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Old 12-12-2013, 04:24 PM   #101
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

You could argue he is susceptible to injury. He was knocked out of Ohio St game with lower body stuff. The Penn St game it was less clear.

Personally I wouldn't chalk to much of it, but there is question that he is truly an "every down" NFL back. However, we're not going to force him to carry the ball 25-30 times in the game either.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:55 PM   #102
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
Badgers fan here, I joined this forum so I could get to know South Carolina as I know very little about your team besides Spurrier and Clowney. From the topics I've glanced at, you guys seem to know a similar amount the Badgers so I will try to give you the 411 about the team in as impartial manner as possible.

Offense: Pro-Style, QB mostly under center except for obvious passing down, I formation and Multiple TE sets are common occurrence. Lots of power run plays and use of play action.
Defense: 3-4 with a ton of variation. Expect to see lots of pre-snap movement and many different fronts. In 3rd and long Wisconsin often only uses 1 down lineman. We don't blitz a ton, but we mix and match which 4 guys are rushing the QB.

Strengths:
Running game and RB depth(duh)
Run blocking (also duh, but not just oline, the run blocking at Wisconsin is a total team effort)
Veteran front 7 on defense (2 deep of mostly juniors and seniors)
Big play ability (I believe Wisconsin is 2nd in the nation in plays of over 50 yards behind Baylor)

Weaknesses
WR depth (we have 1 WR)
Oline depth (this is the first year in awhile where we don't go 2 deep at oline)
Inconsistent QB play
Young Secondary (opposite of front 7, only 1 guy started before this year)
Special teams is nothing special (our return game is not a threat to score a TD and our kicking game is merely competent)

Players to know:
QB Joel Stave #2 - Good arm, but consistently inconsistent as he'll miss wide open guys and make at least one really stupid throw per game
WR Jared Abbrederis #4 - he is our #1, #2, and #3 WR, Everyone knows that Stave is looking for him and yet he still finds a way to get open. Superb route runner.
RB James White #20 - I looked up highlights of USC and realized that you have your own version in Mike Davis (arguably better version). Like Davis he has great hands and is relied upon in passing game.
RB Melvin Gordon #25 - White may be the starting RB, but Gordon is the superstar talent. Gordon does not have the hands of White or the Pass blocking ability, but he makes up for it with home run running ability. His speed is good, but his acceleration is insane as he gets to top gear immediately.
TE Jacob Pedersen #48 - The #2 receiving threat on the team, he is Stave's 2nd option when he can't get the ball to Abby. Good redzone threat.
FB Derek Watt #34 - The name sounds familiar because he is JJ's younger brother. IMO he one of most important pieces to the Badgers running game and he often creates the first hole by mauling his man, be it a lineman or lbacker. LB's don't fair well vs him at all.

LB Chris Borland #44 - Big Ten Defensive Player of Year is the heart and soul of Badgers defense. Opponents often remark there must be three 44's on defense because there is no way that one guy could always be around the ball. Expect to hear his name a lot as the guy making the tackle.
CB Sojorn Shelton #8 - the undersized, true freshman is the Badgers only real play maker in the secondary. He battles like a veteran, but makes freshman mistakes on occasion in form of penalties. Bigger receivers can take advantage of his small size
S Tanner McEvoy #17 - I know you guys already know his name. He failed to win the starting job as QB (apparently his accuracy is really bad) so he was moved to WR but then broke his wrist. His athleticism was too valuable for the coaching staff to leave on the bench so they put him at S. He usually plays CF type role of covering the deepest guy. He is still learning the position, but his range is rather impressive. Needs to be better at playing the ball if he stays at safety in future.

How to beat the Badgers:
Everyone knows the best way to beat Wisconsin is stop the run and make Stave beat you. Stopping the run is easier said than done, but getting out to a quick lead is key as Badgers are not good at playing catch up. I expect USC to stack the box and try to put pressure on Stave which actually isn't extremely difficult as Wisconsin is only decent at pass blocking. Of course, if the RB can make it to the 2nd level against stacked box, then there is plenty of room for big plays so the key is gap discipline. On offense, attack the secondary deep. They are young and inexperience so mistakes are very possible. If you guys can protect the QB then you will be in good shape. Wisconsin lacks a true pass rusher, but gets pressure based on scheme as they play a 3-4 unlike most college teams. Give your QB time, and the secondary is yours for the taking.

