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Old 12-09-2013, 11:31 PM   #41
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Carolina-Beez View Post
Nice summation of the SEC Championship game in three sentences.



To bring back to Carolina: without Shaw next season, how are we going to get to the outside when defenses clog the middle to stop Davis and Wilds?
Same way Auburn did it.....much improved blocking and a commitment to it.....
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Justhatguy View Post
I think C2 led the discussion a few years back about how bi-polar our offense can be. We have elements of the air raid/Oklahoma (Jr) with the spread offense (G.A) and zone blocking (Elliot) all sprinkled in with some of the elements that SOS loved to run at FL. And so the blocking/pulling guards/tackles dont always mesh with the vertical passing game or a mobile QB or pocket as we see on the field. But I think they can get ironed out with an offensive coordinator that was raised in and practicing the kinds of offenses they run today. Not saying Jr and G.A. dont have a say but they may be influenced more from what theyve experienced with SOS.

In the end I think it's that bi-polar-ness that is the reason our run game is not perfect. I just dont get the sense that our offense practices the same option-read play a million times with discipline that Auburn, Oregon Okla state run. They prob do the same thing over and over again since their offenses are so basic in concepts which was the same reason SOS's FL offense was so successful because they WR patterns were basic reads.

And as to Auburn. I think they get figured out next year because they and Missouri snuck up on everyone this year. When Mullen went to MS State, they were semi-successful but then got figured out after a year. Mizzou brought in a new O-coordinator and that's the reason for their surprise success. It would be the same as if GA Tech moved over to the SEC next year, they would run all over teams for the first year until they adjust.

Danny kannell said it best today that the vegas line for FL State/AU would be closer if they played this weekend because you essentially have 2 days of practice to get ready for Auburn and you can't watch tape and replicate the offense in such a short amount of time. But with a month, FL state figures it out. If you look at LSU, Georgia, texas a&M, and Alabama (yeah they have superior players), they werent too worried about the running attack.

If i had one offense I could steal, it would be Oklahoma State.
Figuring it out is one thing, stopping it is another. One thing they can't practice against is the tempo. Auburn can just go, go, go. FSU's scout team can't match it, when the tempo is fast, you get tired and can't react as well.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:54 PM   #43
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

True, but they'll practice it. Kannell mentioned that the scout team will run it at tempo without the ball to focus on assignment football. Who knows what's going to happen. I just think that those teams I mentioned, if they had an offseason to study how the offense is run (essentially 3 plays with three options and a pass), the outcome would be different. And essentially they almost did figure it out with how close the scores were.
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:17 AM   #44
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
For the most part, I love our running game, but we seem to completely avoid any concept of a true sweep and only occasionally are using the jet sweep which is so fashionable.

We rarely pull off a reverse successfully, even when we can use Damiere. True sweeps? It seems our convoy of blockers takes too long to get there.

Against Clemson, we had to use Connor and Pharoh to go wide, yet Mike Davis and Shon Carson are plenty fast, and last time I checked, Damiere is in the top five speed burners in the nation.

So...

When another team jams us, why don't we utilize more options to take it wide and spread the defense out?

Seriously, my concern is that contrary to popular belief, we don't block along the edges as well as some other teams. I also am not confident in our downfield blocking.

I just felt that for more than two quarters against Clemson we were banging our head against a wall, running Mike into the backs of our linemen.

I'll hang up and listen...
Just making a suggestion. The HBC used Mike Davis up the middle to keep Clemson with 8 in the box. Then Conner would break off tackle. I think it was part of the game plan. If you watch the game again, the receivers go deep and clear out to the side away from where Conner would run. It looked planned.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:52 AM   #45
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

OL that's why. Big, Strong but very slow. Very slow and heavy footed. Better suited for straight ahead blocking and not much else.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:14 AM   #46
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by b381l View Post
I'm not sure our OL are very fast (as a group) and our WR are small and not good blockers.
This is it. It's the same reason screen passes weren't effective this year. The oline can't get outside and the WR get knocked over when the wind blows too hard.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:41 AM   #47
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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I want the Auburn running game for Christmas.

I don't. I hate that kind of football. Playing hide the ball all day.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:15 AM   #48
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
I don't. I hate that kind of football. Playing hide the ball all day.
Gus Malzahn has a question for you:



How do you like them apples?



Personally, I want an SEC Championship. As long as it's within the rules, I don't care how it gets done.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:58 AM   #49
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Dizzy01 View Post
This is it. It's the same reason screen passes weren't effective this year. The oline can't get outside and the WR get knocked over when the wind blows too hard.
WHAT????
Our screen game is designed as a "key" screen. It isn't designed for our OL to get out in space and make blocks! It's based off of defensive position, pre-snap. It's a sight adjustment if you will. The play is a combo play. The inside zone and a key screen away from the running back's alignment. If the defender aligns in a certain position (determined by coaching staff) versus one of our wideouts, the quarterback will simply throw it out there to him. It's two plays built into one call. We RARELY call a designed Wideout screen. We do however call running back screens, and they have been VERY effective. I really seem to watch different ball games than you guys do. We can't have it both ways. For years people on here have screamed about bigger stronger OL who can push other DL off the ball. Well, guess what, you can't have those HUGE guys get out in space a ton and block DB's who can run circles around them. It only works once in a while.
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:15 PM   #50
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by USCBASEBALL1 View Post
Where has the toss sweep gone in College Football???
See the Georgia v. Carolina game in Athens this year ... The Dawgs ran the sweep with Gurley for huge gains against our D on consecutive plays.

Also, did Carolina not run the sweep from the wildcat with Cooper against Clemtech on a few occasions this year?
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:45 PM   #51
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
Tre Mason is a beast, but Clemson (of all people) has found something special in McDowell.

