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Old 01-23-2014, 12:50 AM   #41
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

Its not the Coach, its the mindset of the public. The football and baseball teams are so strong Basketball has over the past 5 years taken a hit. This coach was invited to Russia over the Summer to Coach the US Team. Trust me we need to stop all the crazy talk and find him some talent. It took Spurrier 4 years, give coach Martin the same. Think about it. Every kid in the Southeast know of our Football team. We now must help reset the mindset of those potential recruits to do in basketball what Gilmore, Lattimore, Jeffery, Shaw did for Football. If I had a relative that played basketball and could help, I would call the Coach and make sure he knew about him. Lets all us Gamecock supporters do the same. There are rules regarding contacting players, so just send a message to the coach, and let them handle it. Tony Kitchens the 7 footer from aiken was a great find by a former student. Its time to help the team. For example the football team is known as DBU. That is a mindset. Some call it Swag! Well lets start a list of players here in South Carolina for the basketball team.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:15 PM   #42
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

Right now record isn't good.
Talent is better from last year...but they play like freshman...play real well for about five minutes, then go completely cold and lose focus for 5 minutes.

honestly, the effort is better this year, and we have a star in the making in Sindarius Thornwell, and if Demetrius Henry can ever stay out of foul trouble, I think he can be a viable option in the low post..and a lot of people overlook the production and Kacinas..not all the points, but gets rebounds, does good spacing and is a good role-player.

We still lack a true, distributing point guard and a solid slasher to cut up a zone..and also a consistent three-point threat (Brenton Williams ain't it, and I'm kind of done with his me-first attitude and not playing defense). That I think is coming with Temarcus Blanton (slash and 3) and Marcus Stroman (a true PG).

And how knows, maybe Justin McKie will develop into a 3-point threat and Reggie Theus will be a slasher for us next year.

I'm not opposed to Martin's coachign style. It can be shocking to people who aren't familiar with the background a lot of players come from today. What Martin says is no different than what a lot of these guys hear day in, day out. Plus, have any of these people ever been to a pickup game on a blacktop? You won't believe some of the things you hear there. What Martin said is tame to what these guys hear.

Martin is a very good coach...wants a tough, physical team and right now they go through spells where they play soft. Give Martin time...it wouldn't be fixed in just the second year...and we may not see tournament until year 4...if we don't see at least contention for the dance by year 4, then we might want to start looking elsewhere...but for now, I'm behind Martin and this program.

A lot of these "fans" have no idea what terrible shape Darrin Horn left this program in.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

We were in such a bind with talent and numbers that Coach Martin had to take guys that are not going to be ready now. The players that he brought in this year, with the exception of Thornwell, are the kinds of players that go to established programs, sit on the bench for a year or two in backup roles and by their 3rd or 4th year they are ready to go. The Kentuckys, Dukes and Kansases of the basketball world recruit freshmen that play immediately, but even those guys struggle as freshmen. I'm tired of fans pointing to those schools and say well they win with freshmen. Their 1st year players are 5* rated that join a team full of 5* players and become a piece to a team that is already loaded. We are going to have to be patient and hope that Coach Martin will be too!
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:28 PM   #44
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

We have been in a 40 year decline. It's refreshing to read a board that discusses the positive things we are seeing. Other boards are ready for our team to be great at our next game. We were patience with football and we should do the same for Coach Martin.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:50 PM   #45
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

Honestly? Our talent level is pretty bad, especially in the front court. We don't really have anyone we can really count on down there. PG is an issue too. Haven't had a really good one that could take care of the BB since Downey. Defensively, we have virtually no talent. Our defense is to foul. So I don't know where we go from here. Keep practicing, get better players. That is all that we can do right now.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:05 PM   #46
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

It is a blackeye when you consider all the resources that have been thrown at the program. One of the best facilities in the country and its a waste. Marshall should have been our coach a long time ago. Simple as that. To think otherwise is assinine...misspelling intentional.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:12 PM   #47
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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It is a blackeye when you consider all the resources that have been thrown at the program. One of the best facilities in the country and its a waste. Marshall should have been our coach a long time ago. Simple as that. To think otherwise is assinine...misspelling intentional.
If Gregg Marshall would have gotten the job back when Hyman hired Horn we would not be having this conversation. Folks are just going to have to give it at least 2 more years. Martin is not a miracle worker and cannot change chicken sh!t into chicken salad overnight. Go ahead and be prepared for another lean year next year.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:18 PM   #48
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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If Gregg Marshall would have gotten the job back when Hyman hired Horn we would not be having this conversation. Folks are just going to have to give it at least 2 more years. Martin is not a miracle worker and cannot change chicken sh!t into chicken salad overnight. Go ahead and be prepared for another lean year next year.
I mean we can't say that Marshall would have turned things around here. He has impressed me at Wichita State but we didn't have the luxury of knowing what he would accomplish at Wichita State. All we had to go on was his record at Winthrop which included no NCAA tournament wins. Knowing what we knew then Marshall wouldn't have been my top choice. Horn wasn't up there either though. It is what it is and now we have Frank, which is a big time hire for our program. I see progress, but you're right. He's not outrecruiting the major schools around us, so it's going to take time to build this program up.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:22 PM   #49
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Originally Posted by ReadR00ster View Post
Honestly? Our talent level is pretty bad, especially in the front court. We don't really have anyone we can really count on down there. PG is an issue too. Haven't had a really good one that could take care of the BB since Downey. Defensively, we have virtually no talent. Our defense is to foul. So I don't know where we go from here. Keep practicing, get better players. That is all that we can do right now.
You just don't understand that it takes time to develop talent. Ringer and Henry were top 25 in their position and Henry was top 100 overall. For you to say there is no talent in the post is just asinine considering we're talking about underdeveloped freshmen and sophomore going up against mainly juniors and seniors in the post. Everything you're saying comes back to development from a basketball standpoint to a physical standpoint. Get a freakin grip man.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:25 PM   #50
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Originally Posted by rrsandersjr View Post
We were in such a bind with talent and numbers that Coach Martin had to take guys that are not going to be ready now. The players that he brought in this year, with the exception of Thornwell, are the kinds of players that go to established programs, sit on the bench for a year or two in backup roles and by their 3rd or 4th year they are ready to go. The Kentuckys, Dukes and Kansases of the basketball world recruit freshmen that play immediately, but even those guys struggle as freshmen. I'm tired of fans pointing to those schools and say well they win with freshmen. Their 1st year players are 5* rated that join a team full of 5* players and become a piece to a team that is already loaded. We are going to have to be patient and hope that Coach Martin will be too!
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:48 PM   #51
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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I mean we can't say that Marshall would have turned things around here. He has impressed me at Wichita State but we didn't have the luxury of knowing what he would accomplish at Wichita State. All we had to go on was his record at Winthrop which included no NCAA tournament wins. Knowing what we knew then Marshall wouldn't have been my top choice. Horn wasn't up there either though. It is what it is and now we have Frank, which is a big time hire for our program. I see progress, but you're right. He's not outrecruiting the major schools around us, so it's going to take time to build this program up.
Winthrop beat Notre Dame not too long ago in the first round of the tourney when he was still there
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:15 PM   #52
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Winthrop beat Notre Dame not too long ago in the first round of the tourney when he was still there
Ahh you're right... so he had one win. Still not much of a difference from what Horn accomplished in my opinion. I still didn't like the idea of hiring him then. I just wish we had known then what we know now.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:30 PM   #53
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

