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Old 12-30-2013, 12:04 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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Originally Posted by duff18 View Post
I would have to think that UT got some implicit nod of approval from an outside body - the SEC "and/or" NCAA. Their internal compliance and legal department can look at this until they're blue in the face and give Butch the go ahead, but in the real world, whether a bank, corporation, law firm or any other oraganization, it would be a huge risk and bordering on gross negliegence of your job duties to not vet something with an outside regulatory body, where an incorrect interpratation could be devastating to your organization.

Why on earth would UT risk essentially destroying their program for several years over signing an extra 10 kids? It makes no sense to take that risk, unless you know the outcome.

If they do happen to get in trouble over this, then heads will roll. It could have been easily avoided.
You would assume so, and maybe they did. I can't imagine why the NCAA would give them the nod to do that though, they could easily say the rule states 25 for a reason, the loophole doesn't exist, etc. Because they used ambiguous language, it can be interpreted however best serves the NCAA and SEC if they so choose.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

I'll say this, if UT is allowed to do this, the Alabama/Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU crowd is going to go crazy. I will guarantee you Slive has been hearing it from all kinds of high level people around the league. If Slive sat on this without giving the information out to member schools, I think he may get fired. Look at all the money these schools raise each year to build their top notch football programs, only to allow UT to have a competitive advantage like this.....there are some hard nosed guys running these schools and their athletic departments and they aren't about to let this happen. They'll make the Toomer's Corner tree killing look like nursery school.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

I have said it since he is hired, people will soon find out, Bi+ch is like datboy. He thinks he is smarter than he really is. He is a cheerleader coach.
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

People are aware of back counting and UGA taking like 32 last year, right? We are absolutely safe at 29 this year which is what we expected to sign until only a month or so ago. Realistically we are looking at about 32/33 recruits. We may lose one or two and sign another. So even if we were penalized it would only be for going over 2-3 guys (still, 6-9 scholarships lost).
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:27 AM   #25
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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People are aware of back counting and UGA taking like 32 last year, right? We are absolutely safe at 29 this year which is what we expected to sign until only a month or so ago. Realistically we are looking at about 32/33 recruits. We may lose one or two and sign another. So even if we were penalized it would only be for going over 2-3 guys (still, 6-9 scholarships lost).
There IS no going over. You can only officially sign 25, any over will not be accepted, so some guys are not going to get in, as long as the these recruits have been made aware of the situation, (will sign you if we have room or maybe take a grayshirt) than there is no issue. 33 commits is Rivals number, it doesn't really mean anything. What matters is what is said between the coaches and the recruits.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:46 AM   #26
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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There IS no going over. You can only officially sign 25, any over will not be accepted, so some guys are not going to get in, as long as the these recruits have been made aware of the situation, (will sign you if we have room or maybe take a grayshirt) than there is no issue. 33 commits is Rivals number, it doesn't really mean anything. What matters is what is said between the coaches and the recruits.
You can back-count your EE's from the previous year. We signed I think 21 last year so we saved four scholarships on the 85 limit. Then we had five early enrollees.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

Slive should be fired. I hated him from the start and continue to hate him. A half assed businessman could have done a better job than he has in terms of money and integrity. We need someone that isn't bound to 4 schools to take over the SEC.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:33 AM   #28
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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Slive should be fired. I hated him from the start and continue to hate him. A half assed businessman could have done a better job than he has in terms of money and integrity. We need someone that isn't bound to 4 schools to take over the SEC.
see post # 22
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

Yeah this thread is just a bunch of whining b/c Tennessee is killing this recruiting cycle...

Case and point:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/fo...lass/2014/id/8

Over the last three years the SEC has signed 18 classes of over 25 recruits. South Carolina was one of those times in 2011 when we signed 32 recruits.

I see no issue with early enrollment and other special circumstances allowing more than 25 signings. It's not like other conferences aren't also doing it. As long as you abide by the 85 not too much else should matter.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:47 AM   #30
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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Yeah this thread is just a bunch of whining b/c Tennessee is killing this recruiting cycle...

Case and point:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/fo...lass/2014/id/8

Over the last three years the SEC has signed 18 classes of over 25 recruits. South Carolina was one of those times in 2011 when we signed 32 recruits.

