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Old 12-25-2013, 01:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

Sidney Rice is another that comes to mind.
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by USC843 View Post
I've said this before, and i'll say it again. Its a recruiting tool. You don't want the reputation of begging players to stay (see: Dabo). Nick Saban is one of the greatest recruiters of all time and he always says something along the lines of, "If you give me three years, i'll give you the NFL."

You have to remember that these recruits, above all else, want to get to the NFL. They are just trying to pick the best "ride" to get them there.

The great thing about Alabama is that they can lose NFL talent and replace them with players who are as good or better at their position than many of the other players in college football.

I do not think many other colleges can make the promise that Nick Saban makes without conceding that they will have to take a hit at that same position.
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Old 12-25-2013, 02:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by b381l View Post
After three years, everyone knows the deal.....coaches and players. Some understand that college is the end of the line, but others struggle to face that reality. As much as coaches try, some just don't want to hear it. Why else do so many leave early and end up either not getting drafted or go in the last couple of rounds. I think most coaches will talk to players honestly about their pro potential. But in the end, it's on the players.

yeah, I have to agree. Tyler Bray is a fine example. he left early, and ended up not even getting drafted. now he may have got picked up later, but I do remember him going undrafted.
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by KaneisAble View Post
Also: Ace is a starter. He just bought his mom a house for Christmas. Could he have improved his stock? Perhaps. Would he have helped the team? Absolutely, though it's not as though we had a terrible season. (Though we desperately could have used him on ST especially).

Also don't underestimate the impact of seeing Marcus getting hurt on these guys. I appreciate that the OP was honest about why you would want them back, but it's Dabo-esque to tell players what to do w/ their careers and lives.

Exactly. Ace saw the opportunity, and took it. As far as Tori Gurley, he was far older than anyone in his "class". If he wanted a true shot at the NFL he had to leave when he did, or else he wouldn't have ever gotten a shot. He spent quite a few years of his "prime age" in college.

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Sidney Rice is another that comes to mind.
He was drafted in the second round. While it would've been great for him to stay - RB's and WR's need to go when they can in my opinion. With hit-or-miss seasons (based on the performance of others) it can really hurt your draft stock.

EX: How much higher would've AJ1 been drafted had he been able to leave in 2010, rather 2011?
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:31 PM   #25
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

My biggest question is how much better would the South Carolina Gamecocks be if they had those players (any of them and most of them) stay and continue to contribute to the teams?

I am thinking that SEC titles and NC appearances that we so pine for may be at least a bit more likely. It seems like a logical supposition anyway.
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Examples please.

I'm just trying to think about who you would have had stay honestly.
Ace Sanders for one. If he hadn't have bolted, we would not have lost a game and we would be playing in the BCS. Ace would have been a go to guy in the Georgia game but the Tennessee game especially. The coaches should have gotten in his ear and tried to get him to come back for this past season. But of course when anyone says this, there are those out there who say, "Dabo" for some stupid reason. These certain guys leaving has hurt following seasons for us in the past. Sidney Rice as well, we would have had a better following season had he come back. Ace Sanders would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder and probably on a better team had he came back and we would have not lost to Tennessee either. We need Kelcy back, Vic back and this would help us next year but they will jet as well.
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by KaneisAble View Post
Also: Ace is a starter. He just bought his mom a house for Christmas. Could he have improved his stock? Perhaps. Would he have helped the team? Absolutely, though it's not as though we had a terrible season. (Though we desperately could have used him on ST especially).

Also don't underestimate the impact of seeing Marcus getting hurt on these guys. I appreciate that the OP was honest about why you would want them back, but it's Dabo-esque to tell players what to do w/ their careers and lives.
When did Ace ever get hurt? No one could even get a good lick on him. He really cost us a chance at a national championship this year by him leaving and our coaches should have at least made an attempt to talk him out of leaving.
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Ace Sanders for one. If he hadn't have bolted, we would not have lost a game and we would be playing in the BCS. Ace would have been a go to guy in the Georgia game but the Tennessee game especially. The coaches should have gotten in his ear and tried to get him to come back for this past season. But of course when anyone says this, there are those out there who say, "Dabo" for some stupid reason. These certain guys leaving has hurt following seasons for us in the past. Sidney Rice as well, we would have had a better following season had he come back. Ace Sanders would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder and probably on a better team had he came back and we would have not lost to Tennessee either. We need Kelcy back, Vic back and this would help us next year but they will jet as well.

You don't know how hard the coaches try to keep any player. You only know what's in the media.

For all you know they did sit Ace down and try to keep him. But there comes a point and time where a decision has to be made by whoever is considering leaving. They will weigh their options too. Ace obviously felt like he needed to test the NFL water.