We suck, and Auburn is desperately trying to out-Gamecock us by going winless in the SEC. Who will it be!?

STAY TUNED.


My guess, Auburn and USC split the series as their only SEC wins of the season.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:05 AM   #54
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Honestly? Our talent level is pretty bad, especially in the front court. We don't really have anyone we can really count on down there. PG is an issue too. Haven't had a really good one that could take care of the BB since Downey. Defensively, we have virtually no talent. Our defense is to foul. So I don't know where we go from here. Keep practicing, get better players. That is all that we can do right now.
Hate to say it, but the devan Downey point guards was what killed gamecock basketball. He was a great basketball player, but a pg is supposed to pass the ball, Downey, Kelly, etc.. Didn't. Aaron Lucas is about the last true PG we have had
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:11 AM   #55
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Ahh you're right... so he had one win. Still not much of a difference from what Horn accomplished in my opinion. I still didn't like the idea of hiring him then. I just wish we had known then what we know now.
Nope, big difference. Horn had the luxury of coaching at a top 30-35 program all-time(NCAA tourney appearances), and following a successful coach in Dennis Felton. Greg Marshall didn't have that luxury. He built that program from scratch. Took Winthrop to 7 NCAA's, including 5 straight. Beat Notre Dame, and should've won as a 15 seed over Tennessee the year before. All you had to do is look at the resumes between Horn and Marshall to see who would be more successful.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:49 AM   #56
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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Hate to say it, but the devan Downey point guards was what killed gamecock basketball. He was a great basketball player, but a pg is supposed to pass the ball, Downey, Kelly, etc.. Didn't. Aaron Lucas is about the last true PG we have had
No it wasn't, because when we had Downey he was at least not turning the ball over left and right. THAT'S what is killing us.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:53 AM   #57
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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You just don't understand that it takes time to develop talent. Ringer and Henry were top 25 in their position and Henry was top 100 overall. For you to say there is no talent in the post is just asinine considering we're talking about underdeveloped freshmen and sophomore going up against mainly juniors and seniors in the post. Everything you're saying comes back to development from a basketball standpoint to a physical standpoint. Get a freakin grip man.
If they are top 25 in their position than someone screwed up the evaluations. They have no game. They were recruited because one is tall an lanky and one is tall and thick. They're air-balling layups for crying out loud. Henry is shooting 19% from the foul line. I could do better with my eyes closed. That is the way it is with recruiting sometimes you are going hit and sometimes you miss.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:57 AM   #58
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

it's quite simple. We need more talent. Can anyone name a player on USC's roster that would start for any other team in the SEC or ACC ( other than Thornwell)? Coach is working on that....it will get better.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:02 AM   #59
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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If they are top 25 in their position than someone screwed up the evaluations. They have no game. They were recruited because one is tall an lanky and one is tall and thick. They're air-balling layups for crying out loud. Henry is shooting 19% from the foul line. I could do better with my eyes closed. That is the way it is with recruiting sometimes you are going hit and sometimes you miss.
It's pretty clear you just don't understand how this works. Most big men coming out of high school are not physically equipped to play meaningful minutes at the level of competition we face. Most high school big men come into college and immediately help on the defensive side of the floor more than the offensive side of the floor. It's the nature of the beast. You have to get these guys into weight training and conditioned to play physical SEC ball. On the flip side everyone is learning a new offense, they are learning what it takes to make Frank happy, they are adjusting to life on their own. There is a lot that happens to a freshman outside of just basketball. Development takes time. It doesn't mean there is no talent. Get a grip and quit bashing our players.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:03 AM   #60
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Default Re: Can we be honest about the state of our bball program right now?

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it's quite simple. We need more talent. Can anyone name a player on USC's roster that would start for any other team in the SEC or ACC ( other than Thornwell)? Coach is working on that....it will get better.
The team is young. It's not like we are going out and recruiting only one and done players. That doesn't mean that there is not enough talent. It takes time to develop what you've got. Frank was successful at Kansas State because he was able to develop talent and mix it in with some great players.
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