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Old 12-13-2013, 06:13 PM   #161
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Frankly, I think the Davis vs Gordon/White battle is going to be pretty much a push. Both teams are going to get their yards. Honestly, I just hope Davis is back to full strength by Jan, 1.

I think the difference, at least on the offensive side of the ball, is going to be Shaw vs Stave, or more succinctly: Will Shaw's ability to run the ball and throw the ball make up for the difference that the badgers are going to have on the ground.

One facet of the game where I think we have a distinct advantage is turnovers. We've been very good at ball protection this year. That trend needs to continue.
I know Davis has been banged up, but I've haven't heard anything to suggest he won't be 100% for the Cap One Bowl.

It's been a struggle to run the ball in bowl games. It's hard to believe that we never had Lattimore for a bowl game in three seasons. If I remember correctly, Shaw was the only player on our team last year with positive yards rushing the the Outback. It's a nice to go in this bowl with a healthy Shaw, a stable of running backs, and Pharoh Cooper. I have higher expectations for our running game in the bowl than in our previous seasons.
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:19 PM   #162
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by fridayserv View Post
Gentlemen, let me put is simple, 10 of 12 games Wisconsin played this year was against the bottom 15 defenses in D1 football. Wisconsin Backs are talented and the numbers they have reflect their talent. However when they played against Ohio State a good defense just under our Gamecock defense they got crushed. Last week Penn State defense crushed those same backs. Wisconsin offense has not played a defense like ours.
One thing for sure their offense don't come close to Clemson in talent or speed. For Vic to shut down Sammy 3 years in a row, Wisconsin receivers don't come close to Sammy, Jordon Mathews, the Mizzou 6'6 wideouts, North Carolina or UCF wideouts. In other words Wisconsin has 1 I repeat 1 good wideout. We have played and beat way better. Lastly, to compare Mike Davis stats against the Wisconsin backs stats, makes no sense at all. Its like Mike is playing in the SEC each week against NFL caliber defenses, when this year Wisconsin because the teams they played are down, is like playing High School defense. If you look at the last four Wisconsin games, and compare our last four you will see, Wisconsin has not played the speed we bring on defense and offense. Simply read the local Wisconsin articles about how Wisconsin defense is trying to REDEEM THEMSELF. The mistakes I saw were coaching and talent. for example that huge LT got beat by the small Penn State DE by speed rushing. What do you think Clowney, English, Sutton, Dixon, and Mason are going to do. Penn State played two DE's we play 5. They must face the fact that this is not the monster Wisconsin teams of the past. Nor are we the weak teams of the past. For example our true freshmen linebacker was voted by all the SEC coaches 1st team all SEC Freshmen defense. He also led the team in tackles and only started 4 games. Ski runs a 4.5 forty. Man for man our talent is better than any played this year. Finally, our game is power running, that is why we average 39 minutes per game of ball control. After watching Wisconsin defense, we will do the same against them. Besides those very talented backs can't gain yards on the bench. Its no secret Wisconsin DB's will not be able to run with Roland 4'4, Ellington 4.4, Byrd 4.3, Jones 4.4 speed. Tell me how a 5'11 246lbs linebacker is going to keep up with our 6'6 250 lbs tightends. Mr. Borland is a great defensive player against the run, but we have played better, for example Mr. Sam at Mizzou. Wisconsin defense is about as good as Arkansas, who we put 52 on. Given Wisconsin credit my score is Gamecocks 42, Wisconsin 17 against our 2nd team. Conner Shaw is no loser. Remember Clemson and Mizzou were -7 and -10 respectfully. That only made us play better. For Wisconsin to be -1 is a joke.
Penn State didn't crush our backs, they made us play from behind and so we threw the ball over 50 times. We didn't get many rush yards because of attempts, not because of getting stopped. They did contain James White, but Gordon's numbers were still good against them. If USC makes Wisconsin throw the ball 50 times, then I guarantee USC will win too.