Thank God Chad Morris' ego wouldn't let him commit to the ground game against us!

And Dabo? Well, bless his heart, he just decided to let Chad run the show (like he always does).

McDowell was gashing us and their line was creating massive lanes, but Chad and Dabo were afraid Dropkins would get his feelings hurt if they didn't throw all the time.
unpack what you mean by saying clemson has found something special in rod mcdowell. you do realize that he is a senior and just wasn't good enough to get time from ellington for all these years right?
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #52
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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unpack what you mean by saying clemson has found something special in rod mcdowell. you do realize that he is a senior and just wasn't good enough to get time from ellington for all these years right?
How many players would get time away from Ellington? That kid was special.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:01 PM   #53
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Tell that to mizzou and auburn
Exactly. Had Mizzou not abandoned that little outside run play (where clowney missed the tackle the first time, then Mizzou got the TD to go up 24-17) then they might have still won the game. They never once ran it in overtime. They sealed the edge, got 1 guy on a linebacker, and pulled the corner away and Josey practically walked in the 2nd time.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:27 PM   #54
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by poppabeary3 View Post
+1...and dont tell me its because their OL is so good. Sure, they're good, but they're young and inexperienced. The difference is the play calling and coaching. We're so damn stubborn with the zone read and don't get creative other than the Wildcat (which I wouldnt consider creative anymore). Why don't we work in more option or pitches? Why don't we mix in a power I set every no and then? Why don't we use the pistol more often? A power I out of the shotgun with 2 backs and 2 TEs would give us an unbelieveable amount of options. Instead, we run a mostly vanilla offense.

EDIT...I'm happy with the season but I think we're not reaching our potential and I'm worried our team and most of all, the coaches, will become complacent with our offensive production. And to be fair, I just ****ing hate the zone read as a primary offensive scheme.
Please dont tell me you just sighted Clemsons running game and then call in to question our coaches play calling and offense? Good God amighty.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #55
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by USCNowAndForever View Post
True sweeps are difficult to run out of the gun. Jet sweeps are good, but you either have to have a counter play off of it, like a play action pass, in order to keep the defense from cheating to stop it, and/or you have to run it as an option play, such as the inverted veer ("The Cam Newton play"). The problem with that is it requires practice reps. Practice reps spent on the counters off of Jet and/or the Jet option play take reps away from other stuff in the offense. We clearly have execution problems as it is...We don't need to make it any worse...

I would have to watch our reverse film to know for sure, but if I had to guess, it's probably poor execution and/or bad play calling (i.e. not calling the play at an optimal time). The convoy of blockers issue is probably due to not getting enough practice reps with the plays.

Scheme problems. Watch what Oregon did under Chip Kelly. They came out and pounded inside zone at the opponent, then when the opponent adjusted to stop inside zone, Oregon would hit the opponent with outside zone, which is a similar play, but as the name suggests, attacks the perimeter rather than the interior.

Because Spurrier is a knucklehead sometimes.

I'm in the same boat as you.



Football will always be about blocking and tackling before anything else. Clearly, SC continues to be mediocre at both, with tackling being atrocious this year.

What you allow, you encourage.

Spurrier has always been a scheme over execution guy.

Look at what happened when Spurrier's Gators played the Huskers in the 1995 national championship game...They got demolished. The Huskers at that time were well-known for being excellent at execution.

Be thankful for the good times we have had under Spurrier; I constantly have to remind myself to. But do realize we will always be plagued by the same garbage as long as he is the coach here, for better or worse.
"But do realize we will always be plagued by the same garbage as long as he is the coach here, for better or worse."

Really? Comic relief at its best right here^^
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:37 PM   #56
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Garnet Gamecock View Post
How many players would get time away from Ellington? That kid was special.
they love those small shifty backs and seem to have a limitless supply of them. i think ellington and mcdowell were pretty good but mcdowell is long gone now =)
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Old 12-10-2013, 05:06 PM   #57
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
I don't. I hate that kind of football. Playing hide the ball all day.
How can you hate that? Thats football back to its roots. Do you like what the NFL has become? Where any no name QB can throw 400 yards in a game
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:44 PM   #58
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by ra742002 View Post
WHAT????
Our screen game is designed as a "key" screen. It isn't designed for our OL to get out in space and make blocks! It's based off of defensive position, pre-snap. It's a sight adjustment if you will. The play is a combo play. The inside zone and a key screen away from the running back's alignment. If the defender aligns in a certain position (determined by coaching staff) versus one of our wideouts, the quarterback will simply throw it out there to him. It's two plays built into one call. We RARELY call a designed Wideout screen. We do however call running back screens, and they have been VERY effective. I really seem to watch different ball games than you guys do. We can't have it both ways. For years people on here have screamed about bigger stronger OL who can push other DL off the ball. Well, guess what, you can't have those HUGE guys get out in space a ton and block DB's who can run circles around them. It only works once in a while.
They run quick screens to the WR all the time. On that play you want the tackle to try and cut off the LB and hope the other receiver can make a block.

As for the size of the line I've never been one obsessed with how big the guys are. Big and slow isn't a good combination for the zone run scheme.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:25 PM   #59
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Because our running game scheme is bad.

That can't be true because Elliott is the run game coordinator. And he's a god.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:28 PM   #60
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Default Re: Running Game -- Why Can't We Go Wide?

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Originally Posted by Carolina-Beez View Post
Gus Malzahn has a question for you:



How do you like them apples?



Personally, I want an SEC Championship. As long as it's within the rules, I don't care how it gets done.

It's Auburn, so whether or not its within the rules or not still to be determined.
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