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Old 12-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by usc90grad View Post
And going up the middle works so well for us.
Thank you!

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Old 12-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
For the most part, I love our running game, but we seem to completely avoid any concept of a true sweep and only occasionally are using the jet sweep which is so fashionable.

We rarely pull off a reverse successfully, even when we can use Damiere. True sweeps? It seems our convoy of blockers takes too long to get there.

Against Clemson, we had to use Connor and Pharoh to go wide, yet Mike Davis and Shon Carson are plenty fast, and last time I checked, Damiere is in the top five speed burners in the nation.

So...

When another team jams us, why don't we utilize more options to take it wide and spread the defense out?

Seriously, my concern is that contrary to popular belief, we don't block along the edges as well as some other teams. I also am not confident in our downfield blocking.

I just felt that for more than two quarters against Clemson we were banging our head against a wall, running Mike into the backs of our linemen.

I'll hang up and listen...
I'm not sure our OL are very fast (as a group) and our WR are small and not good blockers.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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I'm not sure our OL are very fast (as a group) and our WR are small and not good blockers.
Ding! Ding! Ding!

Folks, we have a winner!

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Old 12-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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I want the Auburn running game for Christmas.
Best blocking team by far this year.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Best blocking team by far this year.
Of course, by "best blocking team" you mean best running block team. (who knows how well they pass block?) They ought to be good: they get a lot of practice. 676 rushing attempts on the season.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Of course, by "best blocking team" you mean best running block team. (who knows how well they pass block?) They ought to be good: they get a lot of practice. 676 rushing attempts on the season.
yes.....ask Georgia about Auburn's passing game.

Missouri had a good defense, but they gave up over 500 rushing yards.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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I just want to piggy back a question of mine. Why don't we do hurry-up offense? Furthermore, why do we do the exact opposite of hurry-up and wait until the very last second to snap the ball?
We do hurry up some times. But we like to keep the other team's offense off the field and limit their possessions and keep our defense fresh. That is how the big boys win.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Best blocking team by far this year.
Right, and that includes downfield blocking and finishing off a block and not quitting on it before you take your man to the ground!

That's the way Vince Lombardi taught it, and that's the way it should be done.

That same approach to blocking made the Miami Dolphins the only perfect team in NFL history.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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yes.....ask Georgia about Auburn's passing game.

Missouri had a good defense, but they gave up over 500 rushing yards.
I'm not being critical. I think they're unbelievable. Who cares if they can pass block or not when they run block well enough to put up 545 rushing yards against a good defense (Mizzou) and nearly 300 against a great defense (Bama)?

The battle between Auburn's O line and FSU's D line will be epic.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #30
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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The battle between Auburn's O line and FSU's D line will be epic.
This!
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:35 PM   #31
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
For the most part, I love our running game, but we seem to completely avoid any concept of a true sweep and only occasionally are using the jet sweep which is so fashionable.
True sweeps are difficult to run out of the gun. Jet sweeps are good, but you either have to have a counter play off of it, like a play action pass, in order to keep the defense from cheating to stop it, and/or you have to run it as an option play, such as the inverted veer ("The Cam Newton play"). The problem with that is it requires practice reps. Practice reps spent on the counters off of Jet and/or the Jet option play take reps away from other stuff in the offense. We clearly have execution problems as it is...We don't need to make it any worse...

Quote:
We rarely pull off a reverse successfully, even when we can use Damiere. True sweeps? It seems our convoy of blockers takes too long to get there.
I would have to watch our reverse film to know for sure, but if I had to guess, it's probably poor execution and/or bad play calling (i.e. not calling the play at an optimal time). The convoy of blockers issue is probably due to not getting enough practice reps with the plays.

Quote:
Against Clemson, we had to use Connor and Pharoh to go wide, yet Mike Davis and Shon Carson are plenty fast, and last time I checked, Damiere is in the top five speed burners in the nation.
Scheme problems. Watch what Oregon did under Chip Kelly. They came out and pounded inside zone at the opponent, then when the opponent adjusted to stop inside zone, Oregon would hit the opponent with outside zone, which is a similar play, but as the name suggests, attacks the perimeter rather than the interior.

Quote:
So...

When another team jams us, why don't we utilize more options to take it wide and spread the defense out?
Because Spurrier is a knucklehead sometimes.

Quote:
Seriously, my concern is that contrary to popular belief, we don't block along the edges as well as some other teams. I also am not confident in our downfield blocking.
I'm in the same boat as you.

Quote:
I just felt that for more than two quarters against Clemson we were banging our head against a wall, running Mike into the backs of our linemen.

I'll hang up and listen...
Football will always be about blocking and tackling before anything else. Clearly, SC continues to be mediocre at both, with tackling being atrocious this year.

What you allow, you encourage.

Spurrier has always been a scheme over execution guy.

Look at what happened when Spurrier's Gators played the Huskers in the 1995 national championship game...They got demolished. The Huskers at that time were well-known for being excellent at execution.

Be thankful for the good times we have had under Spurrier; I constantly have to remind myself to. But do realize we will always be plagued by the same garbage as long as he is the coach here, for better or worse.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Carolina-Beez View Post
I'm not being critical. I think they're unbelievable. Who cares if they can pass block or not when they run block well enough to put up 545 rushing yards against a good defense (Mizzou) and nearly 300 against a great defense (Bama)?