The defense is trying to redeem itself because it played 1 poor game. It's the only bad game they played all year. To base our defense off of 1 game and ignore the other 11 is little silly, just like I wouldn't judge USC from a loss to Tennessee.

Chris Borland has been knocked for his size for the last 5 years, unfortunately for other teams, his size has yet to match his production. For example, see clips from the Ohio State game where Chris Borland went one on one with Carlos Hyde and stood him up twice at point of attack. Also, you guys barely use your TE's in passing game and Borland probably won't be covering them much if you do. We are more likely to put a safety on them.

Wisconsin defense is as good as Arkansas'? Well now your credibility just flew out the window.

Face it, you really don't post many facts to back up your claims. The only numbers you post are claimed 40 times and sizes of players. All throughout college, there are guys who are big and guys who are fast, but that hardly makes for good players. There is lot more than goes into being a good football player than measurables.

I respect USC as a team because they are well balanced, I think Wisconsin deserves some respect for being the same.

Also, I may have been a bit strong in saying Gordon is easily better than Davis. I believe he is better, mainly because I think he's the best Wisconsin back I've ever seen play (and that's saying a lot), but I'm excited to see Davis play and I may change my tune after watching him play.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:02 PM   #163
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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I believe he is better, mainly because I think he's the best Wisconsin back I've ever seen play (and that's saying a lot), but I'm excited to see Davis play and I may change my tune after watching him play.
That is a very polite thing to say. I hope you are not disappointed if our Defense is able to slow the Wisconsin attack. And by slow, I mean do like they have done most of the year . . . limit the explosive plays and cause turnovers.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:05 PM   #164
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Penn State didn't crush our backs, they made us play from behind and so we threw the ball over 50 times. We didn't get many rush yards because of attempts, not because of getting stopped. They did contain James White, but Gordon's numbers were still good against them. If USC makes Wisconsin throw the ball 50 times, then I guarantee USC will win too.



The defense is trying to redeem itself because it played 1 poor game. It's the only bad game they played all year. To base our defense off of 1 game and ignore the other 11 is little silly, just like I wouldn't judge USC from a loss to Tennessee.



Chris Borland has been knocked for his size for the last 5 years, unfortunately for other teams, his size has yet to match his production. For example, see clips from the Ohio State game where Chris Borland went one on one with Carlos Hyde and stood him up twice at point of attack. Also, you guys barely use your TE's in passing game and Borland probably won't be covering them much if you do. We are more likely to put a safety on them.



Wisconsin defense is as good as Arkansas'? Well now your credibility just flew out the window.



Face it, you really don't post many facts to back up your claims. The only numbers you post are claimed 40 times and sizes of players. All throughout college, there are guys who are big and guys who are fast, but that hardly makes for good players. There is lot more than goes into being a good football player than measurables.



I respect USC as a team because they are well balanced, I think Wisconsin deserves some respect for being the same.



Also, I may have been a bit strong in saying Gordon is easily better than Davis. I believe he is better, mainly because I think he's the best Wisconsin back I've ever seen play (and that's saying a lot), but I'm excited to see Davis play and I may change my tune after watching him play.

FWIW, I agree with you way more than FridayServ. You are knowledgable and I respect your input a lot... Just had to interject and drop my argument for Mike Davis... He's a hell of a back and #1 in my heart! :)
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:48 PM   #165
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by Cock Kool-Aid View Post
FWIW, I agree with you way more than FridayServ. You are knowledgable and I respect your input a lot... Just had to interject and drop my argument for Mike Davis... He's a hell of a back and #1 in my heart! :)
I'm all for hearing sound arguments about USC vs Wisconsin. The fact that Mike Davis and Melvin Gordon can be compared to each other is a compliment to both backs.