Bonus note:
The Badgers big play formation is when they are set up for the Jet Sweep. Melvin Gordon (#25) lines up at WR and James White (#20) lines up at RB. Melvin Gordon runs a sweep and either takes the hand off or acts as misdirection giving White a chance of the middle with fewer defenders or Stave a chance for play action as defenses bite hard on run. Another wrinkle is Abbrederis running from the opposite side as Gordon and he actually takes the sweep the other way. Its a misdirection formation that has wreaked havoc on teams this year because of the talent of the players running it. Good news is that you guys get plenty of time to prepare for it so the it will be interesting to see how Badgers adjust.

I hope this helps clear things up about the Badgers, I'm excited to watch them against a good SEC opponent to see how well they match up.
Welcome..and thanks for the info.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:59 PM   #103
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by B-G View Post
Florida
They passed the ball 13 times.
7 until their last two offensive drives in the 4th quarter (came with 2:16 and 0:12 left in the game)


Good call...I forgot all about that and hell, I was at that game. Maybe I should have said, we have not played an offense that was effective and ran the ball. We made good adjustments in that game and shut them down. How did I forget about that game...I am 37 and losing my mind
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:53 PM   #104
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

I'm hoping we do a better job stopping the power run than we did versus LSU last year. That was probably the last really good power run offense we faced. And that was with bigger, more senior LBs.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:58 PM   #105
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Our DLine needs to come ready to play...I think our speed on offence will be the key...If it gets into a grind it out kind of a game it will be a nail biter..
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:43 PM   #106
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
I'm hoping we do a better job stopping the power run than we did versus LSU last year. That was probably the last really good power run offense we faced. And that was with bigger, more senior LBs.
I'm afraid Wisconsin's run game is every bit as good as LSU's run game was last year. That's the bad news. The good news is that the Badgers don't possess LSU defensive personnel. Few teams do. Eight Tiger defensive players were drafted last year. So it's incumbent upon our offense to help out our defense in this game.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:49 PM   #107
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

If we don't turn the ball over, we win.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:48 PM   #108
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Carolina-Beez, I give Wisconsin backs much respect, but they are nowhere near LSU. In size they are close to Florida. LSU backs at 260 and 230 were way larger. Additionally, even so LSU did not win until Conner threw the two ints in the last 3 minutes of the game. Last week Penn State limited them to 120 yards. They put 8 in the box. Ohio state limited them to 110 yards. Wisconsin against Penn State had to bench the starting LT because he was getting beat by Penn States DE. So we already know they are going to play two against Clowney. This is not the typical Wisconsin football team.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:22 PM   #109
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

How SC wins this game: Put Vic man on man with Abbrederis and give him safety help over the top. Everyone else in the box.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:41 PM   #110
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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How SC wins this game: Put Vic man on man with Abbrederis and give him safety help over the top. Everyone else in the box.
That's really about it. 1 Safety to help Vic, all other WR's covered 1-1, everyone else in the box.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:06 AM   #111
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

First of all: Awesome thread. zbadger, I've really enjoyed your posts. You've been classy all the way, and I appreciate an opposing fan who knows his stuff. Cheers.

Ok, enough of that. Let's get to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Friend Bucky View Post
USC Passing offense vs. UW passing defense: Advantage USC - Wisconsin is neither particularly strong rushing the passer or in coverage. Shelton (CB) is our best cover corner, but he is a true freshman.
Let's just cut to the chase. This is why Carolina will win. Spurrier is going to have Shaw and the WR corps take advantage of this weakness over and over....and over.

Spurrier will call the same play over and over until you prove you can stop it. If the weakness of UW is pass rush and the secondary, that's what Spurrier will attack.

UW will get their rushing yards. The backs for UW are too good to just shut down. However, I think Shaw will find open guys enough for USC to score enough points to win, more than the UW running game gashes us.

Let's assume that both offenses are equal. Which defense is better? I'll take the Gamecock defense.

