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Old 12-11-2013, 09:09 PM   #61
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by GamecockUltimate View Post
Sigh. Good thing games aren't won on paper I suppose, but you are wrong in some categories...
I'm sure I am. The only positions where I believe Wisconsin has the advantage for sure our RB, Oline, and LB. RB because we have 3 future NFL guys at RB, Oline because that is what we do (though our Oline depth is not good), and LB because it has the Big Ten Defensive player of the year and is made up of mostly experienced seniors. For all I know USC could have the advantage is every other category (and I'm positive they do in DE, QB, and depth at WR). We also have the advantage in FB, just cause lol.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:13 PM   #62
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by fridayserv View Post
Zbadger Your Good! Only thing again I think you will agree its way harder in the SEC than this years Big 10 to get 1000 yards. Also Watch Brandon Wilds at 6'2 225, 4.4 forty. He was hurt most of this year but came back against Clemson. The duo of Davis and Wilds great pass catchers out of the backfield. Great at pass blocking and Brandon is just as good as Mike Davis. Together as all around backs they are as good or better than Wisconsin. So from your comments I see Gamecocks have the advantage in more areas. therefore, advantage Gamecocks. Happy Holidays Travel Safe to Florida.
I don't agree on that actually. I don't think SEC rush D's this year are all that cracked up to be when the 2nd best rushing defense has given up 145 yards a game. I believe the teams are better in the SEC, but overall vs rush defense are 2 different things. Based on rush defense rankings, its harder in the big 10 to get 1000 yards for back. I really believe Mike Davis is a very good back, I just think the combo at Wisconsin is better.

There is a lot more to being a good RB than speed. Jeff Lewis on the Badgers is the fastest player on the team, but he never plays because speed does not equal vision, ability to break tackles, elude defenders, holding on to the ball, pass catching etc.

Fortunately we will find out whether it is easier or tougher to run in the Big Ten vs SEC as USC is 2nd in the SEC and Wisconsin is 3rd in the Big Ten in rush defense. Should be a fun one folks.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:29 PM   #63
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

I love this thread! There is some serious stat slinging and discussion!!

Glad your here Zbadger and glad to see a student of college football as well as a true fan. I've learned a great deal about Badger football that I didn't know before. I hope you have gained some appreciation of the Gamecock brand of ball.

I feel it will come down to who protects the ball and who makes the better adjustments. Our coaches have been very sharp since our loss vs UT and it could be the difference.

Watch what the HBC calls on first downs especially following a turnover. He stabs for the heart !! Good luck (but not too good) in Orlando!

Go Cocks!!!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:08 PM   #64
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by catdaddy66 View Post
I love this thread! There is some serious stat slinging and discussion!!

Glad your here Zbadger and glad to see a student of college football as well as a true fan. I've learned a great deal about Badger football that I didn't know before. I hope you have gained some appreciation of the Gamecock brand of ball.

I feel it will come down to who protects the ball and who makes the better adjustments. Our coaches have been very sharp since our loss vs UT and it could be the difference.

Watch what the HBC calls on first downs especially following a turnover. He stabs for the heart !! Good luck (but not too good) in Orlando!

Go Cocks!!!

Thanks, I was hoping this thread would spark some in depth discussion and knowledge of both teams. Watching highlights of USC, I really love Mike Davis, I'm excited to see him in action. Also, I'm impressed with Connor Shaw's ability to protect the football and it worries me greatly.

I'm very interested to see how Wisconsin responds after the Penn State Debacle (our version of the Tennessee game). Prior to the game, Wisconsin did not play a bad game all year. We lost to ASU and OSU on the road in close battles (and of course we were robbed of a win at ASU but I try to bring that up too much because if we play better earlier than that moment doesn't matter) and our team was ready play every quarter of every game all year. Then Penn State happened... Our offense was sloppy, defense was missing tackles and blowing coverages, and play calling was suspect (we abandoned the run really early). So this game is really important for seeing how the coaches and players respond.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:16 PM   #65
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
QB: Advantage Shaw
Huge advantage, USC. Our backup is far better than your starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
RB: Advantage Wisconsin (Mike Davis is good but his numbers are equal to James White, you have no one with the talent of Melvin Gordon)
Brandon Wilds. Great back. I wouldn't trade him for Gordon. The scat backs don't do squat in the SEC. Wilds is fast and big. Get ready to learn.

