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Old 01-02-2014, 02:48 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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As a gamecock fan, our defensive game plan almost cost us the game. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, if our Defensive coaches watched those games, show us how to stop the run. It is simple there are 7 gaps on the Oline for the RB's. Put 6 on the Dline. That would have stopped Wisconsin from leading through the hole with pulling guards and tackles. Its easy Clowney was going to be double teamed, in which would give the line advantage to us . I give the Wisconsin DC all the credit for stopping our running game. Would trade for him today. For some reason Whammy when at Alabama won a National title with 4 down and refuse to give up that Bend but Don't Break game plan. I must admit it has worked for 33 wins and 6 loses, but now that Clowney is gone hopefully he will change.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:49 PM   #22
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Originally Posted by fridayserv View Post
As a gamecock fan, our defensive game plan almost cost us the game. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, if our Defensive coaches watched those games, show us how to stop the run. It is simple there are 7 gaps on the Oline for the RB's. Put 6 on the Dline. That would have stopped Wisconsin from leading through the hole with pulling guards and tackles. Its easy Clowney was going to be double teamed, in which would give the line advantage to us . I give the Wisconsin DC all the credit for stopping our running game. Would trade for him today. For some reason Whammy when at Alabama won a National title with 4 down and refuse to give up that Bend but Don't Break game plan. I must admit it has worked for 33 wins and 6 loses, but now that Clowney is gone hopefully he will change.

And yet, our defense held the Badgers to their second lowest point total all year. If you take away 7 points given up by special teams (assuming Minnesota didn't also give up a ST td), our defense held their offense to their lowest point total all year.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Great game guys. Shaw was incredible but Bruce E was the reason you guys won that game. I couldn't believe some of the plays he made. Wouldn't mind seeing him in Green and Gold next year. There were two plays were I saw the trajectory of the pass and started to cheer for the incompletion only to have to sit down in silence as he somehow pulled them in. Just unreal body control.

Would have been nice if Stave wasn't an idiot and slid. We had plenty of opportunities to win it in the end but Phillips is not a Division One QB after the 3 knee surgeries. Could have been a truly epic finish if we had still had the full playbook in the 3rd and 4th quarters. With Stave I feel pretty good about our chances to pull it out in the end, but with the way Shaw was tossing it around you guys probably would have won it in the end anyway. Such a shame that two evenly matched teams weren't able to have a better ending.

I hope all this nonsense about SEC speed has been put to rest. Clearly had no impact on the game. Your WR's ability to go up and grab the ball in traffic was the only real difference (though as you saw our WRs were not unskilled either, we just lack a QB). Two very solid teams, except you guys had the much better passing game. Shaw got a bunch of yards after first contact as well which I felt really had an impact. A lot of 2nd and 3rd and 4 or 5s when he got hit at 7 and 8 but fell forward or slipped the tackle. I saw a bunch of posters talking about his ability to will your team to victory and they were absolutely right.

I was really disappointed in Clowney. Until Stave went out and we had to pass with a high school QB he was a non factor. I saw several of our linemen put him on his butt in one on one situations and our RBs had no problem carrying him for a couple extra yards after contact. Not impressed with him at all. NFL teams will run right over him all day. You can see the flashes but he seems soft overall. How much effort is he going to put in when he has $20 million in the bank? He will be a terror on obvious passing downs but I don't know if a situational player is worth the No 1 pick. UW also has 5 NFL linemen so it isn't shocking that they were able to have success but I thought we would have more trouble on the ground against two All-Americans. I don't think I heard Kelcy's name called all game other then when they were talking about how he had done nothing. On the flip side you guys definitively proved that our passing D was straight garbage. Other than the true freshman Shelton no skill back there at all. Caputo is a linebacker playing safety and Dez just doesn't have a feel for the ball at all. We were very lucky that the pass rush was so effective early or it could have been ugly. Did you guys miss one deep throw all game? Impressive to say the least.