I could see this game being:

Wisconsin: 31
South Carolina: 42
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:28 AM   #112
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Default Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
QB: Advantage Shaw
RB: Advantage Wisconsin (Mike Davis is good but his numbers are equal to James White, you have no one with the talent of Melvin Gordon)
OL: Advantage Wisconsin (Do you really think USC's Oline is better than the oline that churns out NFL guys like Wisconsin churns out cheese)
WR: Slight edge USC (I struggled witht his one, our #1 is better than any WR you have, but your depth is wayyyy better).
TE: Push (Jacob Pederson is as good as receiver as any TE USC has, and the rest of our TEs are studs in run blocking)
FB: huge edgeeee Wisconsin (I threw this one in as a joke, do you even use a FB)

Defense is tough because its 3-4 vs 4-3 but I'll try
DE: advantage USC (and a big one at that, Our DE's are good at run stopping, but nothing special in pass rush)
DT: push (seeing how its a 3-4, we only use 1 DT, but I assure you that Beau Allen is a stud, not well known, but he is the guy who allows Wisconsin's LBacker to do what they do. Also the backup Herring is a rather good pass rusher which is not easy out of NT position).
LB: advantage Wisconsin (Borland and a bunch of seniors who are all very good and very active at the line)
CB: no clue, but i'm guessing USC (first year starting for our CB's, I believe yours are veterns?)
S: Push (Southward is the weak link of our secondary while Mcevoy is a raw player, Caputo is a stud though)

SOS: USC (This would be closer had we actually won against OSU and ASU as our quality of wins would be similar, but we did't so advantage you)
Special Teams: Push (from what i've heard, you guys don't sound thrilled about you ST and we are the same, we are solid in coverage though)
Depth of Players: offense advantage to USC, defense to Wisconsin (Wisconsin will sometimes play 20 players a game on defense, they are 2-3 deep at both dline and lbacker and rotate frequently, I'm actually worried for us next year because we lose a lot of key players in our front 7)
Coach: Advantage USC (Spurrier is very proven, Gary is a guy on the up, got to go with the proven commodity)

So we differ a bit on some of the positions. It's hard to judge another team though just from looking at stats/highlights without common opponents. Obviously we both know our own teams a lot better.

I really do believe our RBs are better though. USC has 2400+ yards rushing this year, which is good, but that includes 500 yards from your QB. Wisconsin has 2000 yards rushing...if you remove the numbers from our starting RB James White.

Also about our defense being small, is that actually true? I'm asking, i really don't know. I've never heard Wisconsin's defense to be small. Wisconsin plays a 3-4 so they do require different weights for positions than a 4-3. For instance, one of our OLB Kelly had to lose weight because he swithced from DE. I've heard people say Wisconsin is slow though that's usually based on Big Ten Rep, but I've never heard small.

I thought you were pretty fair until I read this post. Mike Davis is a beast, my friend. It doesn't get much better.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:38 AM   #113
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by GamecockLawyer View Post
First of all: Awesome thread. zbadger, I've really enjoyed your posts. You've been classy all the way, and I appreciate an opposing fan who knows his stuff. Cheers.

Ok, enough of that. Let's get to it.



Let's just cut to the chase. This is why Carolina will win. Spurrier is going to have Shaw and the WR corps take advantage of this weakness over and over....and over.

Spurrier will call the same play over and over until you prove you can stop it. If the weakness of UW is pass rush and the secondary, that's what Spurrier will attack.

UW will get their rushing yards. The backs for UW are too good to just shut down. However, I think Shaw will find open guys enough for USC to score enough points to win, more than the UW running game gashes us.

Let's assume that both offenses are equal. Which defense is better? I'll take the Gamecock defense.

I could see this game being:

Wisconsin: 31
South Carolina: 42
I agree with most of your assessment, but I find it hard to believe that USC will put up 42. Mostly I agree with the fact that Spurrier will try to pick on our DBs and I would too if I were coaching against the Badgers.

However, the Badgers have faced four good to great offenses like USC this year: Ohio State, Arizona State, BYU (they are a very good offensive team that many people don't know about), and Indiana (defense is beyond terrible, but their offense is quite incredible actually) and the most points that was put up was 32. I just don't think USC will put up more than 30, that's no easy task vs Wisconin even with a balanced offense.