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OL: Advantage Wisconsin (Do you really think USC's Oline is better than the oline that churns out NFL guys like Wisconsin churns out cheese)
Yes. There is a clear Gamecock advantage. The Gamecock OL can flat out pass block, and they are probably bigger than most of the lines in your conference. The ability to both pass and run block are what give the Gamecocks offense balance, the key to success in the SEC. Your rabbits package isn't going to work against USC. Do you not know that we have been using it for five years? One dimensional pro style offenses are not going to succeed in the SEC. The defenses will just shut down those teams. (see Arkansas)

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WR: Slight edge USC (I struggled witht his one, our #1 is better than any WR you have, but your depth is wayyyy better).
Giant advantate USC.

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
TE: Push (Jacob Pederson is as good as receiver as any TE USC has, and the rest of our TEs are studs in run blocking)
Advantage USC. You will learn Jerel Adams name once the game starts. Hopefully, our QB will scan the field and find them because our TEs were running free all over the place in the Clempson game.

Think Superman and you will get an idea about the physical TE you will see in Adams. Plus, the Gamecocks like to run the three TE package sometimes in the smash mouth mode with a tackle who plays TE. We call your TE claim, and raise you. We call your smash mouth, and raise you. I hope your DL brings its lunch pails.

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FB: huge edgeeee Wisconsin (I threw this one in as a joke, do you even use a FB)
I trust you on this one. But McClaurin is pretty good. We do run a bit of FB packages.

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Defense is tough because its 3-4 vs 4-3 but I'll try
DE: advantage USC (and a big one at that, Our DE's are good at run stopping, but nothing special in pass rush)
USC.

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
DT: push (seeing how its a 3-4, we only use 1 DT, but I assure you that Beau Allen is a stud, not well known, but he is the guy who allows Wisconsin's LBacker to do what they do. Also the backup Herring is a rather good pass rusher which is not easy out of NT position).
Quarles is second in the SEC in sacks, and up there in TFL. Plus, we have two tackles on the field unless it is a pass situation.

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LB: advantage Wisconsin (Borland and a bunch of seniors who are all very good and very active at the line)
WI due to experience. USC due to speed. Experience > Speed.

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
CB: no clue, but i'm guessing USC (first year starting for our CB's, I believe yours are veterns?)
The USC corners are great. Hampton is a likely third round pick. Legree will be drafted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
S: Push (Southward is the weak link of our secondary while Mcevoy is a raw player, Caputo is a stud though)
USC.

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
SOS: USC (This would be closer had we actually won against OSU and ASU as our quality of wins would be similar, but we did't so advantage you)
Ha-ha. We played a weak SEC schedule, but the non conference tilt was tough. USC has beaten two BCS teams already in the non conference schedule.

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Special Teams: Push (from what i've heard, you guys don't sound thrilled about you ST and we are the same, we are solid in coverage though)
We are average. But Pharoh Cooper is a potential big play threat. Doesn't sound like WI has one.
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Last edited by yazoo; 12-12-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:34 PM   #66
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Hell, gimme a shot at this:

QB: Carolina
RB: Push(If Mike Davis is 100% healthy, advantage to Wisconsin if he is not)
OL: Wisconsin
WR: Carolina
DL: Carolina
LB: Wisconsin
DB: Carolina
ST: Push
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Yazoo, Damn your good. Advantage gamecocks. Zbadger really knows his team. Its good to promote teams in a civil way. Here is one Zbadger left off. Our Walk-on Kicker Fry is Advantage Gamecocks. Wisconsin Kicking game is suspect, even though they recently changed kickers. For the record, Zbadger should check out how many players we have in the NFL. Phil Steele the NFL Espn expert stated our Oline including our 6'4 315 pound center, are NFL caliber. Our rookie LB's lead the team in tackles. Great point you made about Dillion.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:41 PM   #68
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

U-Dub, That's Whats Up. Ii agree
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:14 PM   #69
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Wow yazoo, I think you are both overrating speed and overrating how much faster USC is than Wisconsin.

First, I assure you that Melvin Gordon is the most talented back in the Capital One bowl. He is considering entering the draft next year (he is only a sophomore) and a number of people are projected him in 1st round. Considering that RBs aren't valued as highly any more in NFL, that is a huge deal! Gordon is no scat back. He is the guy that people rave about his size/speed combo. I can not overrate Gordon as this guy could have easily gotten 2000 yards this year if he was the starting RB. The reason James White starts is because he blocks and catches better and also he is no slouch. James White has over 4000 career yards and 40+ TD's. Trust me when I say both could play on Sunday next year (really hoping Gordon does not as he will win the Doak Walker next year if he stays). If you wouldn't trade Mike Davis for Gordon than you aren't as smart as I thought you were.