Bottom line is when you guys needed to make a play you made it, over and over again. I felt that after we only got 3 points on the first two drives of the half (when we could have effectively ended the game with two TDs the way we were running it) the game turned. Other than losing our QB obviously. You could see USC was on their heels and those stops gave them new life. Credit to your guys for stepping up when their backs were against the wall. Sign of a better team right there. Also I hate our OC.

Great game guys, again. Disappointed in UW at the end sans Stave. I felt after the first half that it was our game to lose but at the same time you guys made winning plays all day. Hard to feel too bad when your guys were making those circus catches consistently. No fluke there, USC was legit as we all knew. I feel pretty confident that you guys now know that UW was every bit as legit and thats all I can ask for. USC made more plays and thats why you got the W. Hopefully we can redeem ourselves vs LSU to start next year. Good luck next season, maybe we will see you in the playoffs.
See my comments above for my thoughts on Wisconsin.

As for Clowney and Quarles, I think that wasn't so much them but the defensive scheme. I think we didn't put enough guys in the box against your running game. I think the size of our LBs hurt us a little as well. We blitzed at times and left some gaping holes for the RBs.

I think Clowney was more effective than you think. People don't give him enough credit for disrupting an offense. It's obvious he is a great pass rusher who puts pressure on the QB even without sacks. However, his speed in the run game is outstanding. He made a couple of tackles from behind where SEC speed did come into play. I think it was Gordon who ran off tackle or a sweep to the right and Clowney caught him from behind for little to no gain. Even the announcers said that you don't see speed like that off the line in the Big 10. Go watch some of his other games and you can see the effect his speed and tackling can have on the run game. Remember Clowney is 21 years old and has room to improve. I don't think he is as one dimensional or was as ineffective as you think.

Stave going out did make a difference in the game. However, it did allow our defense to start playing the defense we should have been playing all along - putting more guys into the box. In the 4th quarter, we were very effective. I know Phillips isn't a good passer but by stopping the run and forcing you to throw, we forced TOs and got pressure. Even if Stave was in there, I would have wanted us to do the same thing. Stack the box and force Stave to beat us with his arm rather than the run game. I think you could see how effective we could be when we played the right defense (which I don't think we did for most of the game) regardless of who the QB was.

With that said, it was a great game. Despite my obvious allegiance, it was a fun bowl game to watch regardless of who you rooted for. I have a lot of respect for Wisconsin and think they are a few pieces away from being a national championship contender.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Wisci was a very impressive team, one that definitely shouldn't have been ranked 19th going into the game. They're a hard nosed team that lost in part because they tried being "fancy" a few times with trick plays.

They always seem to have a great running game, and yesterday was no exception. Wherever it is they recruit Linemen (OL and DL), we need to start working on that territory. I wish our OL could block like that.

Very impressive lines on both side of the ball, and good LB play.

Vic knocking the QB out of the game likely sealed the win for us. Hope that guy's ok.
Wisconsin.

JJ Watt (Texans Pro bowler), Joe Thomas (Browns Pro Bowler), Kevin Zietler (Bengals), Peter Konz (Falcons), Travis Fredrick (Cowboys), Nick Hayden (Cowboys), Rickey Wagner (Ravens back-up) and from this years line Gory (LG), Dallas Lewallen (who is the starting center but was hurt and didn't play), Costigan (RG), and Hemer (DE) are all instate guys. Watt, Wagner, and Hemer all started as walk-ons.

A bunch of guys come from Minnesota too (Marz, Allen, Kelly). Almost everyone is from the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes region (WI, MN, IL, MI and OH) with the rest coming from the East Coast.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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See my comments above for my thoughts on Wisconsin.

As for Clowney and Quarles, I think that wasn't so much them but the defensive scheme. I think we didn't put enough guys in the box against your running game. I think the size of our LBs hurt us a little as well. We blitzed at times and left some gaping holes for the RBs.

