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Old 12-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

I'm with u op.

There is a bias that comes with rankings and its blatently unfair.

To fix it several things must happen:

1) no pre-season rankings. It is the dumbest most inaccurate thing in college football. Think about it....

The first rankings should come out week 8

2) no coaches or media poll. Sorry but how the hell do coaches get a vote? Is it bc they watch film from all the teams?...umm no

And the media clearly has no bias? Most of those clowns probably didn't play football, much less understand it. And u think they watch every game ? Give me a break

3) there should be no human poll but if there is then a committee should be formed whose only job is to watch every game and make fair assessments of each team. Maybe one rep from each bcs conference.

Polls and media perception had too much pull on who wins what and who is seen as good or lucky, etc... Just look at us for example. How many teams have as many wins as us the past 3 yrs?? Not many but we get shat on at every oppurtunity and get really no respect except from Vegas. In fact, Vegas should do the rankings. They pay bills on that stuff
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Originally Posted by ipull4usc View Post
... But from now on I'll run any posts by you to make sure they're appropriate for this site. God knows we don't need irrelevant posts clogging up the internet, can't have people discussing irrelevant college football issues on a college football message board. This college football discussion board is simply too important for posts you don't deem relevant or important enough.

I agree with you 100%.
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Originally Posted by ipull4usc View Post
Is 11-1 Big 12 champ Baylor better than 11-1 no champ Alabama?
Only when you give a listen to Twisted Sis while reading 'Rules for Rads' will you understand what passes for today's logic. Til then, you'll have better luck arguing with a fence post.

Alinsky's logic is nothing more than a pretzel to be shaped, twisted & turned to butress one's perception - truth be damned - because ends now justify means & perception becomes reality.

If that's where we're headed, I guess time truly has passed me by.
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:49 PM   #24
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Stanford won the Pac 12. We did not win the SEC.
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Originally Posted by ShutTheSuccop View Post
do not bring logic into a thread
Point that is missing. Stanford back doored into Pac-12 Title game just as USC would have done with a Mizzou loss.

Stanford lost to So Cal on Nov.16, that put them a loss behind Oregon. If Oregon doesn't gack against Arizona on Nov. 24th, Oregon plays for the Pac-12 Title. Stanford would be in the same boat as USC.

The OP argument has merit.
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

no problem with the thread simply from a comparison on who deserves to be ranked higher based on resume. like you said its a toss up.
week 15 ap and coaches polls
ap stanford +1
coaches south carolina +66

week 16
ap stanford +118
coaches stanford +80

did that one win over a team that stanford already beat suddenly change the minds of that many voters? i dont agree with the concept that what you were ranked the previous week should have any bearing on where you are ranked the following week, but i dont think the voters are reevaluating resumes every week like they should. what also ends up happening is ohio state and oklahoma state lose, with baylor and stanford getting a lion's share of those lost votes due to various reasons.

at the same time i will say that if it was for selection of a 4 team playoff or 8 team playoff they would deserve the spot over us because of the conference champ thing like everybody else has said. now if we both were to get into a 8 team playoff the higher seed should be a tossup.
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

As a third party I can relate my (mostly) un-biased view. To me there are two key things;
Oregon 59-14 over UT, Stanford 26-20 over Oregon, and UT 23-21 over USC (not to mention Auburn 31-24 over WSU vs Stanford 55-17 over WSU). The other one is FSU's demolishing of Clemson really diminished USC's win over them. I think most observers from afar think Clemson is nothing that special while Oregon is viewed as one of the elite teams despite their two losses. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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OP, you made great points. Ignore the peanut gallery.
Amen!
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:01 PM   #28
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

whats the point? If you aren't #1 or #2 in the last year of BCS it doesn't matter.

There is no difference between #9 and wherever Stanford ended up.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

Some people can just whine about anything.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Originally Posted by GamecockinILL View Post
I hate these kinds of responses....as if no one on this board is aware of that fact. Almost anytime someone makes a thread of this nature, there are others who have these kinds of responses that make discussion seem like a fool's errand.

As for this thread, the poster didn't contend that they didn't win a conference. The contention is that our records are virtually indistinguishable....PERIOD. So, why can't voters, pollsters, etc., with access to all of the pertinent information, make comparable assessments? It's because of bias! Not because of a conference championship. SC, while gaining interest, is still the ugly stepsister when other potential Cinderellas are out there.
I couldn't disagree with this more. Carolina and stanford have similar resumes, but the conference championship is( whether you like it or not)the big difference. We're not still the ugly stepsister. In fact, had we won our conference title(as stanford did)and finished the same 11-2, we would be ranked ahead of stanford and in a BCS bowl. But we did not and that is the difference.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Originally Posted by Thenardier View Post
Some people can just whine about anything.
If you don't have anything beneficial to add to the discussion get out.


"

whats the point? If you aren't #1 or #2 in the last year of BCS it doesn't matter.

There is no difference between #9 and wherever Stanford ended up."

I agree with what you are saying for this year. The bias in the polls could hurt USC next year though. I know it's a selection committee, but a USC that is 11-1 ranked #9 won't have a chance at getting int, but a 11-1 USC ranked #5 will get more discussion.

Last edited by rioninusc; 12-09-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Originally Posted by rioninusc View Post
If you don't have anything beneficial to add to the discussion get out.


"

whats the point? If you aren't #1 or #2 in the last year of BCS it doesn't matter.

There is no difference between #9 and wherever Stanford ended up."