Back to the speed topic. I assure you that Wisconsin's experience at lbacker means a great deal. Chris Borland was Big Ten Defensive POY and he will show teams why. Wisconsin's strength on defense was its lbackers. Young and speedy bodies are not better than a group of 3 and 4 year starters who swarm to the ball and don't miss tackles.

I think I thought Quarles was a DE, my bad, I'll conceed DT (though rating 4-3 DT's vs 3-4 NT's isn't really comparable) so you guys have a huge advantage on line vs Wisconsin

Last edited by zbadger; 12-11-2013 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:29 PM   #70
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by fridayserv View Post
Yazoo, Damn your good. Advantage gamecocks. Zbadger really knows his team. Its good to promote teams in a civil way. Here is one Zbadger left off. Our Walk-on Kicker Fry is Advantage Gamecocks. Wisconsin Kicking game is suspect, even though they recently changed kickers. For the record, Zbadger should check out how many players we have in the NFL. Phil Steele the NFL Espn expert stated our Oline including our 6'4 315 pound center, are NFL caliber. Our rookie LB's lead the team in tackles. Great point you made about Dillion.
USC currently has 29 NFL players with 3 offensive lineman. Wisconsin has 26 and 7 (should be 27 and 8, one player just retired mid season). And all the Badgers oline on Sunday played in the last 3 years for Wisconsin except for Joe Thomas (who is the best LT in the NFL). Wisconsin is known as an OL factory for good reason. This year's batch is no different, just younger. They will return 4 out of 5 next season.

In 2010, Kevin Zietler, Ricky Wagner, Gabe Garimi, John Moffit, Peter Konz, Travis Frederick, and Bill Nagy were part of the Badgers oline. Every single one of those guys made it to the NFL and played on Sunday. I miss that 2010 oline. They once ran 28 straight times against Michigan and scored on 4 straight possessions as a result. It was amazing.

Last edited by zbadger; 12-11-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:24 AM   #71
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Zbadger, here is the the list of Top 20 running backs in college football.
#4 Mike Davis South Carolina
#19 Gordon Wisconsin
It appears the experts understand who Mike Davis play against each week. Look for yourself.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-backs/page/21
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:29 AM   #72
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by fridayserv View Post
Zbadger, here is the the list of Top 20 running backs in college football.
#4 Mike Davis South Carolina
#19 Gordon Wisconsin
It appears the experts understand who Mike Davis play against each week. Look for yourself.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-backs/page/21
You aren't helping your arguement by referencing bleacherreport as experts...it's kinda like Wikipedia, anyone can contribute, regardless of credentials or "expertise" except afaik wiki does have smes and volunteer editors/fact checkers that will clean up/delete the really out there stuff...br doesn't do that
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:36 AM   #73
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Zbadger, Gordon at 6'1 207 is good size, Brandon Wilds 6'2 225 is better. White at 5'10 195, ok, Mike Davis 5'10 215 is better. Both our backs were lazer timed at 4.4 forty's. Again I say put Mike and Brandon in the Big 10, they both will have over 1000 rushing easy. Advantage Gamecocks
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:42 AM   #74
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

But the fact is they have Mike at 4 and Gordon at 19. You would think with all the yards Gordon would be number 1. Its because everyone knows the SEC is the best College Football in the nation. By the way Mike is a soph and projected 1st round draft next year.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:58 AM   #75
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
QB: Advantage Shaw
RB: Advantage Wisconsin (Mike Davis is good but his numbers are equal to James White, you have no one with the talent of Melvin Gordon)
OL: Advantage Wisconsin (Do you really think USC's Oline is better than the oline that churns out NFL guys like Wisconsin churns out cheese)
WR: Slight edge USC (I struggled witht his one, our #1 is better than any WR you have, but your depth is wayyyy better).
TE: Push (Jacob Pederson is as good as receiver as any TE USC has, and the rest of our TEs are studs in run blocking)
FB: huge edgeeee Wisconsin (I threw this one in as a joke, do you even use a FB)