I think Clowney was more effective than you think. People don't give him enough credit for disrupting an offense. It's obvious he is a great pass rusher who puts pressure on the QB even without sacks. However, his speed in the run game is outstanding. He made a couple of tackles from behind where SEC speed did come into play. I think it was Gordon who ran off tackle or a sweep to the right and Clowney caught him from behind for little to no gain. Even the announcers said that you don't see speed like that off the line in the Big 10. Go watch some of his other games and you can see the effect his speed and tackling can have on the run game. Remember Clowney is 21 years old and has room to improve. I don't think he is as one dimensional or was as ineffective as you think.

Stave going out did make a difference in the game. However, it did allow our defense to start playing the defense we should have been playing all along - putting more guys into the box. In the 4th quarter, we were very effective. I know Phillips isn't a good passer but by stopping the run and forcing you to throw, we forced TOs and got pressure. Even if Stave was in there, I would have wanted us to do the same thing. Stack the box and force Stave to beat us with his arm rather than the run game. I think you could see how effective we could be when we played the right defense (which I don't think we did for most of the game) regardless of who the QB was.

With that said, it was a great game. Despite my obvious allegiance, it was a fun bowl game to watch regardless of who you rooted for. I have a lot of respect for Wisconsin and think they are a few pieces away from being a national championship contender.
Fair enough. I would disagree on the SEC speed comment though. That was Clowney speed, not SEC speed. No one sees that kind of speed outside of whatever conference Clowney is playing in. He could play for Alaska-Anchorage and still make that play. UW was able to get to the edge on several plays and our defense shut down the run and quick screen game by swarming to the ball and shutting off the angles. The deep balls you guys had were caught in tight coverage or because Shaw threw the receiver open. The first touchdown was the only one where a UW defender got burned over the top and even that was only by a step. We housed a kick-off by outrunning guys with angles. USC was the better team but speed was not the reason why.

You are probably right on my underselling Clowney's impact away from the point of attack. I guess I was just expecting more after all the hype the last few years. Besides the one play you mentioned (where he was unblocked) the plays he made in the run game were 5+ yards downfield. Our pulling guards were able to blow him up several times one on one. I didn't expect that to happen to a No 1 pick prospect but I most likely am undervaluing the whole package a bit.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Wisconsin.

JJ Watt (Texans Pro bowler), Joe Thomas (Browns Pro Bowler), Kevin Zietler (Bengals), Peter Konz (Falcons), Travis Fredrick (Cowboys), Nick Hayden (Cowboys), Rickey Wagner (Ravens back-up) and from this years line Gory (LG), Dallas Lewallen (who is the starting center but was hurt and didn't play), Costigan (RG), and Hemer (DE) are all instate guys. Watt, Wagner, and Hemer all started as walk-ons.

A bunch of guys come from Minnesota too (Marz, Allen, Kelly). Almost everyone is from the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes region (WI, MN, IL, MI and OH) with the rest coming from the East Coast.
That is the big thing I've noticed about Wisconsin..South Carolina may be DBU....but Wisconsin is linemen U...esepcially OL-U.

I think you also see the benefit wrestling has...being in the midwest, I'd bet most, if not all, of the Olinemen wrestled in high school, and that sport puts such an emphasis on hand fighting, leverage and nastiness (I lived with wrestlers, most have a mean streak in them when they get on the mat).
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

Football is not all about stats, clowney and quarles both had good games.

Wisconsin has a very good OL, but Carolina has better athletes all around. Team speed is definitely a thing, and the sec tends to do it better. I saw a discrepancy in this game.

Where the sec really shines is depth. That's why it's generally very close for a half, then you start seeing scar establish a bit of dominance in the second half. Stave is better but the wisc run game became less effective in the second half, which doesn't do the qb any favors.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Old 01-02-2014, 04:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Hey, keyboard commando, winners and losers come in all shapes, sizes & colors. Why do I smell orange? If not, perhaps you missed your calling.