It's not like Ace thought "You know, I should come back to Carolina" and then went into the draft. As for Rice...I feel like any fan who thought he should stay is being to selfish. Sidney Rice was a dominant receiver for two years, what more did he have to prove! He wanted to have a shot in the NFL, and he saw his opportunity. It wasn't like he was drafted in the 5th round. He was drafted in the 2nd round, 44th overall.

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When did Ace ever get hurt? No one could even get a good lick on him. He really cost us a chance at a national championship this year by him leaving and our coaches should have at least made an attempt to talk him out of leaving.
And now we're blaming players from previous years as to why we're not in the BCS? You obviously fail to understand how selfish that sounds. Say that to Ace and see what he says.

Selfish Fan: "Ace you cost us a chance at a National Championship!" :(
Ace: "I didn't cost them anything"
Selfish Fan: "You're right, I just wanted you to stay"
Ace: "I appreciate that but I wanted to make some money"
Selfish Fan: "You could've waited until next year
Ace: "Time is money"
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Old 12-25-2013, 11:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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The old saying goes, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

I believe sometimes, the best thing schools can do, as far as recruiting and personnel changes go, is re-recruit players they already have on their teams.

Yes, you want to bring in the best talent available and players that fit your program or players who will thrive in a system you can run.

A lot of time is spent getting these players into your teams' training, strength, conditioning and practice regimen. Players take time to adjust to the higher level of competition and the speed of the game at the higher level.

So once those players become redshirt sophomores, juniors, and redshirt juniors, seniors and redshirt seniors, they are the personnel getting most of the starts and being trusted in leadership positions and in certain game situations. They have experience and prior coaching to pull from.

Not every team can go out there and recruit top-5 ranked classes and it is hard to forecast some of the positions that will need to suddenly have an influx of players (due to injuries, suspensions, transfers, poor play, etc). When this type of stuff happens, it usually takes place after the season has started but well into the late part of the next years' recruiting cycle - a time of the year that is hard to suddenly go out a grab a few gret players to fill that vulnerable position and build depth.

So sometimes the best recruiting coaches and coordinators can do is to re-recruit players and get them to stay in school for another year.

Of course this can be seen as selfish and it totally is. That is part of the point too. To go into this mode of thinking requires the thinker to put the needs of the school above the risks the individual player is asked to take on.
Then again, if you overdo it, then your program gets a reputation of not supporting the good players dream of playing professional football.

I think the smarter long term course is to staunchly advocate for your players that have an opportunity to play pro ball.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:02 AM   #30
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Tori Gurley
He was either 25 or 26 and was afraid if he stayed longer, it might jeopardize his NFL career.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:05 AM   #31
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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yeah, I have to agree. Tyler Bray is a fine example. he left early, and ended up not even getting drafted. now he may have got picked up later, but I do remember him going undrafted.
As I recall, the knock on him was he wasn't dedicated enough (didn't spend the time in the film room) and he struggled picking up NFL offenses.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:55 AM   #32
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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And now we're blaming players from previous years as to why we're not in the BCS? You obviously fail to understand how selfish that sounds. Say that to Ace and see what he says.
To be fair, I think that point is made by some because our depth at virtually all positions in the past has been so thin that we'd be adversely affected by one or two injuries, much less a guy leaving early to go pro.

As we develop/increase our overall depth and talent level, we won't feel the loss of someone leaving early as much. We need to continue stockpiling talent so that when someone leaves we can plug in another guy without that big dropoff in production.

Losing guys like Rice or Ace definitely affected us, if they'd stayed another year those guys on their own could've made the difference in one or two more wins per year. Just think of the effect on our defense last year if DJ and Devin had left after their JR years...it would've been devastating to our defense. They stayed for their Sr year, gained experience, and even though they potentially lost a year of NFL money, that extra year of development got them a bigger paycheck this year.

The players definitely need to look out for their best interests. But some of the guys definitely hurt themselves by leaving early. Clifton Geathers left early to be drafted in the 6th or 7th round, if I remember correctly. If he'd stayed another year and developed he could've possibly moved up several rounds, which adds up to a big chunk of change.