Also, based on efficiency rankings (using Football Outsiders version), Wisconsin is the better defensive team, while USC is the better offensive team. So we have a strength vs strength battle here. So do you trust Wisconsin D to contain USC O more or USC's D to contain Wisconsin's O. I admit, I'd probably be inclinded to bet on USC's D here as the deciding factor in winning its battle. So I see like a 20-10 USC victory as very possible outcome.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:52 AM   #114
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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I thought you were pretty fair until I read this post. Mike Davis is a beast, my friend. It doesn't get much better.
Oh I love Mike Davis after watching highlights of him. He is an all around RB and definitely has a strong lower frame. However, is Mike Davis better than James White? It's a close one. James White is only the 2nd and actually maybe 3rd best RB on our team though. So that's why I think you have to rate the Badgers RBs higher than USC.

I admit I'm putting my Badgers preconceived notions on the line here. Running Backs and Oline are what we do so I'm always skeptic to here that another school's RB's are better. At Wisconsin we are used to our RB's cranking out 1,000 yards behind our big boys like its nothing. But I tell you, we have never seen a guy like Melvin Gordon. Last year in the Big Ten Championship he ran for 200+ yards on 9 carries. He explodes to top gear and than gracefully eludes defenders in open field. We just haven't seen that kind of instant big play ability before which is saying something when you just watched Montee Ball run for 83 TD's.

Maybe we are wrong. maybe we are looking past the fact that Gordon doesn't even start for the Badgers, or that he can be contained (though not stopped) if you completely sell out to stop run. This might be a instance of rose cover glasses. But i've never been more excited about a player at Wisconsin than Melvin Gordon. If he stays next year, I hope you get a chance to tune into some Badgers games, because it will be historic.

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Old 12-13-2013, 12:59 AM   #115
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zbadger View Post
Oh I love Mike Davis after watching highlights of him. He is an all around RB and definitely has a strong lower frame. However, is Mike Davis better than James White? It's a close one. James White is only the 2nd and actually maybe 3rd best RB on our team though. So that's why I think you have to rate the Badgers RBs higher than USC.
To be fair, Mike Davis was injured in the Mizzou game and re-injured in the Florida game. His production dropped off significantly after that. I'd also say that Mike, and all of SC's running backs really, are bigger receiving threats out of the back field. When you look at all purpose yards, it's much more even equation.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:14 AM   #116
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Mike Davis was leading the SEC in rushing until the end of the season. He has had multiple scores from 75 yards and shown the ability to drag 2-3 defenders into the endzone with him. You're telling me that Wisconsins 2nd string back is clearly better than him. Yea, no I'm not buying that. Wisconsin is a better running team than us. Your backs are not better than Mike Davis.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:47 AM   #117
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid View Post
Mike Davis was leading the SEC in rushing until the end of the season. He has had multiple scores from 75 yards and shown the ability to drag 2-3 defenders into the endzone with him. You're telling me that Wisconsins 2nd string back is clearly better than him. Yea, no I'm not buying that. Wisconsin is a better running team than us. Your backs are not better than Mike Davis.
Melvin Gordon also has 4 TDs of over 65 yards (2 at 70 and 1 of 80). Melvin Gordon has more rushing yards than Davis has total yards. Gordon averages over 8 yards a carry. Gordon should have more yards, but James White came on strong the final month and since he is the starter he got bulk of carries. In some games, Gordon even was pulled after the 1st half (games in which Corey Clement, our 3rd string guy got bulk of carries in 2nd half). Gordon acheived 1400 yards of rushing at 8 yards a pop despite not starting and having to split carries with a 3rd RB in blow out games (so he wasn't able to pad his stats). I have loads of respect for Davis, I think he might be better than James White (who is also good at catching passes like Davis), but no I don't think he's better than Gordon.
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:01 AM   #118
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

I don't see Connor, Vic, Clowney, and KQ going out with a loss.
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:22 AM   #119
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

KQ is gonna eat, eat, eat this game.
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Old 12-13-2013, 08:42 AM   #120
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by zoobadger View Post
I guess if you exclude the dozen or so scrimmages when the Badger DL goes up against our own massive offensive line.....
LT Marz 6'5" 321
LG Groy 6'5" 320
C Lewallen 6'6" 322
RG Costigan 6'5" 315
RT Havenstein 6'8" 327

Those are some big ole boys.

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