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Old 01-02-2014, 04:26 PM   #30
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Fair enough. I would disagree on the SEC speed comment though. That was Clowney speed, not SEC speed. No one sees that kind of speed outside of whatever conference Clowney is playing in. He could play for Alaska-Anchorage and still make that play. UW was able to get to the edge on several plays and our defense shut down the run and quick screen game by swarming to the ball and shutting off the angles. The deep balls you guys had were caught in tight coverage or because Shaw threw the receiver open. The first touchdown was the only one where a UW defender got burned over the top and even that was only by a step. We housed a kick-off by outrunning guys with angles. USC was the better team but speed was not the reason why.

You are probably right on my underselling Clowney's impact away from the point of attack. I guess I was just expecting more after all the hype the last few years. Besides the one play you mentioned (where he was unblocked) the plays he made in the run game were 5+ yards downfield. Our pulling guards were able to blow him up several times one on one. I didn't expect that to happen to a No 1 pick prospect but I most likely am undervaluing the whole package a bit.
We can agree to disagree on SEC speed. With the style of game Wisconsin plays, there weren't a lot of opportunities to see it. Wisconsin blew guys off the line with the power running game. Can't really see too much speed in that. Admittedly, our LBs are young and need more size and speed. Should be OK going forward. As for that kickoff for a TD, go back and watch it again. Doe was caught from behind. He just used a good stiff arm to get free and score. I will agree for the most part that speed wasn't a big factor in this game for either team. Doesn't mean we aren't faster but it wasn't as relevant in this game as it might have been in other games because of our styles of play.

You didn't see our fastest player - Damiere Byrd. Two things about Byrd - 1) If you thought you got beat on some balls downfield, just be glad Byrd didn't play and 2) Byrd plays on special teams. I guarantee you Doe would have been caught from behind by Byrd. You have no one at Wisconsin or the Big 10 (as do most schools in the country) as fast as Byrd.

Most people look at Clowney and see the stats. Is it perfect on every play? No, he has room to improve. However, you can't dismiss his impact just because most teams have to use 1.5 to 2 players on offense to stop him. Even if he doesn't get a tackle or sack, you can't measure that impact. Guess we will find out next year. As for your OL, they are good. Granted Clowney is a better pass rusher than run stopper. You got a glimpse of what he could do at the end of the game when you were forced to throw. Doesn't mean Clowney is bad against the run though.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:05 PM   #31
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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Great game guys. Shaw was incredible but Bruce E was the reason you guys won that game. I couldn't believe some of the plays he made. Wouldn't mind seeing him in Green and Gold next year. There were two plays were I saw the trajectory of the pass and started to cheer for the incompletion only to have to sit down in silence as he somehow pulled them in. Just unreal body control.

Would have been nice if Stave wasn't an idiot and slid. We had plenty of opportunities to win it in the end but Phillips is not a Division One QB after the 3 knee surgeries. Could have been a truly epic finish if we had still had the full playbook in the 3rd and 4th quarters. With Stave I feel pretty good about our chances to pull it out in the end, but with the way Shaw was tossing it around you guys probably would have won it in the end anyway. Such a shame that two evenly matched teams weren't able to have a better ending.

I hope all this nonsense about SEC speed has been put to rest. Clearly had no impact on the game. Your WR's ability to go up and grab the ball in traffic was the only real difference (though as you saw our WRs were not unskilled either, we just lack a QB). Two very solid teams, except you guys had the much better passing game. Shaw got a bunch of yards after first contact as well which I felt really had an impact. A lot of 2nd and 3rd and 4 or 5s when he got hit at 7 and 8 but fell forward or slipped the tackle. I saw a bunch of posters talking about his ability to will your team to victory and they were absolutely right.