I respect your opinions on Mike Davis. However, I wouldn't pigeon hole Gordon into a speed/finesse back guy. Trust me, he does not shy away from contact. The highlights from the ASU game showed a great example where Gordon should have been stopped for a loss but instead he just ran over the defender and kept going for positive 8 yards. Gordon's strength is acceleration, but he does not lack in physical ability. That's the reason us Badgers fans are so excited about him. We've watched physical backs like Dayne, PJ Hill, John Clay, and Montee Ball and we've seen speed or finesse guys like James White, Brian Calhoun, and Michael Bennett. The difference with Gordon is that he shows both elements. Montee Ball was probably the most complete back we saw prior to Gordon, but Ball's strength was that he was good in every area, he wasn't great in anything though (except for nose for the endzone, dude would not be denied). Gordon is every bit as good at breaking tackles as Ball, but he adds explosive speed and acceleration that Ball lacked.

I think this clip shows Gordon's skill sets best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MRxQ9dw-ok

It's long so just check out Gordon's runs at 43 sec, 1:33, 5:21, 8:19, and 8:42 marks. Most of his runs showed off his incredible burst, but his runs at 5:21 and 8:42 you get to see his sneaky good power which is why we are so excited about him. Final stat line this game: 9 carries, 216 yards...

Also, in this video the Badgers used the jet sweep formation a lot and the wildcat formation a good number of times. That is not typical of this year's teams. We still use the jet sweep but not to the extreme and the wildcat we used on one play that didn't get off because of penalty. It's possible we might try the wildcat in the bowl game this year, but doubtful due to are lack of depth at oline.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:24 PM   #166
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Davis and Gordon are equally good.. it's the defense that matters in this game.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:53 PM   #167
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

It's good to see some decent back and forth on this site. Hope Zbadger sticks around a while.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:45 PM   #168
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Davis reminds me a lot of a slightly faster Ball. Maybe its just the #28. Both backs are exceptional, key for a UW fan is that Gordon is the back-up. Regarding Davis being a better all around player, that may be true at this point for Gordon but White is pretty good in all phases too. Davis has 32 catches for 342 yards and 0 TDs while White has 37 catches for 292 and 2 TDs. On the ground Davis has 194 carries for 1134 yards at 5.8 ypc and 11 TDs to White's 209 1337 6.4 and 13 TDs.

I bring it up because White always gets the short shrift despite a remarkable career (even in high school he was a backup to his classmate Giovani Bernard!). Here is his tape from his first three years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCyp0eqNmU0

I posted this in a different thread but this seems like the better spot for it. A lot of discussion about the legitimacy of UW's stats because of the perceived weakness of the B1G but that is not really true this year. At least when comparing UW to USC since USC didn't play most of the teams that make the SEC so formidable (and obviously you can't play yourself).

Stat breakdown

USC Pass O
49th nationally. 216-357 at 8.34 per attempt for 2979 yards (248.3 ypg) and 26 TDs with only 4(!) INTs. 21st in efficiency with a rating of 152.39. They have faced defenses that on average rank 47th and give up 218 yards per game.

UW Pass D
12th nationally having given up 2312 yards (192.7 ypg) at 5.79 ypa with 12 TDs against and 9 INTs. Those numbers came against passing O's that averaged 67th nationally and 226 ypg.

UW Pass O
88th. 201-329 2445 7.43 ypa (203 ypg) 20 TDs 12 INTs. 48th in efficiency (136.29). The Pass D's they faced ranked 66th and gave up 233 ypg.

USC Pass D
18th. 2433 (202.8 ypg) 7.09 ypa 13 TDA 15 INTs. Opposing Pass O's ranked 60th at 239 ypg.

USC Rush O
30th. 2463 yards (205.3 ypg) on 503 carries at 4.9 ypc with 26 TDs. The Rush D's they faced ranked 57th giving up 161 ypg.

UW Rush D
6th. 1216 yards against (101.6 ypg) on 380 carries at 3.2 ypc with 7 TDA. The Rush O's they faced averaged 55th gaining 185 ypg.

UW Ruch O
8th. 3396 yards (283 ypg) on 514 carries at 6.61 ypc with 35 TDs. Rush D's faced were ranked on average 65th and gave up 173 ypg.