Defense is tough because its 3-4 vs 4-3 but I'll try
DE: advantage USC (and a big one at that, Our DE's are good at run stopping, but nothing special in pass rush)
DT: push (seeing how its a 3-4, we only use 1 DT, but I assure you that Beau Allen is a stud, not well known, but he is the guy who allows Wisconsin's LBacker to do what they do. Also the backup Herring is a rather good pass rusher which is not easy out of NT position).
LB: advantage Wisconsin (Borland and a bunch of seniors who are all very good and very active at the line)
CB: no clue, but i'm guessing USC (first year starting for our CB's, I believe yours are veterns?)
S: Push (Southward is the weak link of our secondary while Mcevoy is a raw player, Caputo is a stud though)

SOS: USC (This would be closer had we actually won against OSU and ASU as our quality of wins would be similar, but we did't so advantage you)
Special Teams: Push (from what i've heard, you guys don't sound thrilled about you ST and we are the same, we are solid in coverage though)
Depth of Players: offense advantage to USC, defense to Wisconsin (Wisconsin will sometimes play 20 players a game on defense, they are 2-3 deep at both dline and lbacker and rotate frequently, I'm actually worried for us next year because we lose a lot of key players in our front 7)
Coach: Advantage USC (Spurrier is very proven, Gary is a guy on the up, got to go with the proven commodity)

So we differ a bit on some of the positions. It's hard to judge another team though just from looking at stats/highlights without common opponents. Obviously we both know our own teams a lot better.

I really do believe our RBs are better though. USC has 2400+ yards rushing this year, which is good, but that includes 500 yards from your QB. Wisconsin has 2000 yards rushing...if you remove the numbers from our starting RB James White.

Also about our defense being small, is that actually true? I'm asking, i really don't know. I've never heard Wisconsin's defense to be small. Wisconsin plays a 3-4 so they do require different weights for positions than a 4-3. For instance, one of our OLB Kelly had to lose weight because he swithced from DE. I've heard people say Wisconsin is slow though that's usually based on Big Ten Rep, but I've never heard small.
I guess you will be surprised when you see our stable of RB.. They are very good. As far as WR go, don't kid yourself with them either. We have much better WR. Roland is extremely talented and has hands like Alshon, Bruce is a constant, reliable playmaker who runs great routes, and Byrd is our burner. If we used our freaking TEs at all they would get much more publicity. Busta Anderson and Jerrell Adams are athletic freaks.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:02 AM   #76
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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But the fact is they have Mike at 4 and Gordon at 19. You would think with all the yards Gordon would be number 1. Its because everyone knows the SEC is the best College Football in the nation. By the way Mike is a soph and projected 1st round draft next year.
Mike is not projected 1st round next year as he can't be drafted next year.

Here are rankings for draft eligible RBs:

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014RB.php

Melvin Gordon is #1, James White is #18

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dra...-melvin-gordon

Melvin Gordon #3, James White #18

And Bleacher report is the worst:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-season/page/5

James White is #7, no mention of Gordon or Davis.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:09 AM   #77
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Zbadger, Gordon at 6'1 207 is good size, Brandon Wilds 6'2 225 is better. White at 5'10 195, ok, Mike Davis 5'10 215 is better. Both our backs were lazer timed at 4.4 forty's. Again I say put Mike and Brandon in the Big 10, they both will have over 1000 rushing easy. Advantage Gamecocks
SEC defenses allow more rushing yards than Big ten defenses, so why don't the both have over 1000 yards? In the SEC only 2 teams allow less than 4 yards per carry. In the Big 10 its 7. So why didn't your RB's rack up more yards or better yards per carry than the Wisconsin backs? You are claiming thing based on perception and not on stats. According to stats, running in the Big Ten is not easier than SEC, its actually harder.

I admit that USC as a team has a better resume than the Badgers and I would favor them, but to claim USC RB's are better or even equal is just ignoring stats that say otherwise.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:09 AM   #78
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
Mike is not projected 1st round next year as he can't be drafted next year.

Here are rankings for draft eligible RBs:

http://walterfootball.com/draft2014RB.php

Melvin Gordon is #1, James White is #18

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dra...-melvin-gordon

Melvin Gordon #3, James White #18

And Bleacher report is the worst:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-season/page/5

James White is #7, no mention of Gordon or Davis.
Mike Davis is a sophomore this year so after next year he can be drafted.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:12 AM   #79
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by Cockypantherfan View Post
Mike Davis is a sophomore this year so after next year he can be drafted.
that was my point...
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:13 AM   #80
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
that was my point...
Ok. There was some ambiguous wording..
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