I'm glad Ace is doing well, and I'll pull for Vic if he decides to leave early. I just hope he doesn't fall to a late round. Not only does that mean a smaller signing bonus (which is where the gurarnteed money is), but it makes it tougher to make a roster. A high pick at most positions is going to get playing time, a lower pick is going to have to win a position that essentially doesn't exist, they have to beat out the established guy. With low roster sizes and no guranteed paycheck, that's really limiting yourself.
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #33
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

I am glad we are having this discussion
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:57 AM   #34
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Ace Sanders for one. If he hadn't have bolted, we would not have lost a game and we would be playing in the BCS. Ace would have been a go to guy in the Georgia game but the Tennessee game especially. The coaches should have gotten in his ear and tried to get him to come back for this past season. But of course when anyone says this, there are those out there who say, "Dabo" for some stupid reason. These certain guys leaving has hurt following seasons for us in the past. Sidney Rice as well, we would have had a better following season had he come back. Ace Sanders would have been a 1st or 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder and probably on a better team had he came back and we would have not lost to Tennessee either. We need Kelcy back, Vic back and this would help us next year but they will jet as well.
If Ace didn't leave, he would have been suspended for the Georgia game. That's a fact.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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"Time is money"
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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If Ace didn't leave, he would have been suspended for the Georgia game. That's a fact.
Please fill us in on why he would have been suspended.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:18 PM   #37
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Please fill us in on why he would have been suspended.
I don't know if the media just never established it or what, but Ace had a good bit of catching up to do in the classroom if he was ever going to play again here. He would've had to take something like 27 credit hours that spring semester just to stay on track. That's basically impossible.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:31 PM   #38
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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To be fair, I think that point is made by some because our depth at virtually all positions in the past has been so thin that we'd be adversely affected by one or two injuries, much less a guy leaving early to go pro.

As we develop/increase our overall depth and talent level, we won't feel the loss of someone leaving early as much. We need to continue stockpiling talent so that when someone leaves we can plug in another guy without that big dropoff in production.

Losing guys like Rice or Ace definitely affected us, if they'd stayed another year those guys on their own could've made the difference in one or two more wins per year. Just think of the effect on our defense last year if DJ and Devin had left after their JR years...it would've been devastating to our defense. They stayed for their Sr year, gained experience, and even though they potentially lost a year of NFL money, that extra year of development got them a bigger paycheck this year.

The players definitely need to look out for their best interests. But some of the guys definitely hurt themselves by leaving early. Clifton Geathers left early to be drafted in the 6th or 7th round, if I remember correctly. If he'd stayed another year and developed he could've possibly moved up several rounds, which adds up to a big chunk of change.

I'm glad Ace is doing well, and I'll pull for Vic if he decides to leave early. I just hope he doesn't fall to a late round. Not only does that mean a smaller signing bonus (which is where the gurarnteed money is), but it makes it tougher to make a roster. A high pick at most positions is going to get playing time, a lower pick is going to have to win a position that essentially doesn't exist, they have to beat out the established guy. With low roster sizes and no guranteed paycheck, that's really limiting yourself.


I understand that completely. Losing players and production like that obviously hurts. But it is in no way a reason to blame Ace as to why we didn't win more games, or make it to the BCS.

No one on this board would go up to Ace, Sidney, Clowney, Gilmore, etc. etc. and say that they are the reasons we did win <enter random game(s)> and that is the reason they should've stayed.

I understand that Ace, Cap, Gurley, Rice, all could've stayed and improved their draft stock and more importantly helped this team. But that's the selfishness of a fan kicking in. Every 4 and 5* recruit has been told that the NFL has a shelf life for all positions. Why waste your prime in college when their is money to be made in the NFL? Why risk injury when you know that your a top 3 round pick? So yes, it's easy to look at Geathers, Cap, Cook and say they messed up leaving early, but they're just chasing a dream. Let em' chase. While it does hurt the team from a depth chart stand point, your talking about someones dream.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:45 PM   #39
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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He was either 25 or 26 and was afraid if he stayed longer, it might jeopardize his NFL career.
I didn't realize Tori was that old when he left.
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:13 PM   #40
KaneisAble
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Default Re: Re-Recruiting Players

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Originally Posted by Rebel4ever View Post
When did Ace ever get hurt? No one could even get a good lick on him. He really cost us a chance at a national championship this year by him leaving and our coaches should have at least made an attempt to talk him out of leaving.
So since he avoided injury during his 3 seasons here he would've avoided injury his senior year? What about Marcus? He left early. Did he "cost us a national Championship"?

Ace didn't "cost us" anything. Placing the blame for our head coach's total brain diarrhea at UT or poor secondary play (and a rare, untimely fumble by our Badass Senior QB at UGA) on a WR who wasn't even w/ the program doesn't make a lot of sense.

Ace did more than enough for our program during his time here. Would I have loved if he had come back? Of course. But I know that's an entirely selfish wish on my part. He's a starter in the NFL and just bought his mom a house for Christmas. I think he made the right call as far as Ace Sanders was concerned.
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