I was really disappointed in Clowney. Until Stave went out and we had to pass with a high school QB he was a non factor. I saw several of our linemen put him on his butt in one on one situations and our RBs had no problem carrying him for a couple extra yards after contact. Not impressed with him at all. NFL teams will run right over him all day. You can see the flashes but he seems soft overall. How much effort is he going to put in when he has $20 million in the bank? He will be a terror on obvious passing downs but I don't know if a situational player is worth the No 1 pick. UW also has 5 NFL linemen so it isn't shocking that they were able to have success but I thought we would have more trouble on the ground against two All-Americans. I don't think I heard Kelcy's name called all game other then when they were talking about how he had done nothing. On the flip side you guys definitively proved that our passing D was straight garbage. Other than the true freshman Shelton no skill back there at all. Caputo is a linebacker playing safety and Dez just doesn't have a feel for the ball at all. We were very lucky that the pass rush was so effective early or it could have been ugly. Did you guys miss one deep throw all game? Impressive to say the least.

Bottom line is when you guys needed to make a play you made it, over and over again. I felt that after we only got 3 points on the first two drives of the half (when we could have effectively ended the game with two TDs the way we were running it) the game turned. Other than losing our QB obviously. You could see USC was on their heels and those stops gave them new life. Credit to your guys for stepping up when their backs were against the wall. Sign of a better team right there. Also I hate our OC.

Great game guys, again. Disappointed in UW at the end sans Stave. I felt after the first half that it was our game to lose but at the same time you guys made winning plays all day. Hard to feel too bad when your guys were making those circus catches consistently. No fluke there, USC was legit as we all knew. I feel pretty confident that you guys now know that UW was every bit as legit and thats all I can ask for. USC made more plays and thats why you got the W. Hopefully we can redeem ourselves vs LSU to start next year. Good luck next season, maybe we will see you in the playoffs.
Thanx Bigdsrip
And congrats to you as well on a great season also. Y'all have a hell
of a program up there and represented well yesterday. The big play thing
has been the M.O. of this team the last three years in the Bowl games
we played. Not so much just big plays here and there, but plays made
at crucial times where if we didn't make them, the game could have
easily went the other way. As a loooong time Gamecock fan, I've seen
my share of the other side of that too often, so I"m enjoying this recent
run of luck against some of the bigger named programs in the country.
Nebraska, Michigan and now Wisconsin. I hope you're right and we will
see each other in the playoffs next season. ... our teams gave the
crowd in Orlando their money's worth yesterday, and I'm sure it would be
that way again, if we do end up matched up again next season.

Good Luck next season bruh !

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Old 01-02-2014, 05:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

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I was impressed with the sportmanship their players showed on their field. Can't tell you how many times I saw one of their players helping one of our guys up after a tackle. Especially #44 Borland. Kid was one of the first to say something to Mike Davis after he got injured.

This

I picked up on this a great deal and have noticed it in many bowl games this year. Hopefully these new players headed to the NFL will change the sterotypes of what most people think NFL players are about. You can be competitive but show class at the same time.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:22 PM   #33
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

It was a very entertaining game to watch. Only out done by the Rose Bowl in my opinion.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:39 PM   #34
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

I can see why you hate your OC. I felt like he repeatedly tried to force the pass when our defense clearly had zero answer for the Wisky run game. Honestly, I think if he runs it until we stop it and only throws when truly necessary, Wisky may have won that game, even without Stave.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roosterboy View Post
That is the big thing I've noticed about Wisconsin..South Carolina may be DBU....but Wisconsin is linemen U...esepcially OL-U.

I think you also see the benefit wrestling has...being in the midwest, I'd bet most, if not all, of the Olinemen wrestled in high school, and that sport puts such an emphasis on hand fighting, leverage and nastiness (I lived with wrestlers, most have a mean streak in them when they get on the mat).
You are so right! Wrestling can vastly improve all of those skills mentioned including foot work and balance.

One of the best NCAA wrestlers was 2 time hwt champ Stephen Neal, who was also the last one to defeat Brock Lesnar in college wrestling, btw. With no college football experience he earned a starting guard spot on 3 NE Patriot Super Bowl winning teams. I thought that was rather impressive.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

Love the Badgers to whip up on buckeyes next year. They're run game smack um in the mouth. It was a great game , great events for fans both schools did their conferences proud. Last time we played in the Capital One I still remember the harsh comments from Bo P and Martinez , Poor sports. Respect was shown yesterday by all.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurticus View Post


I'm an Old Dude, with Old Habits.