The battle between Auburn's O line and FSU's D line will be epic.
Your last sentence will determine the champ. There is no question FSU is going to light up Auburn's defense. Auburn is going to score, but FSU has some great athletes on defense, so I doubt Auburn can score more than 30....because I see FSU scoring at least 45.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

Nice summation of the SEC Championship game in three sentences.

Quote:
Malzahn crossed up the Missouri defense play after play as Auburn scored on four of its seven possessions in the first half to take a 28-27 lead into intermission. When Missouri went to a three-man front, Auburn ran plays outside. When Missouri went to a four-man front, with its ends set at the edge to prevent runners from getting outside, Malzahn called plays to go inside.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/sp...ship.html?_r=0
To bring back to Carolina: without Shaw next season, how are we going to get to the outside when defenses clog the middle to stop Davis and Wilds?
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Carolina-Beez View Post
Nice summation of the SEC Championship game in three sentences.



To bring back to Carolina: without Shaw next season, how are we going to get to the outside when defenses clog the middle to stop Davis and Wilds?
In regards to the quote about the Auburn running game, it's amazing how simple things can get for coaches within a game.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:30 PM   #35
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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it's amazing how simple things can get for coaches within a game.
Don't tell that to Spurrier or Chad Morris. They like to make life way more difficult and complicated than it needs to be.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

We were a zone read team with Shaw and that's what we ran. We never did it great but that was our central focus. We will see how next year team fleshes out but I'm willing to bet it will look a bit different.

As far as waiting for play clock, I always felt like Spurrier is reactionary. He will exploit matchups and seek them out, which sometimes involves late plays called in, instead of blindly running the offensive plays.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:46 PM   #37
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

For the life of me I cannot understand what games y'all are watching. We run the sweep out f the gun all the tie. We pull two guards or the center depending on which ol is uncovered. Also shaw runs the qb sweep a Good bit. The long td called back for a chop block or clip, can't recall, against mizzou last year was a sweep. One of their favorite plays with lattimore was the shotgun sweep play. We tried to run the toss sweep against coastal or Clemson and it lost a yard didn't see it anymore, because it doesn't fit our system anymore.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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As far as waiting for play clock, I always felt like Spurrier is reactionary. He will exploit matchups and seek them out, which sometimes involves late plays called in, instead of blindly running the offensive plays.
No huddle coaches do the same deal, but the difference is that by lining up immediately after the previous play, the defense is forced to line up, which tips their hand and allows the offensive coordinator to scan the defense and call the appropriate play, which then means the players get the play well before the play clock is about to run out.

Note: The no huddle tactic can be used with any tempo of offense. Slowdown, normal, hurry-up, "NASCAR", etc.

Don't get no huddle and hurry up tempo confused.

They are not the same.

No huddle is a tactic.

Hurry up is a tempo.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:24 PM   #39
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

The thing I don't understand about our offense is the almost complete lack of misdirection. About the closest we come to it is playaction passing, but the fakes aren't ever real convincing.

There have been times when SOS has added misdirection to the scheme for a specific opponent, but there's nothing in the base offense at all.

Play your recording of the clemson game, and pause the tape as soon as Conor snaps the ball on any running play. The linebackers are crashing HARD long before Conor hands the ball off. That caller Steve got so happy about wasn't wrong.

Y'all see that beautiful play by Auburn the other night where the receiver came in motion as if on a fly sweep, the QB gave a convincing fake to the TB, the receiver switched directions and headed back out for a screen pass? That was nice. Get them going in the wrong direction, Steve!
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:59 PM   #40
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

I think C2 led the discussion a few years back about how bi-polar our offense can be. We have elements of the air raid/Oklahoma (Jr) with the spread offense (G.A) and zone blocking (Elliot) all sprinkled in with some of the elements that SOS loved to run at FL. And so the blocking/pulling guards/tackles dont always mesh with the vertical passing game or a mobile QB or pocket as we see on the field. But I think they can get ironed out with an offensive coordinator that was raised in and practicing the kinds of offenses they run today. Not saying Jr and G.A. dont have a say but they may be influenced more from what theyve experienced with SOS.

In the end I think it's that bi-polar-ness that is the reason our run game is not perfect. I just dont get the sense that our offense practices the same option-read play a million times with discipline that Auburn, Oregon Okla state run. They prob do the same thing over and over again since their offenses are so basic in concepts which was the same reason SOS's FL offense was so successful because they WR patterns were basic reads.

And as to Auburn. I think they get figured out next year because they and Missouri snuck up on everyone this year. When Mullen went to MS State, they were semi-successful but then got figured out after a year. Mizzou brought in a new O-coordinator and that's the reason for their surprise success. It would be the same as if GA Tech moved over to the SEC next year, they would run all over teams for the first year until they adjust.

Danny kannell said it best today that the vegas line for FL State/AU would be closer if they played this weekend because you essentially have 2 days of practice to get ready for Auburn and you can't watch tape and replicate the offense in such a short amount of time. But with a month, FL state figures it out. If you look at LSU, Georgia, texas a&M, and Alabama (yeah they have superior players), they werent too worried about the running attack.

If i had one offense I could steal, it would be Oklahoma State.
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