I agree with what you are saying for this year. The bias in the polls could hurt USC next year though. I know it's a selection committee, but a USC that is 11-1 ranked #9 won't have a chance at getting int, but a 11-1 USC ranked #5 will get more discussion.
An 11-1 USC won't be ranked #9.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

I think it all has to do with the Championship game, that extra game meant everything.

Wins late in the season are the most important for whatever reason, I think that is stupid, but that's another argument for another time. If Missouri would have lost to Texas A&M and we would have been given a shot at the SEC crown and won we would be in the exact same boat as Stanford.

Honestly, we would probably be ranked ahead of them.

The thing is then we wouldn't be reading this thread, we would be reading a thread about how we deserve the title shot over Bama because of (insert reason here).
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Exactly. Stanford won their conference who has a member (Oregon) that came to Tennessee and b!tch slapped the Volunteers all over the field.....something we did not do. Congrats to Stanford.
Actually the game was at Oregon but your point is well taken
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Originally Posted by GamecockinILL View Post
I hate these kinds of responses.
so, you hate facts? its a fact that stanford won the pac ten and got a rose bowl berth. that has been the deal forever. again...they won their ccg..
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

Another stupid fanboy thread.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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so, you hate facts? its a fact that stanford won the pac ten and got a rose bowl berth. that has been the deal forever. again...they won their ccg..
Again. They needed help, just as SCar did, to even reach the CCG. If Oregon doesn't lose to Arizona, Stanford is in the cold. The OP argument has merit. Despite both teams being in virtually identical positions the national media kept lavishing praise on Stanford for beating Oregon, despite the end of the year showing that win was not that impressive.

It goes along way to show how dangerous perception is. Mizzou was every bit as good as Auburn, but even before the SECCG the media had crowned Auburn, because of the perception of Mizzou. You could beat an 0-12 Alabama and it would still carry weight.

Tell me Ohio State deserved to be #2 before they played MSU...
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:44 PM   #38
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

Man. There are too many, just too many factors to look at when comparing how well two teams did during the season.

1st - Stanford has a longer recent history of sustained success than we do. I know you might say they started their run in 2010 and we in 2011, but that weighs in a voter's mind because they had 2 full years of being in the national title picture before everyone started noticing us. And even then, we are considered a "could be contender" and they have a reputation as a contender. And they seem to be a more complete team than we are, like, they dont have more WTF? type of plays than we do nor was their D struggling for a bit.

2nd - You have to look each week at how the top 25 shaped up to understand how they are ranked higher than us. You have to look at who we played and that team's perception that week. You have to look where the undefeated teams were placed and where voters were trying to fit in teams like Louisville, UCF and Northern Illinois at the time. Then you have to look at where they were ranking the top 1 loss teams at the time. Too much to look into, but we were a 1 loss team for 3 weeks before Stanford lost their first.

3rd - You have to look at where we were ranked during that time. We fell from 9th to 13th after the UGA loss and kinda stayed around that area because we didnt have a signature win during that span. We then dropped all the way down to 21st after the UT loss and had to move back up. Stanford was waiting for a loss from the top 4 and were sitting at 5 when they lost. They dropped to 13th after the loss. They beat a no 9 UCLA team and had their big win against an unbeatable looking Oregon team which got them back up to 4. They then loss to a 7-3 USC that had a 3 game win streak and didnt fall that far.

4th - They won their conference which is considered the 2nd best in the land. They are the best team in their conference and we are the 3rd depending on what people say about LSU and Texas A&M.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:13 AM   #39
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

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Originally Posted by ipull4usc View Post
Stanford
Lost to a 5-7 Utah team on the road
Lost to a 9-4 Southern Cal team on the road (currently ranked #25)
Beat current #10 Oregon
Beat current #14 Arizona St twice
Beat current #17 UCLA
Beat a few other solid but unranked teams (Notre Dame and Washington)


South Carolina
Lost to a 5-7 Tennessee team on the road
Lost to an 8-4 UGA team on the road (currently ranked #22)
Beat current #8 Missouri on the road
Beat current #12 Clemson
Beat current #15 Central Florida on the road
Beat a solid but unranked Vanderbilt team

The losses are about even. The big wins are about even, although I'll give the nod to Stanford for beating ASU a second time. As far as other solid teams, Stanford had 1 more solid team on the schedule than Carolina did. Both had a few 6-6 teams on the schedule. I think the resumes are fairly similar, and I'd give Stanford a bit of a nod. However, the treatment in the BCS and the public perception is night and day different. Stanford is 5th in the BCS, we are 9th. I've seen talk saying if there were a 4-team playoff Stanford should get in it. Meanwhile I constantly hear about how South Carolina lost to Tennessee and has no right to complain about BCS, bowl situation, etc. Ummm, isn't Stanford's loss to Utah right there with Carolina's loss to Tennessee? Hell, I guarantee you Tennessee (as terrible as they are) has more talent than Utah. Yet, somehow Stanford gets a pass for losing to Utah and we get treated like we lost to Hammond High School. And yes, I consider the loss to Tennessee an all-timer of a failure that will haunt this program for years to come. But I'd like to see Stanford get the same treatment for the Utah loss.
Their Utah loss was not as bad as the UT loss.....and they have the national name recognition.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:09 AM   #40
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Default Re: Double Standard: Stanford and South Carolina

Regardless of how it happened, Stanford won their conference championship game and that extra game was enough to move them up during the final week while we dropped a spot due to not playing. That is the big difference. You aren't going to hear any nationaly pundits discuss USC this past week because what's the point? Our season was over and we were not eligible for a BCS bowl so no need to discuss a team whose fate has been established. You can worry about next year when it gets here. If we go 11-1 or better next year in the SEC we will without a doubt be in the discussion. We have nothing to complain about
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