USC Rush D
37th. 1707 yards against (142 ypg) on 421 carries at 4.05 ypc with 16 TDA. The rush O's they have faced were on average ranked 61st at 171 ypg.


To sum it all up UW is ahead in every category except passing offense. Likewise USC has faced tougher units on average in everything except rushing offense. In both areas the differences are pretty small, USC has faced better competition but not that much better, while UW has the better numbers but USC is not far behind.

Another thing that sticks out is that both USC and UW are pretty balanced on offense in terms of play calling. UW is just much more explosive on the ground, gaining 933 more yards than USC on just 11 more carries, while USC is more explosive through the air gaining 534 more yards on 28 more passes.

Both teams are also strong in both phases of the defense as well. UW's struggles this year in defending the pass have almost exclusively been against tall physical wideouts who are able to make the catch through contact. Despite our reputation we have rarely been beat over the top by speedy guys. Most plays have been made with a UW defender within a yard or in a jump ball. Its not like some years past where guys are just running around wide open. Here are the receivers who have given UW fits this year:
Jaelen Strong ASU 6'4" 205lbs on the year he has 71 1094 7 TDs against UW he had 6 104 0

Philly Brown OSU 5'11" 187lbs 55 655 10. Against UW 8 85 2 TDs (40 yards and one td came on a brainfart of a 4th down play right before the half where UW just forgot to cover him. This can happen at times to UW but it hasn't been nearly as big of a problem as it was in years past.) http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9740672

Steve Hull Illinois 6'2" 200lbs 59 993 9 TDs on the season. 6 105 0 vs UW

Cody Hoffman BYU 6'4" 210lbs 45 727 5 TDs in an injury plagued senior year (he has 248 catches for 3445 and 33 TDs for his career) I think he has been the most impressive player UW has faced this year. Dude is legit, he will be in the NFL for a long time. 7 catches for 116 yards and 2 TDs vs UW.

Allen Robinson PSU 6'3 210lbs 97 1432 6 TDs on the year. 8 for 122 0 TDs vs UW.

No one else has been near 100 yards. USC's WRs will be among the best we have faced (though we have faced multiple 1st rounders this year so it won't be a complete shock) but they are not the most physical guys in the league. That gives me a little hope as a UW fan though I still think Shaw will have some success in the game through the air.

Should be a good game. Hopefully both teams are at 100% and stay that way.

Last edited by Bigdsrip; 12-14-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:19 PM   #169
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Spurrier + Shaw + Bruce + Byrd + Roland + Busta + Jerrel + UW secondary = good luck with that.

Spurrier will probably go pass heavy, so we can't afford to have many 3 and outs... Our D will get worn down quickly by the UW run game if our offense can't stay on the field.

Dial up some ball plays, Steve.

I hope we stack the box almost every play and bracket the white WR a good bit. Knowing Whammy though, will not be surprised if we run a soft zone or man and give the WRs 10 yards of cushion.

I'm ready for kickoff!
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:34 PM   #170
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Spurrier + Shaw + Bruce + Byrd + Roland + Busta + Jerrel + UW secondary = good luck with that.

Spurrier will probably go pass heavy, so we can't afford to have many 3 and outs... Our D will get worn down quickly by the UW run game if our offense can't stay on the field.

Dial up some ball plays, Steve.

I hope we stack the box almost every play and bracket the white WR a good bit. Knowing Whammy though, will not be surprised if we run a soft zone or man and give the WRs 10 yards of cushion.

I'm ready for kickoff!
If WRs are given 10 yards of cushion, Badgers often put White out wide and they are content with just throwing it to him for an easy 5-7 yards and potential for a lot more (I would hope they would do that). I doubt Abbrederis gets a 10 yard cushion, because that is suicide for any team.

