last paragraph (which I agree with.) The first part had very valid point.

I don't agree with paying athletes. If you do a little more research you will learn they already do get stipends for weekend trips, etc. Weekend trips where all of their expenditures are paid for, so the money goes straight into their pockets.

And it's false that players are not allowed to have a job. Many of them do, they just choose to only work in the off season.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:14 PM   #36
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by ShutTheSuccop View Post
at this point in time, the NCAA bascially maintains a monopoly over amateur athletes in the USA. The non-compete clause is a bad analogy due to limitations that are placed on them by state statutes.

I agree about someone starting a pay league for these players...it would be interesting to see if it could work. Almost like a developmental league.

However, the NCAA is a joke and their blatant arbitrary enforcement of their own rules makes them ill-equipped to safeguard to claimed sanctity of college athletes. I don't care if you pay athletes or not...but I can certainly see why they want their piece of the pie.
This is a different argument than the paying players. I agree the NCAA sucks and is far from an ideal organization. That does not mean that playing players is a good solution.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:15 PM   #37
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by ktguen View Post
He didn't sound bitter until the last paragraph (which I agree with.) The first part had very valid point.

I don't agree with paying athletes at all. If you do a little more research you will learn they already do get stipends for weekend trips, etc. Weekend trips where all of their expenditures are paid for, so the money goes straight into their pockets.
Hey- when was the last time those stipends were adjusted?
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: College Athletes

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I disagree. Coming from myself who has to pay 31,000 each year for my education and realize how much that is I still think they deserve more. I am not trying to downgrade the scholarships they get but they need something because you and I have the extra time to have a part time job in college and buy some things we want, they don't
I will switch my part time job during college and all my student loan debt for their part time job that means zero debt.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: College Athletes

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I will switch my part time job during college and all my student loan debt for their part time job that means zero debt.
And here we have the motivation for your position.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: College Athletes

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Originally Posted by 3MTA3 View Post
We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm not sure why you're so against this- it sounds like you're bitter, worried that 'they' might get something that you didnt.
Not bitter at all. I just don't fall for the whole victimization argument. People act like these athletes are treated like slaves and had no choice in the matter.
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