I see no issue with early enrollment and other special circumstances allowing more than 25 signings. It's not like other conferences aren't also doing it. As long as you abide by the 85 not too much else should matter.
do you know the effective date of the 25 limit.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:47 AM   #31
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

Also in 2013 these are the schools that signed over 25 recruits:

Florida 29
Michigan 27
LSU 26
Ole Miss 27
Texas A&M 31
Georgia 33
Vanderbilt 26
West Virginia 28
California 26
Pittsburgh 27
Fresno State 29
BYU 30
Memphis 29
Western Kentucky 32
Navy 28
Air Force 34
Army 39

Apparently there are a lot of "loopholes"
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:50 AM   #32
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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do you know the effective date of the 25 limit.
The Rule
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13.9.1 Letter of Intent Limitation. Each SEC member institution is limited to signing 25 football prospective student-athletes to a National Letter of Intent, Conference financial aid agreement and/or institutional offer of athletics financial aid from December 1 through May 31st of each year. [Adopted 5/29/09; effective immediately; revised 6/3/11; effective August 1, 2011]

I will say that I'm not sure what was revised
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

FSU now has 28 with Featherston committing today. Anyone want to start a thread on that?
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

FSU was mentioned in the original post, and that is 7 less than TNs target.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:22 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

32 is our likely target. Jones said e would take 35 of he could. We might not get Bryant in the end, we lost Lambert, and Adoree Jackson is a huge long shot. Realistically Scott is probably going to be the only guy we add and it isn't a guarantee we get him. We have 33 right now. 14 of them enroll within the next two weeks. One of those other guys is a grey shirt. We can also back-count five from the '13 class. Truly, the only concern would be IF we actually took 35 and that is highly unlikely.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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32 is our likely target. Jones said e would take 35 of he could. We might not get Bryant in the end, we lost Lambert, and Adoree Jackson is a huge long shot. Realistically Scott is probably going to be the only guy we add and it isn't a guarantee we get him. We have 33 right now. 14 of them enroll within the next two weeks. One of those other guys is a grey shirt. We can also back-count five from the '13 class. Truly, the only concern would be IF we actually took 35 and that is highly unlikely.
This isn't counting back EE's to the last class, this is counting back financial aid agreements per Dec. 1st. Who knows for sure, if its exploiting a loophole then it could mean trouble.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:54 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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Per the story that was linked earlier, the only reason they can "count back" is because the timing of institutional aid changed and the NCAA/SEC's rule referenced the former dates. Institutional aid is just one of the three clauses used in their statement, and the dates referenced pointed to that one clause since the NLOI signing period doesn't even start Dec. 1st.

I don't see anything being unfair if the rule was designed to allow a maximum of 25 signees and virtually everyone else but one school is abiding by that.
I don't know if they are going to anything do about it because it is true that you could compare these "aid agreements" to a NLI, but you could also make the argument that are they are closer to a "gray shirt offer." Personally, it think the signing limits are just pointless because their is always going to be some way around it. If they really were serious about stopping over-signing they would stop allowing what we are doing and make sure every team meets their SCHOLARSHIP limits by the end of NSD and not let them wait until August and then you don't even need class limits.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:05 AM   #38
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

I've read a few things since this thread started. I am no expert on recruiting, but the only way this works for them is a combination of players not qualifying, gray shirting players, counting back a maximum of 5 players. After these adjustments, their class can be no more than 25 and their max schollies is 85.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:14 AM   #39
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

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I've read a few things since this thread started. I am no expert on recruiting, but the only way this works for them is a combination of players not qualifying, gray shirting players, counting back a maximum of 5 players. After these adjustments, their class can be no more than 25 and their max schollies is 85.
And assume the NCAA and SEC don't mind him doing all the juggling.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:39 AM   #40
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Default Re: Why I think Tennessee's class of 33 is against the rules

We can sign 25 + 5 back counters from our 14 EE's legally.

I honestly think we are just going to GS a couple other guys and one guy is going to blue shirt.

I don't think the loop hole really exists. We will finish with around 33 on our "commitment list" but only 30 will actually sign on signing day.
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