OSU and Penn State stacked the box and played man to man on WR's, I expect the same from USC. Make Stave open up the offense, if he fails, then USC wins.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:40 PM   #171
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Davis reminds me a lot of a slightly faster Ball. Maybe its just the #28. Both backs are exceptional, key for a UW fan is that Gordon is the back-up. Regarding Davis being a better all around player, that may be true at this point for Gordon but White is pretty good in all phases too. Davis has 32 catches for 342 yards and 0 TDs while White has 37 catches for 292 and 2 TDs. On the ground Davis has 194 carries for 1134 yards at 5.8 ypc and 11 TDs to White's 209 1337 6.4 and 13 TDs.

I bring it up because White always gets the short shrift despite a remarkable career (even in high school he was a backup to his classmate Giovani Bernard!). Here is his tape from his first three years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCyp0eqNmU0
Interesting take on Davis. I thought of Davis as a more powerful version of James White, but in some ways Ball was a more powerful version of White (with less speed) so I see where you make the comparison.

White should get more love, he is good in all aspects of the game and his pass blocking is especially key on 3rd down. However, White doesn't pass the eye test as much. He is best at agility and making guys miss, but he goes down easier than guys like Davis or Gordon and although he has very good speed, its not exceptional. I think White will stick around on Sundays as a good 3rd down back. Hard to see him as a starter though.

Also, thanks for posting the James White video. 2:52 moment in video is one of my favorite Badger moments that I've witnessed in person ever. Ohio State had gained back momentum until the true freshman White navigates through traffic for the game sealing TD. The stadium just exploded.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:42 PM   #172
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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It's good to see some decent back and forth on this site. Hope Zbadger sticks around a while.
Thanks, I'll stick around until the bowl game and maybe some talk after the game. I won't just run into hiding if USC pummels the badgers. But after that I'll probably be gone until are paths cross again. Hopefully very soon in the future playoffs.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:16 PM   #173
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

White's pro prospects remind me a lot of Terrell Fletcher. 3rd down/change of pace back for close to a decade.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:16 PM   #174
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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I hope we stack the box almost every play and bracket the white WR a good bit. Knowing Whammy though, will not be surprised if we run a soft zone or man and give the WRs 10 yards of cushion.
I really hope we don't run that crap zone giving up a 7-10 yd cushion. I'm sick of that crap. Especially against a team like Wisconsin, we should be able to go man and sell out to stop the run.

The teams are extremely well matched and it is going to be a doozy. Looking forward to January 1!
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:47 PM   #175
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

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Thanks, I'll stick around until the bowl game and maybe some talk after the game. I won't just run into hiding if USC pummels the badgers. But after that I'll probably be gone until are paths cross again. Hopefully very soon in the future playoffs.
One other observation that could be somewhat relevant to evaluating relative schedules.

Craig Fitzgerald was the S&C coach at USC until 2011. Afterwards, he went to Penn State. I have not seen PSU but I suspect the athleticism of the PSU team will look familiar except to a slightly higher level in the Gamecocks. Joe Connolly was Fitz XO before Fitz went to PSU and Connolly stayed here to continue the same highly successful program.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:20 AM   #176
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Is Dan Austin still part of SC's S & C program? Pound for pound that is one strong man.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:41 AM   #177
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

I'm so jealous about how many highlights you guys have available to you on youtube. There might be that many for the Badgers over the last 4 years.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:48 AM   #178
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Badgers - Does Jakarrie Washington getting dismissed from the team hurt or do you have good depth at that position? I know he is a freshman but he played in 11 games..
http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/wisc...from-wisconsin

Also how is Dallas Lewallen coming along?
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:15 PM   #179
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Any state that loves Brats, Cheese, and Beer is alright with me.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:34 AM   #180
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Default Re: Getting to Know Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakemurraycock View Post
Badgers - Does Jakarrie Washington getting dismissed from the team hurt or do you have good depth at that position? I know he is a freshman but he played in 11 games..
http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/wisc...from-wisconsin

Also how is Dallas Lewallen coming along?
He played on special teams sometimes and played at CB in blow out games. It may hurt for the future, but doesn't affect the bowl game much. Fortunately, 3 out of 4 of our starting DB's will be back next year.
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