I learned to type as a Junior in High School while I helped out on the
School paper and Anual Staff. Learned on the old manual typewriters
at first, but also got to use Electic Typewiters that were "fairly New".
Those are pretty much like Computer Keyboards today, with the ENTER
KEY being the "RETURN" replacing the old manual lever.

I had forgotten pretty much how to type when I got my first Computer
and got on the net, and I bought a typing program to re-learn how to
type..... when it all started coming back to me pretty quickly, I guess
that old habit of hitting the Return (ENTER) key when you got to the
edge of the page kicked in. ..... Now, when I type on message boards,
I just hit the ENTER key when the Cursor gets close to the edge of the
post screen out of habit.
Thx Spurt...one fot he great mysteries of CT has been solved!
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:34 PM   #38
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

You guys are very classy USC. Congrats on a great game.

It a shame Stave got knocked out (his fault for being stupid and not sliding) and we missed out on what I believe would have truly been an epic finish, but I believe USC still would have won because Connor Shaw and those WRs were not going to be denied victory. That 4th and 7 catch was incredible.

I'm happy Wisconsin stuck with what we were good at and that Gordon and White didn't disappoint. We didn't shy away from running right at your dline at all. I think your youth at Lbacker and a 4-2-5 scheme definitely hurts against our style of play because if our line wins the battle in the trenches, there is lots of room to run in the back end. Credit to your secondary for open field tackles though because they prevented 10 yard gains from becoming 40 or 50 yard ones. I've never seen Gordon tackled in the secondary as much.

Clowney was disruptive, but he definitely needs to improve in the run game. He made one great play against the run in the stop of Gordon when Wisconsin tried running opposite side of him and leaving him unblocked (foolish play). Other than that all his damage was in pass game and mostly against Phillips and his ineptitude. There was one play though in the red zone when he beat 2 blockers and forced Stave to throw it away that made me go wow. I actually think Clowney could really benefit another year in college to improve that run defense aspect because players receive more hands on teaching in the college level. Of course, he will get paid by going to the draft so that is obviously the smarter choice.

I wanted to see more of Mike Davis, but with your passing game being as effective as it was there was no need to run it much.

What is your opinion on Joel Stave? He is getting a lot of hate from Wisconsin fans for his inconsistency. My opinion is that the offense moved well with him and even though he isn't a great passer, he is at least a threat to throw (unlike Curt Phillips). I believe he was also 5/6 on 3rd down passing in the bowl game. I think many Wisconsin fans are too caught up with the recent play of Russell Wilson and Scott Tolzein who were excellent college QBs. Many are forgetting that Stave is only a RS Sophomore and this was his first full year of starting. I believe that if Stave is not the starting QB next season, then that means the player who beat him will surely be something special because it will be Stave's job to lose. Also very excited for the Melvin Gordon and Corey Clement (#6 who rushed for 32 yards on the one wildcat play) combo next year because they will be more talented than this year's record setting duo of Gordon/White.

Congrat again on victory. I feel no shame in losing to a classy program that has a bright future.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

Thanks, zbadger but there's no way Clowney should stay another year. Check his last two years if play.

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Old 01-03-2014, 01:59 AM   #40
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Default Re: Tip of the hat to Wisconsin

Nothing but respect for the Badgers, they are a heck of a program, well coached with a lot of talented players. We really had to earn that win.

I spent some time on one of the Bucky Badger boards and found their fans to be very knowledgeable and pretty good people too, apart from one joker who is still scolding us for the Civil War, but you know every school's got a few of those. Been to Madison too, great town.

Good luck next year to Wisconsin, I would pull for you guys against any other BIG 10 team.
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